6th Research Slot as Fascist US

[General Waluigi]

So I just started a game as the US and decided to go down the fascist tree for the first time. I noticed that the branch leading to the 6th available research slot is only available if support for democracy is 95% or higher, which means that you can't grab it after completing the America 1st focus (which you would want to do as early as possible for the daily support advisor). Is taking the extra time for the research slot worth it, considering the time that would have to be invested and that you're already about a year behind due to the election requirement?

 

[him_15]

This is clearly worked on purpose.

 

[Vlad123]

The problem is: what is a Research slot !? That is, abstractly what is it? funds in research (on hoi3 it was so it represented how many funds you gave to research) if so then one should be able to increase them by spending (a lot) civil IC. If instead it represents the number of laboratories or techteam you would like to be able to enlist or build research laboratories (on Black ice, if I'm not mistaken, they exist and are conquerable, so you can increase its research slots by conquering the enemy research buildings)

 

[Meglok]

This is clearly worked on purpose.

The reason is all those European refugee scientists that flocked historically to the US are not coming to a fascist USA.

 

[General Waluigi]

This is clearly worked on purpose.

It does make some sense, however there are not nearly as many barriers for the communist path to go down and take the research slot before going full communist. Not only can they starting working on their tree a year earlier, they have easy access to the 5th research slot via WPA->Scientific Research & Development Office. The 6th Slot only requires either Limited Intervention or Neutrality Act, and Arsenal of Democracy. Suspend the Persecution (focus that begins the communist tree) doesn't change communist support, so it makes it easier for the player to grab the 6th slot before going communist.

 

[Vlad123]

It does make some sense, however there are not nearly as many barriers for the communist path to go down and take the research slot before going full communist. Not only can they starting working on their tree a year earlier, they have easy access to the 5th research slot via WPA->Scientific Research & Development Office. The 6th Slot only requires either Limited Intervention or Neutrality Act, and Arsenal of Democracy. Suspend the Persecution (focus that begins the communist tree) doesn't change communist support, so it makes it easier for the player to grab the 6th slot before going communist.

therefore either it is made possible also for the fascists ... or it is removed for the communists

 

[General Waluigi]

therefore either it is made possible also for the fascists ... or it is removed for the communists

I think a simple fix would be to prevent the player from going down Neutrality acts if they hire the communist advisor. This limitation is already in place for the fascists.

 

[Vlad123]

I think a simple fix would be to prevent the player from going down Neutrality acts if they hire the communist advisor. This limitation is already in place for the fascists.

Or more simply if he has completed the focus he cannot have the 6 slot ... or if he goes to the slot and then focuses, with a simple IF, it says "If you have completed the focus with the slot, remove a research slot "

 

[General Waluigi]

Or more simply if he has completed the focus he cannot have the 6 slot ... or if he goes to the slot and then focuses, with a simple IF, it says "If you have completed the focus with the slot, remove a research slot "

Perhaps an event should pop up as soon as communist support reaches a certain level if the player has finished the "Scientist Haven" focus, which then removes the research slot. "Scientists flee Country" perhaps.

 

[Vlad123]

Perhaps an event should pop up as soon as communist support reaches a certain level if the player has finished the "Scientist Haven" focus, which then removes the research slot. "Scientists flee Country" perhaps.

and where should they escape? in the UK?

 

[General Waluigi]

and where should they escape? in the UK?

To any democratic or non-aligned countries I guess? The main purpose of the event would be to debuff the US by removing the research slot. If the event fires, it could allow the UK and France to invite American scientists a la Germany/Italy via decisions or possibly give them a small research buff (no more than 5%).

 

[Vlad123]

To any democratic or non-aligned countries I guess? The main purpose of the event would be to debuff the US by removing the research slot. If the event fires, it could allow the UK and France to invite American scientists a la Germany/Italy via decisions or possibly give them a small research buff (no more than 5%).

The decision, "welcome the Italian / German scientists" already exists (and gives a malus to stability), the bonus disappears if the target (Germany / Italy) becomes democratic / non-aligned or the host becomes fascist / communist.

 

[GrandVezir]

The USA gets its sixth research slot from a path that requires either the "Limited Intervention" or "Neutrality Act" national focus. However, it's prevented from adding either the fascist demagogue or the communist revolutionary to their government if they have started either of those focuses (check the tooltips for those advisors), and both Limited Intervention and Neutrality Act will be locked/auto-cancel if you add either of these advisors.

But note: only Neutrality Act requires any degree of democracy support, so here's how* to get the 6th slot as one of the murderous tyrannical ideologies:

1. Pick your preferred evil ideology and unlock its advisor through the focus tree.
2. Appoint the advisor and leave them in place until you reach the necessary % of ideology that you want.
3. Remove the advisor, then begin the Limited Intervention focus.
4. Proceed down the tree to Scientist Haven. You must finish this focus before you actually...
5. Switch ideology.

Seems like a lot of work for a single research slot, but you play the way you want to play.

*I haven't actually tested this because it's not my thing, but it works if the tooltips are accurate.

 

[squid_hills]

The USA gets its sixth research slot from a path that requires either the "Limited Intervention" or "Neutrality Act" national focus. However, it's prevented from adding either the fascist demagogue or the communist revolutionary to their government if they have started either of those focuses (check the tooltips for those advisors), and both Limited Intervention and Neutrality Act will be locked/auto-cancel if you add either of these advisors.

But note: only Neutrality Act requires any degree of democracy support, so here's how* to get the 6th slot as one of the murderous tyrannical ideologies:

1. Pick your preferred evil ideology and unlock its advisor through the focus tree.
2. Appoint the advisor and leave them in place until you reach the necessary % of ideology that you want.
3. Remove the advisor, then begin the Limited Intervention focus.
4. Proceed down the tree to Scientist Haven. You must finish this focus before you actually...
5. Switch ideology.

Seems like a lot of work for a single research slot, but you play the way you want to play.

*I haven't actually tested this because it's not my thing, but it works if the tooltips are accurate.

I haven't played the US, but my roommate plays them a ton and this sounds pretty much like how he describes a min-max US game: swap advisors out back and forth to keep your politics pie chart showing the amount of ideology you need to grab the best national focuses.

 

[aono]

The USA gets its sixth research slot from a path that requires either the "Limited Intervention" or "Neutrality Act" national focus. However, it's prevented from adding either the fascist demagogue or the communist revolutionary to their government if they have started either of those focuses (check the tooltips for those advisors), and both Limited Intervention and Neutrality Act will be locked/auto-cancel if you add either of these advisors.

But note: only Neutrality Act requires any degree of democracy support, so here's how* to get the 6th slot as one of the murderous tyrannical ideologies:

1. Pick your preferred evil ideology and unlock its advisor through the focus tree.
2. Appoint the advisor and leave them in place until you reach the necessary % of ideology that you want.
3. Remove the advisor, then begin the Limited Intervention focus.
4. Proceed down the tree to Scientist Haven. You must finish this focus before you actually...
5. Switch ideology.

Seems like a lot of work for a single research slot, but you play the way you want to play.

*I haven't actually tested this because it's not my thing, but it works if the tooltips are accurate.

Yes, that's exactly how I did it with red USA.

 

[Vlad123]

Yes, that's exactly how I did it with red USA.

is possible with fascist?

 

[aono]

is possible with fascist?

Never tried, but suppose so.

 

[Meglok]

I haven't played the US, but my roommate plays them a ton and this sounds pretty much like how he describes a min-max US game: swap advisors out back and forth to keep your politics pie chart showing the amount of ideology you need to grab the best national focuses.

This path was identified soon after the revised USA focus tree was released. Several obvious fixes to prevent ahistorical and completely implausible focus switching to grab bonuses were suggested. And never implemented. So what should be mutually exclusive bonuses can be stacked to make the USA even more OP than ever, simply because of missing if then coding.

 

[WJLIII3]

It does make some sense, however there are not nearly as many barriers for the communist path to go down and take the research slot before going full communist. Not only can they starting working on their tree a year earlier, they have easy access to the 5th research slot via WPA->Scientific Research & Development Office. The 6th Slot only requires either Limited Intervention or Neutrality Act, and Arsenal of Democracy. Suspend the Persecution (focus that begins the communist tree) doesn't change communist support, so it makes it easier for the player to grab the 6th slot before going communist.

This isn't actually accurate because

The USA gets its sixth research slot from a path that requires either the "Limited Intervention" or "Neutrality Act" national focus. However, it's prevented from adding either the fascist demagogue or the communist revolutionary to their government if they have started either of those focuses (check the tooltips for those advisors), and both Limited Intervention and Neutrality Act will be locked/auto-cancel if you add either of these advisors.

But note: only Neutrality Act requires any degree of democracy support, so here's how* to get the 6th slot as one of the murderous tyrannical ideologies:

1. Pick your preferred evil ideology and unlock its advisor through the focus tree.
2. Appoint the advisor and leave them in place until you reach the necessary % of ideology that you want.
3. Remove the advisor, then begin the Limited Intervention focus.
4. Proceed down the tree to Scientist Haven. You must finish this focus before you actually...
5. Switch ideology.

Seems like a lot of work for a single research slot, but you play the way you want to play.

*I haven't actually tested this because it's not my thing, but it works if the tooltips are accurate.

This isn't accurate. All focuses after Act of Neutrality also have the same democratic support restriction, and all focuses after Suspend the Persecution have the "haven't taken Neutrality Act" restriction, but they aren't listed on the tree until you actually run up against them. I've tried many paths. It worked at MtG release, but not anymore.

Only democratic US can get six

 

[el nora]

This isn't actually accurate because



This isn't accurate. All focuses after Act of Neutrality also have the same democratic support restriction, and all focuses after Suspend the Persecution have the "haven't taken Neutrality Act" restriction, but they aren't listed on the tree until you actually run up against them. I've tried many paths. It worked at MtG release, but not anymore.

Only democratic US can get six

As of the current patch you can still do the strategy you quote. Among the USA's focuses, only Union Representation Act and Ally With the Silver Shirts contain the lines

available = {
    ...
    not = { has_completed_focus = USA_limited_intervention }
    not = { has_completed_focus = USA_neutrality_act }
}

Similarly, Both Earl Browder and Charles Coughlin contain the lines

available = {
    ...
    not = { focus_progress = { focus = USA_neutrality_act progress > 0 } }
    not = { focus_progress = { focus = USA_limited_intervention progress > 0 } }
}

LI does not check that you have not taken URA or SS, merely that you do not currently have either Browder or Coughlin currently hired

available = {
    ...
    NOT = { has_idea_with_trait = fascist_demagogue }
    NOT = { has_idea_with_trait = communist_revolutionary }
}

And since there is no minimum democratic support requirement for any of the focuses underneath LI as there is under NA, specifically including the goal of this, Scientist Haven. All that is required is that you be nominally Democratic. Since both ideological paths can gain enough support from their respective advisers before ever taking LI, they can then fire them when they have gotten enough support, go down LI to the research slot, and then, in 1940 or whatever, they can flip ideology.