7.99 for plantoids??!!

[Summercat]

Whew. People are REALLY peeved when it's pointed out that the work-value that went into this is reflected in the price.

 

[Vjeldan]

Love it how you people are pulling numbers out of your arses and calling it proof, reminds me of certain left wing politicians X D

Sorry, but this is not the place were I found those numbers. I actually wrote were i got my numbers from. I am perfectly aware, that these are not scientific but very vague. But that's not the point. For this argument to be invalid the numbers have to be completely miscalculated. Which may be the case. But either i am lacking understanding, but I am not the only one who is wondering how this can be possible, if even people who do exactly this for a living can't comprehend the logic behind what Johan himself said in regard to these complaints.

If we just go about "manmonths spent" and compare to pricing we've done previously on other games, then 7.99$ is extremely cheap..

If 7.99$ does not work as a price point for a species pack with new ships, stations etc, then I doubt we'll ever make another..

It's this post that I find the most disturbing. It's not that a company wants to make money, thats okay, thats part of their job. If they miscalculate the price, people will be upset and don't buy it, or even worse, the image of the company takes damage. But the point is many people have great trust in this specific developer. So there are quite high expectations.
Stellaris as it is only has been such a big success so far, because people believe that paradox will make space great again, that they will improve stellaris far beyond what it starts out as. If i would have believed Stallaris is the way it was at release and will never improve, i would never have bought it at fill price. I even preordered, which i never do without having this kind of trust in the goodwill of the developer.
This post though sounds like a blackmail. Like "Buy this, or we'll never do this again!". It might be these words were just careless and were never meant that way, but that this thread is as long as it is speaks for itself. Customers are worried what the meaning of this is. I am worried.

The price of 8€/$ is not the problem. It is the feeling to get told something wrong, to loose faith in something you realy wanted to be good.
Would it be EA that sells an overpriced horse armour set, which animations come from something else in the maingame, and has something that looks lazy like the lacking namelist, then noone would find this strange, and just continue to buy the games although they have been made by EA or stop to buy them. Whatever. But Paradox was seeming to be different, to be honest with us customers. And now this post means, either they are not beeing honest, or something along the way to create this DLC must have gone wrong. Maybe it's with the best intentions, but it is hard to believe that a price of 8€ is neccessary(!!) to create a DLC like this. People who know this kind of work are wondering, fanmade Mods from the workshop make wonder also.

There are many reasons that come together that the pricing of this DLC is inciting this unhappyness. But this unhappyness do have reasons.

 

[Fishman786]

Sorry, but this is not the place were I found those numbers. I actually wrote were i got my numbers from. I am perfectly aware, that these are not scientific but very vague. But that's not the point. For this argument to be invalid the numbers have to be completely miscalculated. Which may be the case. But either i am lacking understanding, but I am not the only one who is wondering how this can be possible, if even people who do exactly this for a living can't comprehend the logic behind what Johan himself said in regard to these complaints.



It's this post that I find the most disturbing. It's not that a company wants to make money, thats okay, thats part of their job. If they miscalculate the price, people will be upset and don't buy it, or even worse, the image of the company takes damage. But the point is many people have great trust in this specific developer. So there are quite high expectations.
Stellaris as it is only has been such a big success so far, because people believe that paradox will make space great again, that they will improve stellaris far beyond what it starts out as. If i would have believed Stallaris is the way it was at release and will never improve, i would never have bought it at fill price. I even preordered, which i never do without having this kind of trust in the goodwill of the developer.
This post though sounds like a blackmail. Like "Buy this, or we'll never do this again!". It might be these words were just careless and were never meant that way, but that this threat is as long as he is speaks for itself. Customers are worried what the meaning of this is. I am worried.

The price of 8€/$ is not the problem. It is the feeling to get told something wrong, to loose faith in something you realy wanted to be good.
Would it be EA that sells an overpriced horse armour set, which animations come from something else in the maingame, and has something that looks lazy like the lacking namelist, then noone would find this strange, and just continue to buy the games although they have been made by EA or stop to buy them. Whatever. But Paradox was seeming to be different, to be honest with us customers. And now this post means, either they are not beeing honest, or something along the way to create this DLC must have gone wrong. Maybe it's with the best intentions, but it is hard to believe that a price of 8€ are neccessary(!!) to create a DLC like this. People who know this kind of work are wondering, fanmade Mods from the workshop make wonder also.

There are many reasons that come together that the pricing of this DLC is inciting this unhappyness. But this unhappyness do has reasons.

Johan's just being honest though, like they usually are here. We're lucky we've got such a blunt explanation instead of "at Paradox Interactive we strive to ensure customer satisfaction by making the best products for you blah blah blah" like we'd get with most other businesses.

 

[Summercat]

This post though sounds like a blackmail. Like "Buy this, or we'll never do this again!". It might be these words were just careless and were never meant that way, but that this threat is as long as he is speaks for itself. Customers are worried what the meaning of this is. I am worried.

.

Oh step off.

Paradox has done the internal math and decided that for graphic packs like this to be worth their time, the current price is the lowest they can offer, taking into consideration future sales and discounts as well.

If people don't buy this pack? Then obviously there isn't enough demand for this product at the cheapest that Paradox is willing to offer for it. Therefore, as has been said multiple times, they would not make future species packs, and do something more productive with their time and internal assets.

Wiz and Johan have stated repeatedly that that line you're so concerned about is solely refering to species packs like this.

Lets say I make Widgets, and the cheapest I am willing to sell them, considering cost of manufacturing and effort put in, plus the lack of resources for other things, is $6. For less than $6, it's simply not worth it for me to make widgets. But nobody wants to buy a widget for $6. Well, that's too bad, I'm not willing to sell widgets for less than $6, therefore I'm going to stop production of widgets, and spend my time doing something else.

That's what's happening.

It's simply supply and demand - the two curves don't always intersect.

 

[Fishman786]

Oh step off.

Paradox has done the internal math and decided that for graphic packs like this to be worth their time, the current price is the lowest they can offer, taking into consideration future sales and discounts as well.

If people don't buy this pack? Then obviously there isn't enough demand for this product at the cheapest that Paradox is willing to offer for it. Therefore, as has been said multiple times, they would not make future species packs, and do something more productive with their time and internal assets.

Wiz and Johan have stated repeatedly that that line you're so concerned about is solely refering to species packs like this.

Lets say I make Widgets, and the cheapest I am willing to sell them, considering cost of manufacturing and effort put in, plus the lack of resources for other things, is $6. For less than $6, it's simply not worth it for me to make widgets. But nobody wants to buy a widget for $6. Well, that's too bad, I'm not willing to sell widgets for less than $6, therefore I'm going to stop production of widgets, and spend my time doing something else.

That's what's happening.

It's simply supply and demand - the two curves don't always intersect.

All of which is really Paradox's mistake from their perspective. If a 'simple graphics pack' requires so much effort that it needs to be sold for £6 then they've made a mistake. People have a threshold for spending money, and with cosmetic DLC that threshold is pretty low.

Fortunately that could be rectified I think by splitting future DLCs into a Ship Pack and a Portraits Pack. Maybe even separate the flag icons as well. Spending £6 on 'one little cosmetic dlc' seems like a con to most people, but spending £6 on three of them will seem like a reasonable deal.

 

[Summercat]

'simple graphics pack'

33 fairly highly detailed 3D models, several of which must fit together seamlessly when choosing from multiple variations, are not simple. Plus the 2D animated portraits, which aren't exactly child's play either.

Yeah, "simple".

You're still not addressing: Paradox has decided that if they want to do this, they need to sell it at X. If people dont want it at X, then they're not going to bother doing it.

That's the fundamental basic logic behind the "supply" portion of Supply and Demand.

If your argument is simply over how Paradox marketed it, that's different from most of the now 32 pages in this thread.

 

[Vjeldan]

You are right summercat. I just tried to explain the more irrational part of this little turmoil.
I think though the turmoil wouldn't be half of this, if there was a longer namelist and two namelists more, aswell as some flag icons.
Then it would look like an expensive cosmetic DLC and done. This way it seems to be lacking love in detail.
This is completely irrational, but somehow valid too.

 

[Fishman786]

33 fairly highly detailed 3D models, several of which must fit together seamlessly when choosing from multiple variations, are not simple. Plus the 2D animated portraits, which aren't exactly child's play either.

Yeah, "simple".

You're still not addressing: Paradox has decided that if they want to do this, they need to sell it at X. If people dont want it at X, then they're not going to bother doing it.

That's the fundamental basic logic behind the "supply" portion of Supply and Demand.

If your argument is simply over how Paradox marketed it, that's different from most of the now 32 pages in this thread.

I've put 'simple graphics pack' in inverted commas. I know it's actually a pretty bloody big job. But that's how people will perceive it.

 

[Summercat]

I've put 'simple graphics pack' in inverted commas. I know it's actually a pretty bloody big job. But that's how people will perceive it.

Then stop supporting their poor perceptions by using that phrase.

 

[Fishman786]

Then stop supporting their poor perceptions by using that phrase.

I'm commenting about the poor perception really. Regardless of what effort Paradox put into their work, if they market something as a cosmetic DLC people will end up calling it a 'simple graphics pack'. The answer to that is to change the marketing so people will think they are getting a good deal on two or three 'simple graphics packs' rather than a bad deal on one 'simple graphics pack'.

 

[Taciturn Scot]

LOL. The number of posts I've read here and elsewhere where folks have bragged that "I'm not going to pay full price for anything but are going to wait until the item goes on sale at 75%. LOL at you all!". Now the gaming companies are factoring this into the equation when calculating the standard price and the price goes up.

I know that there are no real consequences to my actions when I play games at my computer but this does not mean that there are no consequences to posting online. Every action has its consequence. But it's much easier, and more satisfying to blame the developer than to take responsibility.

Guys. If you don't want to pay the full price for it, wait for a sale and get it then. Since this is really stressing you out so much (32 pages of pathetic, overwrought crap already) I advise you, for your mental health's sake to get away from your computer for a while since you're clearly not using it for playing games which you enjoy. I know that's too scary a prospect for you as many of us single-player strategy gamers are introverts who prefer the anonymity of online interaction over actual personal contact but try at least. Or go find yourselves a girlfriend or boyfriend or a sheep, whatever you need to help you get it out of your system. Putting your underpants on your head and going online to throw an outrageous wobbly over something so utterly meaningless isn't healthy. It's pathetic.

 

[Augustus93]

LOL. The number of posts I've read here and elsewhere where folks have bragged that "I'm not going to pay full price for anything but are going to wait until the item goes on sale at 75%. LOL at you all!". Now the gaming companies are factoring this into the equation when calculating the standard price and the price goes up.

I know that there are no real consequences to my actions when I play games at my computer but this does not mean that there are no consequences to posting online. Every action has its consequence. But it's much easier, and more satisfying to blame the developer than to take responsibility.

Guys. If you don't want to pay the full price for it, wait for a sale and get it then. Since this is really stressing you out so much (32 pages of pathetic, overwrought crap already) I advise you, for your mental health's sake to get away from your computer for a while since you're clearly not using it for playing games which you enjoy. I know that's too scary a prospect for you as many of us single-player strategy gamers are introverts who prefer the anonymity of online interaction over actual personal contact but try at least. Or go find yourselves a girlfriend or boyfriend or a sheep, whatever you need to help you get it out of your system. Putting your underpants on your head and going online to throw an outrageous wobbly over something so utterly meaningless isn't healthy. It's pathetic.

How about that they calculate this into their equation: "I won't buy it at all then"?

 

[Summercat]

How about that they calculate this into their equation: "I won't buy it at all then"?

Already calculated. I mean, unless you're thinking they think everyone who bought Stellaris is going to buy every bit of DLC at any pricepoint.

Which is a bit ridiculous to think. Plenty of people here upset at the full price signaled they'd buy it at a lower price.

 

[Augustus93]

Already calculated. I mean, unless you're thinking they think everyone who bought Stellaris is going to buy every bit of DLC at any pricepoint.

Which is a bit ridiculous to think. Plenty of people here upset at the full price signaled they'd buy it at a lower price.

I was not so much referring to this dlc exactly but all -75% "posts" like the previous user said. And it is a false notion as well since they can't price their games at AAA levels, even through their highest "tier" comes pretty close to that levels already. Essentially they are a business and they will charge as much as they can get away with. Now maybe they sometimes charge too much and sometimes too little, only trial and error will determine if the price that they set was worth it for them or not. But as a customer, my "job" is to determine if the dlc (or game or any other product or service for that matter) offers me personally enough content to buy for their set price.

 

[Summercat]

I was not so much referring to this dlc exactly but all -75% "posts" like the previous user said. And it is a false notion as well since they can't price their games at AAA levels, even through their highest "tier" comes pretty close to that levels already. Essentially they are a business and they will charge as much as they can get away with. Now maybe they sometimes charge too much and sometimes too little, only trial and error will determine if the price that they set was worth it for them or not. But as a customer, my "job" is to determine if the dlc (or game or any other product or service for that matter) offers me personally enough content to buy for their set price.

Er.

...I'm not seeing what your point is.

Nobody is saying that everyone will buy it if it gets cheap enough, just that a good portion of the people here would buy them if it gets cheap enough. Frankly, outside of package deals like on Humblebundle, I've never bought a graphics pack before because they don't interest me. Paradox could offer them at 25 cents each, and I wouldn't be that interested in them.

That's already taken into consideration. Which is what you were trying to suggest wasn't.

 

[petertel123]

Technically all ships have lots and lots of separate parts you build together in the ship designer.

Plantoids alone contains art at about 1/6th of the entire game.

IMHO, plantoids could have been priced at 19.99$ and have bern way worth it.

"This DLC contains 1/6th of just the art of the base game, so clearly it should cost half the price of the entire game itself"

 

[Ingros]

Also found 8 euro to much... dont need plants for thst price... i probably will buy it later during sale (or not if stellaris wont be improved in the future)

But i also dont know how many work hours it was for a skilled worker... nor how expensive such a worker is...

 

[Knut Skallagrim]

"I'm not going to pay full price for anything but are going to wait until the item goes on sale at 75%. LOL at you all!". Now the gaming companies are factoring this into the equation when calculating the standard price and the price goes up.

And i as a d1 buyer already noticed this and i'm factoring this into the equation when i'm not buying anymore pdx dlcs on release. Also lemme say that it's pretty sad to have come to this, especially when i didn't abuse discounts at all with their games and paid 100% of the price of the games and dlcs i esteemed and played very deeply, like eu4.

 

[thekaje]

Same... You'll notice I bought at the highest tier too. Never again, good lord.

 

[Zghuk]

In the first moment I was shocked at the price, too, and I didnt want it to buy. I usally buy every new dlc from ckII and EU IV, even the south india dlc (i cant remember to have played south india in the last 2 years...). But at this price I had to rethink my "buying automatic", because I had expected a price between 4,99 and 6,99 Euro. It's ridiculous, talking about 1 Euro for a one-time-buy. If your milk or butter has a slightly higher price, you will pay a lot more over time. When I work I earn in 5 Minutes this 1 Euro or so (didnt calculated it). But sometimes men are price-sensitive. It's like the gasoline prices... sometimes you take the slightly higher price, because you dont care, sometimes you wait for 2-3 days...

I have now read the whole thread and I will buy the dlc anyway now. I guess most people have just a fear of higher prices of PDX products. Paradox releases so much dlcs, some useful, some difficult ones (I say just "corruption"), some just cosmetics. now they have the premium buy options (small-middle-high-price). after stellaris release there was the news of the chinese investor. Nobody knows in which direction Paradox will develope.

btw: I had bought the cossacks cosmetics dlc for the same price, I think in comparion the content there are equal. so it's nothing new. But I guess ppl have a feeling that stellaris isnt finished, so they have "earned" some goodies like not so expansive dlc. maybe this feeling isnt adequate anymore after 3 bigger patches...