6th Airborne - Changing ingredients... while keeping the flavour.

[Herrmaus3r]

If you take 8 x 25 pders, you do not get either mortars, or your Pack 75's or HMS warspite.

How are you not taking deck slots into account?

If you don't take Warspite and you take the mortars, the Packs and all the 25's that is a grand total of 12 light artillery pieces for the entire match. Your number only goes down if you take Warspite.

This is not a lot of artillery. It just looks that way when looking at the x5 card.



101st gets 105mm and 75mm on top of mortars and off-map. Artillery is not its weakness. I don't play 3rd FSJ often at all so I don't remember what it has, but I'm sure it has some nice mortars and multiple off map options since that shit has rained on me incessantly.

101st relies on offmap which, as I said earlier, is another matter entirely. It has a total of 4 on map artillery pieces not counting the 60mm mortars. The pack howitzers are the same as 6th with the exception you can take 1 card of two in A, and the 105s you can only take 1 card of 2 iirc.

FSJ also relies on offmap, their onmap pieces consist of 1 card of 81mm mortar in A, and 1 card of GebH. 40 which is better than 25PDR, but has less range, and you can only get 2 of them max.

What you're proposing would essentially merge both an airborne and infantry deck together so that something like 352nd, 716th, or 17th could not hard counter it as it is supposed to (being artillery dedicated decks).

Again, let me repeat again airborne decks are not supposed to have strong artillery, what you propose would have them be as powerful as 2nd ID, or Scots that are dedicated artillery decks and pay for that by not also having a ridiculous airtab to boot. You pick one or the other, and 6th AB is picking the airtab.

 

[Ahab78]

8*25pdrs...at 120 points each? Hm, sounds like a bargain to re-enact the Cannonade of Valmy.

The 25pdr in-game is the other 88mm anyway. Only poor Canadians in A are desparate enough to rely on them. (They could still use the 2'' mortar, though. one might actually hit something with it if the enemy comes close enough to help with reloading the tubes.)

Until they don't get buffed I would only use them to lure the enemy into buying FSK 18s that you can then smash with Mosquitos

 

[I WUB PUGS]

101st relies on offmap which, as I said earlier, is another matter entirely. It has a total of 4 on map artillery pieces not counting the 60mm mortars. The pack howitzers are the same as 6th with the exception you can take 1 card of two in A, and the 105s you can only take 1 card of 2 iirc.

FSJ also relies on offmap, their onmap pieces consist of 1 card of 81mm mortar in A, and 1 card of GebH. 40 which is better than 25PDR, but has less range, and you can only get 2 of them max.

What you're proposing would essentially merge both an airborne and infantry deck together so that something like 352nd, 716th, or 17th could not hard counter it as it is supposed to (being artillery dedicated decks).

Again, let me repeat again airborne decks are not supposed to have strong artillery, what you propose would have them be as powerful as 2nd ID, or Scots that are dedicated artillery decks and pay for that by not also having a ridiculous airtab to boot. You pick one or the other, and 6th AB is picking the airtab.

Well the problem here then (I think you're wrong about 101st btw. Pretty sure it gets 2 x 2 cards of 105mm) is that you (and I agree) want off-map cut, but you don't want a replacement of any sort.

If you take out the Phase A Warspite, then there needs to be a replacement. I think the x3 card of 25 pders is fair for that..... and it comes in B anyway.

The x5 card is just there as an enticement for a player that may want on map support vs taking Warspite in C. That's called 'having options'.

 

[Herrmaus3r]

Well the problem here then (I think you're wrong about 101st btw. Pretty sure it gets 2 x 2 cards of 105mm) is that you (and I agree) want off-map cut, but you don't want a replacement of any sort.

If you take out the Phase A Warspite, then there needs to be a replacement. I think the x3 card of 25 pders is fair for that..... and it comes in B anyway.

The x5 card is just there as an enticement for a player that may want on map support vs taking Warspite in C. That's called 'having options'.

We do agree on wanting off map out, and I want a replacement, (as there should be) but we shouldn't go overboard and give them more onmap artillery than even dedicated artillery decks, we're going in the wrong direction and making the decks have little to no weaknesses. This, again is not something that should be encouraged. (Look at open beta scots, 101st and FSJ for prime examples)

I would prefer phase A pack howitzers come in at 2x card, and have 2 cards of 25 PDRs at 1x card in B with them coming in at 2x card in C.

This would give you the option of taking 25 PDRs, and plenty of them but not a metric F***ton of them, and still have the option of taking either mortars or pack howitzers in A.

25PDRs have 2400m range iirc, and that is already outranging pack howitzers, and the GebH. 40 by 400m, which is more then enough of an advantage to have. Couple that with a nice 25 PDR buff overall and it should be more than enough.

The goal is to give them options, this gives them options without having them overshadow dedicated artillery decks.

 

[I WUB PUGS]

What about an artillery tab with options of:

1 card of 2x 81 mm mortars in Phase A with 1 star vet
1 card of 2x Pack Howitzer in Phase A with 1 star vet
1 card of 3x Pack Howitzer in Phase B (I feel the Pack Howitzer can be a middle ground and offer flexibility)
1 card of 2 x 25 pder in Phase C
1 card of 2 x HMS Warpsite in Phase C

I still think your suggestions or even the above are pretty no-brainer. I'd like some enticement to not take Warspite at all which is why I gave them 'a fuck ton of 25ders'

What about like a 4 x card of 81mm mortars with 1 star in Phase C?

 

[mitchverr]

Whelp, another thing that "could work" however I am unsure on how far eugen would take it.

From what I gather for post normandy breakout I know that the belgian brigade got AEC cars for fire support roles(eg germany, belgium, maybe some in france, pictures are not very well labelled), however I simply cannot find anything on them for normandy of what they did or didnt have access to (as official sources are hard to find and seem to be wrong from photographs and "borrowed kit" etc happening a fair bit).

Could be something, if others found a source for you ^^ Afterall, it would be the most armoured vehicle in the deck lol.

 

[Yung Rommel]

You'd be adding even more stars than I would have with units that actually get used. You really think the entire Infantry tab should be 2-star?

I can't get down with the Pak 40 veterancy. Makes no sense logically and a lot of people have been arguing for 6 pders in Phase A because they get other stuff from gliders in A. The Pak 40 has HE so it is still useful, but giving it 2 stars means that 6th AB would have the most potent AT gun of any deck in the game in Phase A. (sans Pak 43 for 21st Pz???)

I'll wait for other comments concerning your suggestions before I update the OP again.






You get 4 slots of artillery.

One slot goes to mortars almost always in Phase A. Then giving them their Pack Howitzers in Phase A which they already get access to, just not a double-card is another slot. I'd cut those single cards btw if they got the double card. Then in the 3rd slot the'd probably take the 25pders in Phase B.

That's one slot left to decide between HMS Warspite or the Phase C 25 pders. Possible combinations would be:
8 total 25 pders across B and C (NO WARSPITE! YAY!)
3 x 25 pders (B) + HMS Warspite (C)
5 x 25 pders + HMS Warspite in Phase C

That isn't a lot of artillery, it just gives more choice in the artillery tab for a division that presently has none because they have near zero availability of even the Pack howitzers and mortars. Which is exactly why HMS Warspite is a given when building the deck.

The artillery tab is probably in need of the most work in terms of availability of light artillery. No one is asking for something like the American 105mm or 120mm mortars. The deck has shit artillery now and probably always will considering the best anyone can suggest with historical support is a handful of garbage 25's.

You get the least amount of guys out of any AB deck and they have the worst weapons so they should be the most elite, they're Red Devils.

AB Paras captured the Pak 40 hence double vet. It being the best phase A AT gun makes sense because it's the only one they get and troops are stuck with Gammon bombs and tetrarchs.

Making into an arty deck is a bad idea imo, an elite infantry deck as allies (like 3rd FJ) would be really fun though.

 

[I WUB PUGS]

By what grounds do British Paras become elite veterans with a PAK 40 though?

No other captured unit gets even a star.

Why not just give them the 6 pders?

 

[Herrmaus3r]

By what grounds do British Paras become elite veterans with a PAK 40 though?

No other captured unit gets even a star.

Why not just give them the 6 pders?

I really have to agree here, 6 pounders are the way to go, maybe a card of 2x card at vet 1 should solve the issue. You have tetrarchs for anything else, It should be more than enough

 

[mitchverr]

Just an FYI 2 pounders ATGs were well and truely out the armed forces by D Day.

 

[Yung Rommel]

By what grounds do British Paras become elite veterans with a PAK 40 though?

No other captured unit gets even a star.

Why not just give them the 6 pders?

No other captured unit is captured by elite crew or infantry. Furthermore it's reasonable to assume badass mustached commandos would be just as raw if they pilfered an enemy heavy weapon.

My only argument against 6 pounders is playstyle, I imagine vetted pak 40 and jeep with snipers and vickers teams forming a defensive position so the paras and light tanks can take close quarters areas.

Opinions on other changes?

 

[local-festival]

Also eight card of infantry is not nearly enough. The infantry is actually not really that good and there are no specialists at all: on A you can utilize Paras and Pathfinders for close combat and they will perform well with the smoke from Pathfinders, but Bren group is very bad DPS unit. On B Airlanding can't do absolutely n o t h i n g against pioneers and sturmpioneers and that's what you will face most of the times on B. This deck runs out of infantry extremely fast, I have three cards of Airlanding on B and it's a bloody mass grave all the time.
At least a card of ten men squad AB Pioneers or Flamers could somewhat equalize the situation on B but w\o specialists you're getting kicked out of cities and forests without much resistance on your part, and that's where you're supposed to stay strong.

That's the only infantry deck apart of 2nd Infantry to get limited infantry slots but 2nd Infantry has amazing infantry line up and stellar fire support to counter lack of infantry slots.

 

[local-festival]

No other captured unit is captured by elite crew or infantry. Furthermore it's reasonable to assume badass mustached commandos would be just as raw if they pilfered an enemy heavy weapon.

My only argument against 6 pounders is playstyle, I imagine vetted pak 40 and jeep with snipers and vickers teams forming a defensive position so the paras and light tanks can take close quarters areas.

Opinions on other changes?

And the harsh reality of having to fight on more than a narrow patch of land brings you to realisation that w\o a few of cards of an anti tank guns you're fucked beyond repair because any autocannon unit will decimate your helpless infantry. Even halftrucks will become beasts in metal because you have nothing to counter them.

 

[Yung Rommel]

And the harsh reality of having to fight on more than a narrow patch of land brings you to realisation that w\o a few of cards of an anti tank guns you're fucked beyond repair because any autocannon unit will decimate your helpless infantry. Even halftrucks will become beasts in metal because you have nothing to counter them.

Hence handing out smoke grenades like candy, cheaper tetrarchs, and durable PIAT teams for flavor

 

[Herrmaus3r]

What about an artillery tab with options of:

1 card of 2x 81 mm mortars in Phase A with 1 star vet
1 card of 2x Pack Howitzer in Phase A with 1 star vet
1 card of 3x Pack Howitzer in Phase B (I feel the Pack Howitzer can be a middle ground and offer flexibility)
1 card of 2 x 25 pder in Phase C
1 card of 2 x HMS Warpsite in Phase C

I still think your suggestions or even the above are pretty no-brainer. I'd like some enticement to not take Warspite at all which is why I gave them 'a fuck ton of 25ders'

What about like a 4 x card of 81mm mortars with 1 star in Phase C?

I'd be perfectly fine with that tbh.

 

[Bracken]

I agree with OP. But I do not want to get as specific as OP. Also I would not make to many changes at once.

I want cheap anti tank guns in A first. Alternatively make the 75mm in A a 2x or 3x card. This would keep the flavour well. Then Infantry and Artillery should be improved.

I do not want changes to the Mosquito card. I see it in line with other divisions. Air tab is fine imho.

 

[Harold Alexander]

My suggestions:
- 1 card of 2 x 6 pounders on phase A without stars or/ with 1 star.
- Buff Bren Group and AB Paras to 5 units per card.
- Buff Airlanding to 8-9 men.
- Mosquito Pathfinder nerf to 180 pts.
- Tetrarch small buff -5 pts for all tetrarch's including CS version.
- Switch AOP Carrier and Willys OP, AOP carrier x1 on phase A, Willys OP x2 on phase B
- Price drop for a Sniper team.
- 1 card x1 of Cromwell CS on phase A/ 1 card of 2 on phase B.

 

[local-festival]

durable PIAT teams

=D

 

[Yung Rommel]

=D

Hence why I proposed scouts get the piat and the AT squads get 4 men

 

[I WUB PUGS]

Even making PIAT teams into 3 man squads would seem to make them better. Keep the double star. I think the 3rd man would be the one to make it out alive and possibly get a change later to fire the PIAT.

Really, this probably needs to be applied to all 2 man teams. Hoping this is addressed uniformly in the next patch though.