7.99 for plantoids??!!

[Poh]

Yes there was. Here is the proof:

Look at 2:05 ("PLANT" pheotype placeholder) /12:20: (7th case in city appearence) and 17:00: (7th case in ship design, bottom of cancel button)

And, if you doubt about this,look at this mod created the 30 june (so before 4 august) that make you able to use plantoid cities, prooving that the file was already in game:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=714250224&searchtext=city

And whats the point of this? Ofcourse something under development would appear in the game, they need to test it, see how it looks etc. The only thing thats proof of is that the DLC was being developed at that point in time. The proof that it wasnt butchered is that it wasnt released with the game. The manhours used to create the DLC simply wasnt part of the budget for the main game.

 

[Summercat]

I got 17 pages in before I gave up.

But this thread made me decide to pick up the pack, despite the fact I never purchase graphical DLCs.

Look, I'm a furry. And you can't swing a cat in that fandom without running into the art marketplace there. This means I've got a damn good idea of what the going rate for this sort of thing would be *within the fandom*, and because I've professional artist friends who are actually in the animation and art industry, I'm well aware of what the "real world" prices of these goods are.

So when I say that $8 is a damn good price for the art content, it's a damned good price. A friend of mine who does 3D modeling work (albiet of an, ahem, adult nature) said he'd charge $200-$300 per model. Because of the detail/complexitivy/need for many to merge, I'm gonna say that's on the higher end, so just for the 3D models, that would cost $9900 - and not even include the rights to use them commercially. That's just the cost for the guy to make them for my own personal use/pleasure.

So.

Paradox has been clear on the purpose of their graphical DLC for quite some time. And the pricepoint here seems to reflect the work being accomplished. And since so many of you people are so upset over it...

It's going to tickle my fancy to buy the damn thing, despite me never playing anyone but the fox people.

 

[Defiler99]

I'm fine with the price in theory, I just think it's shoddy how many of them are re-skins of the launch-day species. Three or four of them are really good though, and I'll probably buy it after they fix the game.

 

[Migthy]

Stellaris Developers, I think you are aware that there are more species already made by the modders on steam. And most of them are way better than those joke making money plantoids. Get your things together, let the modders do these things, and you go there and fix the remaining things of the game and make a worthy DLC for this game. I haven't played this game in more than a month .. and just when I think how hyped I was for this game.

 

[ShadowDragon868]

I got 17 pages in before I gave up.

But this thread made me decide to pick up the pack, despite the fact I never purchase graphical DLCs.

Look, I'm a furry. And you can't swing a cat in that fandom without running into the art marketplace there. This means I've got a damn good idea of what the going rate for this sort of thing would be *within the fandom*, and because I've professional artist friends who are actually in the animation and art industry, I'm well aware of what the "real world" prices of these goods are.

So when I say that $8 is a damn good price for the art content, it's a damned good price. A friend of mine who does 3D modeling work (albiet of an, ahem, adult nature) said he'd charge $200-$300 per model. Because of the detail/complexitivy/need for many to merge, I'm gonna say that's on the higher end, so just for the 3D models, that would cost $9900 - and not even include the rights to use them commercially. That's just the cost for the guy to make them for my own personal use/pleasure.

So.

Paradox has been clear on the purpose of their graphical DLC for quite some time. And the pricepoint here seems to reflect the work being accomplished. And since so many of you people are so upset over it...

It's going to tickle my fancy to buy the damn thing, despite me never playing anyone but the fox people.

So what?

So what?

Let's assume they did hire your friend and drop $10,000 on the ship models, and twice that - totaling $30,000 - for the right to own it completely.

Now price it at $8. You need to sell 3,750 DLCs just to break even. Price it at $4, you need to sell 7,500 DLCs to hit your break-even price.

Thing is, a lot more people are gonna be willing to buy it at $4 - hell, $5 - than $8. More than twice as many people.
Pricing it at $8 is a shot at their own feet, or a cynical attempt to exploit whatever remaining love they're getting from the people who don't give a monkey's arse about the price or the state of the game. If Stellaris was the greatest thing since a knife that toasts your bread as it cuts it, then maybe I'd pony up that kind of kitty for FREAKING HORSE ARMOR... But it's not. Stellaris is, at present, literally unplayable for me, since something they did in the 1.2.3 patch, which was only supposed to make plantoids available, broke the New Ship Classes & More and Stellar Warpaints mods - things which actually make Stellaris playable, and the former of which would actually be worth $5-8 for adding new content to the game - oh, but it's free, because it's a labor of love.

[e]Also, your friend is a freelancer, not an employee. Employees get paid wages/salary and benefits, yes, but they were going to get paid those things anyway, and the rights for any such things made by the employee under the company's aegis automatically rest with the company, so it's not really the best example.

 

[Mudcrab]

Could you give some details or explanations on what exactly you are talking about "DLC Skeletons"?

Hello! DLC skeletons meaning a frame from which to hang so many DLC until it's a living breathing thing. There was no other intended meaning.

Although I refuse to buy either of these experiences (Hoi4, Distant Worlds: Stellaris to be specific) the developer entitlement continues to this day with Eu4 and CK2 (near 6,000 hours between) and it worries* me as to why so many are reeled in like so many fish, myself previously included; Paradox forums are populated by some very clever people as customers of their products.

Enjoy your day.

Edit: * Worried but not surprised. PDX' marketing beards, as already stated, are at the top of their game, seemingly.

 

[grommile]

Get your things together, let the modders do these things, and you go there and fix the remaining things of the game and make a worthy DLC for this game.

Specialist skilled labour is not interchangeable between different domains of expertise. The artists - being artists, not coders - do not need to be involved in the process of fixing the flaws in the computer program called Stellaris, but they're still on the payroll so Paradox might as well have them do something.

 

[AKicebear]

Are you saying that you would actually buy a punch on the nose, if it was charged 4.99 instead of 7.99?

If not, your logic is flawed.

No, you've missed the point.

Affordability≠Worthwhile

 

[albso437]

No, you've missed the point.

Affordability≠Worthwhile

Ok.
But this DLC is worth something.
You may not think it's worth 7.99, but that's beside the point.

A punch on the nose is on the other hand completely worthless.
In general you wouldn't even consider paying someone to hit you in the face, while a lot of players consider to buy this DLC, even If some decide not to because of the price tag.

Thus you compare something worthfull with something useless.

 

[AKicebear]

Ok.
But this DLC is worth something.
You may not think it's worth 7.99, but that's beside the point.

A punch on the nose is on the other hand completely worthless.
In general you wouldn't even consider paying someone to hit you in the face, while a lot of players consider to buy this DLC, even If some decide not to because of the price tag.

Thus you compare something worthfull with something useless.

This DLCs worth is determined by each consumer. Not by the producer, who only determines the price and hopes to hell the latter is slightly less than the former. If producers determined consumer's worth assessment, you may have gladly bought a few knuckle sandwiches.

The punch in the nose example was in response to claims that just because something cost less than a meal it must be a worthwhile purchase. That's obvious nonsense, just like paying for a kncukle sandwich because the seller tells you its affordable. In any case you agree with my main point so it seems silly to quibble over whether you find the example intuitive.

 

[PirateJack]

This is a very weak argument - I have plenty of money and still think it's a bad deal.

Imagine someone is selling a hard punch in the face for $8. You scoff at the price, and they ask "but isn't this only the cost of a fast food meal!? What are you, a beggar? And I'm quite strong!" You relent and fork over the money and receive a bloody nose, right?

Wrong. Just because something is affordable doesn't mean it's worthwhile. Any DLC will tend to be affordable for someone that can buy and maintain a computer and the time to play it. It doesn't mean it's worthwhile to buy said DLC. I'm not sure why this is such a baffling concept to the pro-plantoid set - some people think this is to much money *for what it offers*.

I'm not sure where you got this argument from my post. I said that if you're in such dire straits that £5.59 is a big deal, you shouldn't be buying these DLC at all, not that it being cheaper should make you more likely to buy it. That's the reasoning I use because I'm in that situation myself, so I wouldn't buy this if it was £0.99, never mind £5.59. I also said that in my opinion this much money is a decent price for what the DLC provides. You're fine to disagree with that, but it has no bearing on the strength of my argument, especially when you don't seem to be arguing against it.

Edit: Paradox's publicly listed status is of zero consequence to the consumer's decision. If they made the mistake of creating obligations that sour their community relations, that is their fault, not mine.

I partly disagree. While it doesn't change how the customer should interpret the value of the item in question, it does mean, to me, that how Paradox prices the item has changed and as such I should keep in mind that it may not be cost effective for them to sell at a lower price. As well as that, as I said, I don't begrudge Paradox trying to maximise the profits from their goods because at the end of the day they're a business and I value this specific product as being worth the price they have offered it at. A lot of people disagree, but that's my stance on the issue.

Also, your assumption that they'll plow all the extra capital into better gaming shows a poor understanding of how listed companies manage money/investment. My guess is the extra money will go entirely into mobile gaming.

You're being facetious now. Companies seek greater investment because the capital is required to make/improve their products. That's literally the entire point of going public. That it puts extra priority on making a profit is an unfortunate consequence of this form of seeking investment, but at the end of the day Paradox is in the business of making money. If they didn't sell what we wanted to buy, they wouldn't make that money. So no, they're not going to pump it into mobile gaming because that's not what their fanbase is willing to purchase.

 

[AKicebear]

I won't bicker about the example as it seems you don't disagree with it, except that you believe I misinterpreted you (which is always possible!).

You're being facetious now. Companies seek greater investment because the capital is required to make/improve their products. That's literally the entire point of going public. That it puts extra priority on making a profit is an unfortunate consequence of this form of seeking investment, but at the end of the day Paradox is in the business of making money. If they didn't sell what we wanted to buy, they wouldn't make that money. So no, they're not going to pump it into mobile gaming because that's not what their fanbase is willing to purchase.

Capital is provided to generate returns (profits). Price, quantity, and cost are the main levers available. Some companies increase quality to fetch a higher price, others market aggressively to increase quantity, and others out source or develop other cost saving measures. The three can be change concurrently or independently, and in some cases in conflict. You're assuming Paradox must be using it's new capital solely to increase quality. I'm skeptical based on what I've seen recently.

You also assume their players base is unchanging (what *we* buy). It is very possible for them to increase quality for some via polished visuals and lower it for others via shallower mechanics and AI, or general bugginess.

Also, they've explicitly stated they are getting into the lucrative mobile gaming market. I think as part of their IPO rationale. See quote from their CEO below via Google translate:
http://digital.di.se/artikel/paradox-interactive-gar-till-borsen#
"the company aims to go into games for consoles and step into the mobile gaming world for real"

 

[Schleisen]

Problem comes from the fact that people feel entitled(or obligated) to have every possible DLC for the game. And when they see a price they don't like(rightfully or unrightfully) they get mad.

To be honest, I feel 7.99$ is lot more than I'm willing to pay for such a thing but since I do not have any intentions of buying it, it doesn't bother me at all. Because people need to realize this is not an opt out feature, it's an opt in feature. It's premium after all, feeling of exclusiveness must be achieved. And that can only be done by having a slightly controversial price point.

If it makes you feel any better, Winter is coming. These DLCs will become 1.99 or 0.99 soon enough with Steam Winter Sale.

 

[serivahn]

I have spent hundreds of dollars on PDX DLC and products over the years, and the price isn't the issue for me. However, the fact so many "man hours" were apparently spent to produce this DLC that an 8 USD cost is necessary to make a worthwhile return on investment, bothers me. This implies a product road map that I do not agree with -- and given the incomplete state of the game, I would have rather seen those hours spent on other things.

 

[Vjeldan]

I find it strange such purely cosmetic DLC to cost 8€. I asked people who study and work in ArtDesign for Games and they say it's no big deal to animate 2D Portraits. Also making 3D Ship Models should be according to them pretty easy if the rest of the game is there already. Since the Portraits are well created (though are lacking research in anatomy and biology...) it might have taken one good artist 1 Month or less to complete the whole DLC.

Now the game was sold over 200.000 times at release. Pretty sure people bought the game still after that. Now let's just say 1% of those 200.000 customers buy this DLC, 2.000 people, then this is 16.000€. Im pretty sure the DLC can be sold far more often then 2.000 times. A Game Artist has according to google a salary somewhere between 2.000 and 3.500€ per month. Let's say I miscalculated and it took him even 2 months. And average at 3.000€ per Month, so with just 2.000 sold copies there should be alot of money left for everything else that is needed to ship this DLC.

I believe in supporting game developers and buying cosmetic DLC to do so. But the point is, they stated this is the minimum price neccessary to make DLCs like this worthwhile to produce and this is hard to believe.
Either I completely don't understand some hidden cost's, or i am lacking knowledge to see why an artist needs far more then 1-2 Months for this kind of stuff or has a far higher salary,.... or, and this is what it sadly looks like, it's greedy.

Of corse Paradox can charge whatever they think is right for their product. But Paradox stands for beeing the good guys and for great customer support. Now this price in combination with the statement this would be the minimum price or else they will never do something like this... it hurts the reputation.

I would've bought this if it had a reasonable price just to support the developers in further improving the game since I had the trust they do. But now im wary and will not buy till I know the game has been improved to what it was advertized as. Maybe a few big patches later,.... :/

 

[Soranya]

I find it strange such purely cosmetic DLC to cost 8€. I asked people who study and work in ArtDesign for Games and they say it's no big deal to animate 2D Portraits. Also making 3D Ship Models should be according to them pretty easy if the rest of the game is there already. Since the Portraits are well created (though are lacking research in anatomy and biology...) it might have taken one good artist 1 Month or less to complete the whole DLC.

This!

 

[petertel123]

So I'm hearing that a lot of the portraits look a lot like already existing portraits, and that plantoids have only a single name list that is also very short.
So this DLC is both lazy and overpriced? Yeah, it's a no from me.

 

[McDog]

I plunked down my $8 and downloaded it. I won't be able to buy shoes now and my house may be foreclosed.

Kidding aside, I thought the price was high also but at the end of the day, it's 8 bucks. I gave an $8 tip two days ago. It ain't enough cash to get my undies in a bunch like many here.

 

[petertel123]

I plunked down my $8 and downloaded it. I won't be able to buy shoes now and my house may be foreclosed.

Kidding aside, I thought the price was high also but at the end of the day, it's 8 bucks. I gave an $8 tip two days ago. It ain't enough cash to get my undies in a bunch like many here.

I've seen the same argument at 5 bucks, and 6, and 7
Perhaps somewhere in the future cosmetic DLC will be 20 bucks and people will say "It's only 2 mcdonalds meals"

 

[Fishman786]

Cosmetic DLCs should not cost this much, and if they need to cost this much just to make business sense there's been a mistake somewhere down the line. £6 for 'just some graphics' (regardless of how much effort it takes to make them) isn't going to fly with many people at all.

DLC like this would be better, IMO, if it was split into two: one for the portraits and one for the ships. That way you can price each one at £2.99 and plenty of people will buy both.