7/2 is crap now?

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thedarkendstar

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Now?

7/2s have been inferior to 10/0s since 1.5 and WTT when artillery got nerfed.
is 10 really the build tho im suprised people dont throw in at guns or maybe some AA if they dont think they will have air superiority
 

pro.gamer.69

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So I think 7/2 along side tank divisions isn't bad on an offense.
They aren't bad but you'd be better making more tanks and 10/0s. You can typically encircle bad terrain and kill it with the 10/0s which are even cheaper.

However there are areas where, as you say, 7/2s and 14/4s are decent and worth the IC cost. Marshes, jungles and mountains, since they cause attrition, especially when they can't be encircled and killed with 10/0s. This is part of the reason why infantry Japan is "meta" currently. For mountains and marshes the 7/2 mountaineers and marines are a good choice.
Dont light tanks have less recon then motorized tho
You use them for the armor meme and the "hard" stats (attack, breakthrough, etc.). Recon is pretty useless.
 
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damnt512

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I just started hearing people say that 7/2 is no longer meta since artillery was nerfed long ago and that 10 infantry is way better. Is it true?

What uses are left for artillery outside support if adding it to infantry divisions makes them weak?
It's used only by minor nation or in SP these days, the meta inf build is 14-4 if you want good inf division. Or just build tanks and a bunch of 10 width inf to holf the line.
 

TheMeInTeam

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To be honest, pretty much every nation can afford tanks. If you put at most 1 factory on guns, 1 on motorized, 1 on support equipment and the rest on light tanks and light SPGs, you can have 1 or 2 20w light tanks. A template of 4-5 lights, 2 light SPGs and 2-3 motorized is ideal. Since you get 3 factories from the default focus tree all you need is 1-2 more. For infantry just spam cheap cavalry. Use the support equipment for maintenance on the tanks so you don't need guns.
Minors that do this will tend to struggle to have enough divisions to cover front lines.

In practice, if you're naval invading UK/Japan or fighting early wars, infantry micro will tend to dominate the AI with or without tanks. If you're doing a d-day landing mid-late game, having a few 20w of light tanks won't get the job done since the AI will just spam attack/pin everything down and de-org.

Air power makes a big difference too, since it slows down opposing troop movements and prevents you from being slowed down. In green air even cavalry or especially pure mot can exploit breakthroughs in AI lines if you're careful with pin attacks.
 
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ltccone

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I mostly play Germany, and use 7-2 and 10-0. It's not an either or situation.
 

Cavalry

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7/2 always beats 10/0! And you can always mix them if you cannot afford all 7/2.
The more questionable thing is Eng for 20w. Very costly to use on large scale.
 
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FlinzP

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Smaller divisions should always had lightness advantage. More efficient retreat and faster attacks with better initiative while heavier divisions do localized operative punching. Divisions should start retreating before their org hit zero and more you have stuff. larger part of the total org it requires to pull back. You keep fighting while retreating unless there is other division in same region still fighting. If division runs out of org you start bleeding your heavier equipment like artillery, AT and AA. Worst scenario whole division gets overrun just like in current game. More you have motorized units, less you need org and time to retreat. In real war salients were always risky to hold as you could lose a lot of equipment and slow units in the hasty retreat.

This allows much more depth in division planning. You make some heavy divisions to break front lines, lighter divisions to fast gain ground, fully motorized to move fast and hold line while other units are moving. Gives more purpose to the different divisions and cavalry/motorized. Basic smaller infantry divisions would be useable at everything but are really just that, basic front line. Making all support companies useful in combat divisions would also be great to have different things going on.
 
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tract

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In a combat, if a division targets another with more defense/breakthrough than it has attacks, its attacks will only have a 10% chance each of doing damage. However, if they have more attacks than the target's defense/breakthrough, each "attack over def/bkt" will have a 40% chance of hitting. For example - division A has 100 attacks, and targets division B which has 50 defense. 50 of division A's attacks will be under defense, and only 50*.1 = 5 of them would be expected to hit. However the other 50 would be over defense, and 50*.4 = 20 of them would be expected to hit.

Out of interest, does the game roll its RNG dice as many times as it sounds for that calculation? If we have a combat with an attacker of 1000 soft attack and defender with 2000 defence, will it roll a die 1000 times, per combat tick? Or does it simplify that calculation somehow?

I'm asking because I noticed that the game ran smoothly with 10-20 active combats but when the Soviets started an all-out assault (50+ combats) the ticks slowed down to a crawl to me.

(Most RNGs are pretty CPU intensive and a game really should keep the calls to <1000 per second, and I'm being generous there.)


bitmode?
 

Corpse Fool

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Out of interest, does the game roll its RNG dice as many times as it sounds for that calculation? If we have a combat with an attacker of 1000 soft attack and defender with 2000 defence, will it roll a die 1000 times, per combat tick? Or does it simplify that calculation somehow?

I'm asking because I noticed that the game ran smoothly with 10-20 active combats but when the Soviets started an all-out assault (50+ combats) the ticks slowed down to a crawl to me.

(Most RNGs are pretty CPU intensive and a game really should keep the calls to <1000 per second, and I'm being generous there.)


bitmode?
The game really only uses /200 of the land stats, and will use the remainder to affect the chance of it geting rounded up or down, so it kinda averages out to being the same total amount as a straight /200.
 
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Gritt

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I just started hearing people say that 7/2 is no longer meta since artillery was nerfed long ago and that 10 infantry is way better. Is it true?

What uses are left for artillery outside support if adding it to infantry divisions makes them weak?
Here are some screenshots of a game I finished a few weeks ago. My 7/2 Basic Leg Infantry were mostly unchanged from the assault on occupied France in 43, more Divisions added as the war progressed. Germany surrendered in May 6, 45. Basic 7/2 Divisions can still work in this scenario with AA, Battlefield Air Support, Marine Amphibious Divisions in the Armies, and Spies. I also used an Army with 20w Med Tanks. (My first time using screenshots.) No Mods except Colored Buttons.



Basic Infantry 7/2
hoi4_23.png

Basic 7/2 Motor Division that went to Germany
hoi4_24.png



Second Basic Infantry 7/2 that assaulted Vichy & the Basic Marine Amphibious that assisted in European fight.
hoi4_26.png
 
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Eh up me duck

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7/2 is not crap. There are far too many people who do not understand the base mechanics and just pick one "meta" thing and act like everything else is garbage.
 
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damnt512

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7/2 is not crap. There are far too many people who do not understand the base mechanics and just pick one "meta" thing and act like everything else is garbage.
They're not crap, just not the meta anymore in MP. Play 20 width all you want in SP, AI not good enough to handle it anyway.
 
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Shaka of Carthage

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thedarkendstar

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If only there was enough org for 11/6s :p
 

ThaHoward

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Unless, say the AI builds 40w.
But they don't, and I, personally, have gotten most achievements without much effort with either historical divisions or not just bothering to edit them at all.
 

mpop

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with 7-2 I will just suicide there's no way i can break 6-10 division spam against the allies I really need the armor to encircle them and breaktghrough. 7-2 works only against minors or if you go 1v1.
 
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bitmode

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Out of interest, does the game roll its RNG dice as many times as it sounds for that calculation? If we have a combat with an attacker of 1000 soft attack and defender with 2000 defence, will it roll a die 1000 times, per combat tick? Or does it simplify that calculation somehow?

I'm asking because I noticed that the game ran smoothly with 10-20 active combats but when the Soviets started an all-out assault (50+ combats) the ticks slowed down to a crawl to me.

(Most RNGs are pretty CPU intensive and a game really should keep the calls to <1000 per second, and I'm being generous there.)


bitmode?
It is explained in the land combat page of the wiki. The attack numbers are divided by 10 but then random numbers are actually rolled for each of these scaled down attack points.
There are way more than 1000 die rolls in a second; it is not very CPU intensive actually (when compared to emulating the result of multiple die rolls with statistical functions). Slowdown during combat can also be related to pathing which by comparison is rather expensive on an irregularly shaped map like hoi4's.
 
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