7.99 for plantoids??!!

[Adijedi]

Final argument before I go eat food:

I'm buying the plants, I think the price is reasonable, and I hope for future cosmetic DLC that add ships (which are not cheap to model) . And I hope and expect that sales numbers for the plant DLC shall prove me to be in the majority. Bye bye.

 

[Luckless]

I must admit that the majority of my willingness to buy Paradox's products has come mostly out of a desire to support them with the hopes that they improve rather than being overly impressed with the value of what I've received. The products have been highly hit and miss.

EU and CK have been decent and engaging. HOI has been a bit of a mess, and Stellaris has been terrible so far in my view with so little attention to how the game actually plays out. As a user I feel blind, with little to no feed back on what I'm doing, questionable 'strategy', poor intel, infuriating UI elements (But HOI4 takes the cake for infuriating UI, especially for the Air War), and generally awkward unpolished feeling.

Stellaris is a game that feels like it was only ever played by the developers themselves in a community of Yes-men before being thrown to the users.


Coming into the community and saying some cosmetic elements applied to a gong-show of a game would TOTALLY be worth $20... yeah, no. This hasn't encouraged me to want to give the company a dime in the future. This goes towards convincing me that the company doesn't care about its user base, and is run by beancounters and spreadsheets rather than anyone actively engaged with the games themselves.


As for the argument of "Don't be cheap, it is the cost of a meal". Well you know what? I was going to head home to make a lunch today, but I think instead I'll go buy myself a Montreal smoked meat sandwich on rye bread, with a side of sweet potato fries from one of my favourite restaurants. When customers made comments about the offerings of sauces earlier this summer when they changed up their menu, we got better sauces rather than a lecture about how we should be grateful to not be paying more for it. I'll consider that Money well Spent.

 

[Apollo1784]

If we just go about "manmonths spent" and compare to pricing we've done previously on other games, then 7.99$ is extremely cheap..

If 7.99$ does not work as a price point for a species pack with new ships, stations etc, then I doubt we'll ever make another..

Do you guys try to get your fans to hate you?

 

[Kinkness]

It's very simple: This is the price point we determined that we need to charge in order for species packs to be worthwhile for us to do (creating ship sets is extremely labor intensive). If you don't think it's worth the money, then don't buy it. If enough people vote with their wallet this way, we'll likely not make any further species packs and put our graphical resources into other areas of the game instead. Of course, none of this affects other content for Stellaris such as expansions, which we'll produce whether Plantoids does well or not.

I would prefer to see the art team do something more.. productive. Obviously the art team can only ever do cosmetic things. (That's what art is), but.. New buildings? Those need art.. New events? Those need art. New weapons and hull types for ships already in the game? Those need art. How about new ships in general? Those need art as well. All of those I'd pay 8$ for. New tech that needs art as well, and how about new planet types. Those need art. Plenty of things the art team and dev team can be doing together to bring something new that expands on things the game sorely lacks, rather than just giving us a cosmetic change and nothing really new in a game a majority of people have voiced feels... bland and empty.

The difference is that they are new. Not just cosmetic changes to things we already have. That's a huge difference for many people. Especially those who will never play plantoids they get almost nothing out of it.

 

[Mr Drone]

Not here too argue. I gave reasons that were voiced by many at release of Stellaris, and how I feel. I am still supporting Stellaris, just not over priced cosmetic DLCs.

If Stellaris dev team start coming close to matching what I'd learned to expect from Paradox, then they have nothing too worry about, and that's honestly not asking much.

As such however.... They did promote this game as a grand strategy, which it is not, it's less of a grand strategy than Gal Civ III, and nobody considers that a "Grand strategy" Strategy sure, but not a grand strategy, they also compared most of it too CK 2, and EU IV, which it is not.. they copied maybe.. what? 5 things those games did, threw out everything that actually made those games great, and tacked on shoddy programming.

Hell they even said Stellaris was going to be one of the easiest moddable paradox games too date at one point... It's one of the hardest due too all the backwards ways they did things. Their code can't even follow a simple algorithm of 2 resources going into 1 building. (Go look at how much trouble the modder of the ALpha mod is having in terms of having to find work arounds for even the easiest of things which should be no problem).

yes people are being harsh, perhaps I'm being too harsh in some area's, but that isn't why things are going south for Stellaris.

You're absolutely free to form an opinion and voice it, whether or not the opinion is correct. Know tho, that the way how you represent the game will change how people perceive it.

How people perceive the game has an effect on how well the base game will continue to sell and how well future DLC will sell. DLC that doesn't sell well simply means not more DLC because the devs know they won't make their money back.

This simply means that the way in which you represent the game determines how much money the devs have to make the game better.

It's a bit of a myth that a worse selling game will force devs to make it better. That actually simply means that there isn't enough money to make it better.


I'm not judging your opinion or how you voice it. I'm simply explaining its relevance.

 

[Ulfing]

If you don't think it's worth the money, then don't buy it.

What if you don't think its worth the money but you really really want it? There needs to be a third path. I love most of the portraits, and I even really, really like the ships, and the name list is all sorts of adorable (though I'm still surprised there is only 1 compared to every other species), as well as the graphical diversity it brings. By not buying it I'd be damaging my own enjoyment for the sake of protest, which, for me, is at least why I'm being vocal on the forum - I think its a little overpriced, but I have bought it.

Anyway, the devs have posted so the feelings are noted, I'll try and clam up about it now and go adventure as Rhizome of Maroon.

 

[Wizzington]

I would prefer to see the art team do something more.. productive. Obviously the art team can only ever do cosmetic things. (That's what art is), but.. New buildings? Those need art.. New events? Those need art. New weapons and hull types for ships already in the game? Those need art. How about new ships in general? Those need art as well. All of those I'd pay 8$ for. New tech that needs art as well, and how about new planet types. Those need art. Plenty of things the art team and dev team can be doing together to bring something new that expands on things the game sorely lacks, rather than just giving us a cosmetic change and nothing really new in a game a majority of people have voiced feels... bland and empty.

The difference is that they are new. Not just cosmetic changes to things we already have. That's a huge difference for many people. Especially those who will never play plantoids they get almost nothing out of it.

If you prefer other things, then like I said, vote with your wallet. We're not forcing anyone to buy this DLC if they don't think it's worth the cost.

 

[Vic20]

It's very simple: This is the price point we determined that we need to charge in order for species packs to be worthwhile for us to do (creating ship sets is extremely labor intensive). If you don't think it's worth the money, then don't buy it. If enough people vote with their wallet this way, we'll likely not make any further species packs and put our graphical resources into other areas of the game instead. Of course, none of this affects other content for Stellaris such as expansions, which we'll produce whether Plantoids does well or not.

Unfortunately, while you may have worked out the math of pricing vs worth doing, you've missed a rather critical piece of the equation. What you gain from pricing high, you lose in terms of number of buys from people like myself who are either hesitant or unwilling to pay. For a lot of people, myself included, $9 is just too much for what amounts to a bit of pretty art. If you were riding high on a wave of good opinion from the community, you might've been able to get away with it. Unfortunately, you don't have a well spring of good community opinion due to a percieved lack of depth in the game and a mass of, often game-breaking, bugs. Plus the fact that the entire dev team just took a full month off (granted due to circumstances beyond your control) means that this little argument of economics leaves a bad taste in much of the community's mouth. Had the Plantoids pack been $5... I would have already bought it without a second thought. Hell, probably without a first thought.

However salty the community gets, the Devs and other PDX bods of importance need to keep their own saltiness in check. So yes, I will be voting with my wallet. Not because it's not affordable, but on the principle that PDX haven't built enough good will or kept promises to make me overlook it. Plus the comment about $19.99 from one of your important PDX bods (Johan)?! Well, all I can say is that particular person was talking out of whatever excretory orifice his species uses (since this is a bad time and place for trolling).

 

[Druski]

It's very simple: This is the price point we determined that we need to charge in order for species packs to be worthwhile for us to do (creating ship sets is extremely labor intensive). If you don't think it's worth the money, then don't buy it. If enough people vote with their wallet this way, we'll likely not make any further species packs and put our graphical resources into other areas of the game instead. Of course, none of this affects other content for Stellaris such as expansions, which we'll produce whether Plantoids does well or not.

I don't doubt the labor, I don't doubt someone did the math for how many people on average buy cosmetic dlc and this price point was decided to be the best way to turn a profit (though personally I think that since people are much more used to lower costs for cosmetic-only dlc, you would get significantly more purchases at around $4-5). However at the end of the day, it is a huge missed opportunity.

Had there been a few plant-themed events, maybe a plant space monster and some other minor additions to spice up the game, you could easily have charged more. Minor gameplay improvements like that to spice things up are going to significantly increase appeal over cosmetic-only, yet remain relatively simple/cheap to add (events in particular)

In short:
Cosmetic-only DLC? $4 or $5 = sell a ton more.
Spice it up with some minor content? $7-9 = sell a ton more.

Either way, a missed opportunity.

 

[Wizzington]

What if you don't think its worth the money but you really really want it? There needs to be a third path. I love most of the portraits, and I even really, really like the ships, and the name list is all sorts of adorable (though I'm still surprised there is only 1 compared to every other species), as well as the graphical diversity it brings. By not buying it I'd be damaging my own enjoyment for the sake of protest, which, for me, is at least why I'm being vocal on the forum - I think its a little overpriced, but I have bought it.

Anyway, the devs have posted so the feelings are noted, I'll try and clam up about it now and go adventure as Rhizome of Maroon.

We're a business. We're not going to sell products at a price that incurs a loss for us. If you want it but don't want to pay the price we're asking, I can only suggest waiting for a sale.

 

[Juboboman]

I think the mistake is a marketing one over a price one. In other CK/EU cosmetics are released usually as a standalone but along side "main" DLCs. I think if they held off on this and simply released it along side whatever 14.99 main DLC we see in a month or two three complaints would be less.

I think the QQ atm comes more from the current state of the game rather than the DLC price itself. I bet when they release the first major DLC and include the (hypothetical) synthetic portrait packs/ships along side it there won't be as much complaining.

 

[Te'Ryn Tec]

BTW, im voting with my wallet and supporting this.

Thank you for your purchase!
An email confirmation has been sent to you.

Thank you paradox and thank you specifically to your artist. Job well done.....although may want to have your lawyers ready for IF disney sees your groot species. lol.

 

[LordPavel]

Dear Paradox,

If you put a frog in hot water, the frog try to escape. If you put a frog a cold water, and you warn, the frog is ok and stay.
Here, the water was a little too hot.

I played CK2, and i bought the DLC when I have a good time during my games.
I played EUIV, and i bought the DLC when I have a good time during my games. And I go back play to this game because I am not satisfed by Stellaris. I dont buy all of the DLC, but maybe I will buy MN, and the few last comestic DLC I dont have.
I trust Prdx, and I want see Stellaris become my main game (because this game have a greater potential). And if I have a good time, during the price breaking of winter, maybe I will buy this DLC. But right now, no, the game is not enough finish for me. I dont really care about know if the work worth this price or not. I see the cosmetics DLC like a tips. Not like a must.

 

[amisttad]

Technically all ships have lots and lots of separate parts you build together in the ship designer.

Plantoids alone contains art at about 1/6th of the entire game.

IMHO, plantoids could have been priced at 19.99$ and have bern way worth it.

Johan it's bad joke.
I buy all DLC for EU4 in release day. Almost all DLC for CK2 in release day. But graphic DLC like this for 8euro it's to much. Price like 4euro will be good.
Better is sale 100k DLC for 4Euro than 1k DLC for 8Euro.

I give free, but very good advice you.
Create 1 big DLC: Add unike Technology for every spices. Add unikeevents for spices. FOr example for 15-17 euro
After that start release "graphic" DLC which will add new spaces, with new portraits, ships, technology and events. End in this case prices for 15-20euro can be good.

 

[Lord Milutin]

We're a business. We're not going to sell products at a price that incurs a loss for us. If you want it but don't want to pay the price we're asking, I can only suggest waiting for a sale.

Well, that is fair, but I want to support you because I love the game and you are working really hard on implementing and fixing stuff, so even though I think the price is higher than it should be, I will buy it.
However, please keep in mind that many of us don't really agree with some of those decisions when it comes to price.

 

[AKicebear]

Well, that is fair, but I want to support you because I love the game and you are working really hard on implementing and fixing stuff, so even though I think the price is higher than it should be, I will buy it.
However, please keep in mind that many of us don't really agree with some of those decisions when it comes to price.

You should review your purchase accordingly then.

 

[Kinkness]

If you prefer other things, then like I said, vote with your wallet. We're not forcing anyone to buy this DLC if they don't think it's worth the cost.

Unfortunately, while you may have worked out the math of pricing vs worth doing, you've missed a rather critical piece of the equation. What you gain from pricing high, you lose in terms of number of buys from people like myself who are either hesitant or unwilling to pay. For a lot of people, myself included, $9 is just too much for what amounts to a bit of pretty art. If you were riding high on a wave of good opinion from the community, you might've been able to get away with it. Unfortunately, you don't have a well spring of good community opinion due to a percieved lack of depth in the game and a mass of, often game-breaking, bugs. Plus the fact that the entire dev team just took a full month off (granted due to circumstances beyond your control) means that this little argument of economics leaves a bad taste in much of the community's mouth. Had the Plantoids pack been $5... I would have already bought it without a second thought. Hell, probably without a first thought.

However salty the community gets, the Devs and other PDX bods of importance need to keep their own saltiness in check. So yes, I will be voting with my wallet. Not because it's not affordable, but on the principle that PDX haven't built enough good will or kept promises to make me overlook it. Plus the comment about $19.99 from one of your important PDX bods (Johan)?! Well, all I can say is that particular person was talking out of whatever excretory orifice his species uses (since this is a bad time and place for trolling).

Pretty much what Vic said. I want too support Paradox. At 5$ I'd of bought it as well without a second or first thought. (Infact, I'm probably going to buy it anyway, just because I want stellaris to be great, that badly). But this is a wake up call to the Stellaris team.

The outlook on both stellaris team and paradox lately has been crumbling, and it's been crumbling for many reasons and snowballing. Even die hard fans like myself are starting too turn cynical at anything paradox says. For me HOI IV was that wake up call that Paradox isn't what they used to be. The complete removal of 90% of the mechanics and turning HOI IV into a glorified RISK, and being told Stellaris was going to be paradox's next grand strategy that will match CK 2 and EU IV (by your own words, not my pumped up hype), and it falling shorter than a simple strategy game like Gal Civ III...

Puts a very bad taste in my mouth, and with the last few patches of Stellaris breaking things, adding even more bugs, and all but destroying Federations and Alliances due to extremely imbalanced Diplomacy isn't helping things.

--------------------------------

Llike I've said numerous times. I want Stellaris and Paradox too succeed, but that doesn't mean I'm willing to give a free ride either. Maybe down the road after a few more patches, when the game actually feels like it has depth and substance, I'd of paid 8$ happily for a new ship cosmetic, and backgrounds, but in its current state? Definitely not ok with it.

 

[Pyramid_Head]

The spirit of Bioware is strong with this horse armor

 

[Mr Drone]

Unfortunately, while you may have worked out the math of pricing vs worth doing, you've missed a rather critical piece of the equation. What you gain from pricing high, you lose in terms of number of buys from people like myself who are either hesitant or unwilling to pay..

It's rather arrogant a lot of people assume that a developer/publisher with more than one game under their belt and like, I dunno, 4 or 5 pieces of DLC (or maybe even more!) doesn't know about what has been blatantly obvious in the entire games industry ever since the very first Steam sale...

There's a point at which lowering the price stops moving enough units to compensate for the price drop. I guess that's $8 in this case.

 

[Tacticus101]

Unfortunately, while you may have worked out the math of pricing vs worth doing, you've missed a rather critical piece of the equation. What you gain from pricing high, you lose in terms of number of buys from people like myself who are either hesitant or unwilling to pay.

You don't think Paradox are capable of doing basic economics? I would say it is quite clear that they have done the maths, calculated that at this price they will make more money than selling more at a lower price. There is literally no way they could have not done this calculation, as Johan said; they would have been charging 19.99 otherwise.

Do the maths though, reduce it to the price of $4 that people are asking for; now you need to double sales. I doubt they will get that much unless the less than 100 people on this thread somehow represent a 100,000 strong group.