5 working tech teams are not enough!

[S_Stackpole]

It would be more realistic to have more than the current maximum 5 tech teams working. I mean, like Germany which have a tremendous industrial machine wiht lots of company and ressources, why can't it have more than 5 working on war research? confused: Even when we maximize the researsh potential of a country by researching computers and the like, we lose ground every year compared to the historical years of the discoveries because htere are too many researches to do. :

 

[Fgorginator]

It would be more realistic to have more than the current maximum 5 tech teams working. I mean, like Germany which have a tremendous industrial machine wiht lots of company and ressources, why can't it have more than 5 working on war research? confused: Even when we maximize the researsh potential of a country by researching computers and the like, we lose ground every year compared to the historical years of the discoveries because htere are too many researches to do. :

You have a point. You should be able to have more than five techteams because otherwise you have to highly prioritise your techs. You might ditch air transports to research tanks.

 

[Myth]

isn't that pretty historical, though?

 

[Fgorginator]

isn't that pretty historical, though?

Not really you could have more than 5 research teams in reality

 

[Alex_brunius]

I would rather have old techs get a much bigger bonus for research speed than they currently do, perhaps even up to 90% after 2 year. That would help all majors stay max 2 years behind in all trees even if they are rushing some techs. And it would make sure minors isnt patheticlly after on all fronts if they choose smart.

Another option would be to add "extra funding" to boost your more important researches, It could be an additional $, resource or IC cost.

Or you could make blueprint spying easier to succeed, more automated (auto send new spys perhaps) and stop you from getting worthless doctrinetechs you can't use, or make you choose what blueprints to steal yourself.

Limited blueprint trading with friendly countries that isn't in full alliance did take place historically (like germany - jap) and certainly US - UK before USA joined the war. A third example of this would be swedens bofors 40mm AAA blueprints that was widly used by both sides in pretty much all theaters of war. And as you might know, sweden was far from offically allied with anyone during ww2 :rofl:
Perhaps one blueprint per trade max is a good limit.

Further another way would be to award the winning side with captured blueprints after particullary successful land battles against more modern forces. This was common practice and many countries liked some of their enemys weapons so much they renamed them and started producing them themselfs!

Overall I think the 5 team system though works good and can't see why you would want to expand it, there are plenty of other ways to speed up research without screwing with it!

 

[Myth]

Not really you could have more than 5 research teams in reality

yes, but Germany never had modern warships or carriers like the USA did, for example. Britain lagged somewhat behind in tank development, and Japan never really bothered with tanks in the first place. its historical for countries to prioritize. the 5 tech team limit is good.

 

[Berrrie]

Another option would be to add "extra funding" to boost your more important researches, It could be an additional $, resource or IC cost.

That's a good idea IMHO. It's still a trade-off, so you still have to make decisions on either investing in supplies, upgrades, new units, money for spy missions or faster research.

The balancing of this idea is however something else...

Also like your other ideas!

 

[Alex_brunius]

yes, but Germany never had modern warships or carriers like the USA did for example.

I don't agree there, Carriers sure But The Bismarck vs North Carolina would have been a very close matchup If they met in a battle one on one. NC had one more barrel & two more inch on their heavy guns, but Bismarck got superior rate of fire & gunnery training.
In reality it would be US victory by sheer numbers of battleships or since they had better Radar Firecontroll. Not because their warships were more modern. Bismarck was a VERY modern if not the most modern battleship when launched.

Prewar Germans had equal battleship tech, But more or less stopped efforts when the war broke out, the US didn't.

However I do agree with your main point. Everyone have to prioritize.

Prioritize is just what they both did, and a Iowa class warship would most likely have blown the Bismarck out of the water, unless a type XXI uboat got to it first

 

[unmerged(64412)]

It would be more realistic to have more than the current maximum 5 tech teams working. I mean, like Germany which have a tremendous industrial machine wiht lots of company and ressources, why can't it have more than 5 working on war research? confused: Even when we maximize the researsh potential of a country by researching computers and the like, we lose ground every year compared to the historical years of the discoveries because htere are too many researches to do. :

I disagree; on normal difficulty, Germany can keep up with technology across the board without any special effort.

Even on very hard difficulty, Germany can keep (and research on very hard is much slower than normal difficulty). You won't always have the latest technology but for the most important things you should only be a few months behind and even for the least important, you’ll be only one or two years behind especially if you disregard strategic bombers.

This can be done by:

- Researching no technologies more than a year ahead
- Researching only the most urgent technologies early at all
- Allying with Italy and Japan and using their blueprints (sometimes it's necessary to wait before researching something if they're already researching it)
- Build at least one rocket test facility before doing lots of rocket research (this isn't hard before 1942 or so)
- Trade for lots of money in peace time and then steal blueprints from the USA, Britain and the Soviet Union to get the technologies Italy and Japan aren't interested in (like strategic bombing, armour, mechanised and parachute, secret weapons and ). But wait until Germany is quite interventionist before sending spies (otherwise it's too expensive) and wait until you have Italy and Japan’s blueprints before spending lots of money on trying to steal blueprints from your enemies.
- If you puppet other large countries like Nationalist Spain (three tech teams) or even Russia, they’ll give you a lot of blueprints

Once you get a bitter peace with the Soviet Union, they’ll be interested in trading away some money so it should be a few years before Germany runs out of money for stealing blueprints.

You can have about three to four of your tech. teams researching with blueprints. With the nice naval blueprints you can get from Japan, your naval technology can be quite modern without too much effort.

I agree that it's impossible for one tech team countries like New Zealand and South Africa to keep up, even using blueprints. If you want to play these countries, you should consider some aggressive conquests to get another tech. team

 

[kaasbris]

It would be more realistic to have more than the current maximum 5 tech teams working.

As Bughall explained, major countries has no problem with researching.

But I think there are too many tech teams for 5 research slot

Under the current game system, 5 slot is enough.
But I feel still there can be improvement.

There are many many useless tech teams (Douglas of USA, Dwoitine of FRA for example). I am curious why Paradox included them.
Perhpas as historical flavor? then, those can be utilized like this:

There could be option you can put additional tech team for tech slot in question. i.e. To research CV as GER, you put Kriegsmarinewerft as main team, then put Junkers as secondary team.

It will make research faster as much as Junkers can provide its aeronautics skill (which is necessary for CV research), while cost will rise for full Junkers wage.

But it can destory overall balance of current version, so there should be penalty to use it - like X% for country's overall research efficiency to represent the difficulty of co-working (while in game terms, to prevent abusive use of this function).

It will be good option when CV should be developed at all cost.

However, for HOI3, I wish overhall for research part. I wish more tech teams (5 reaserch slot is fine) with mix-match fun.

 

[Alex_brunius]

...But I think there are too many tech teams for 5 research slot...

...However, for HOI3, I wish overhall for research part. I wish more tech teams (5 reaserch slot is fine) with mix-match fun.

So, wait. You think that while we currently have to many techteams it would be best to include even more for HoI3 :rofl:

Perhaps Im missunderstanding something, care to elaborate?

 

[unmerged(64412)]

There could be option you can put additional tech team for tech slot in question. i.e. To research CV as GER, you put Kriegsmarinewerft as main team, then put Junkers as secondary team.

It will make research faster as much as Junkers can provide its aeronautics skill (which is necessary for CV research), while cost will rise for full Junkers wage.

But it can destory overall balance of current version, so there should be penalty to use it - like X% for country's overall research efficiency to represent the difficulty of co-working (while in game terms, to prevent abusive use of this function).

It's a nice idea

It could work like this:

If you want to use two tech teams, you have to pay the wages of both for the entire length of research (that's already a big disincentive).

Then for each of the five components of research, the fastest tech. team could research that component. So for the carrier example, Kriegsmarine does all of the research apart from the aircraft component - which Junkers does.

It would increase the value of money in the game and it would benefit the Allies slightly more than the Axis because they have easier access to money.

 

[Fgorginator]

I always wondered why you could only have one techteam working on each thing.

 

[Hawk_345]

i find the curent system good, but maybe 6 could be beter, 1 for naval, 1 for air, 1 for land, 1 for industry, one for doctrens and stuff like imp-computer, 1 for armour/ brigades. that is for large countrys.

 

[I Killed Kenny]

totatly WAD

 

[Lord Finnish]

meh, no techteams, return the tect system of HoI1 ! ! !

HoI1 tech system was so cool, if Germany puts all IC to technology, it could reserach everything at the same time

 

[unmerged(59227)]

Slightly OT, but research related...


I think for each technology you wish to research, different tech teams effectively "bid" for it. Like in reality. So if I wished to research "advanced fighter" as UK I would recieve tenders from:

Supermarine
Hawker
Avro
etc.

So, instead of matching tech teams to a set of skills / specialities for research, all of their attributes should all be hidden and instead, each of them would say:

Cost = X per day
Estimated completion = Y days

(+/- hidden random variables, so not all projects actually get delivered when they say they will and costs go up (also like real life))


The player would then select a tech team to deliver a piece of work against a set time and cost.

However, it could include a manual option that would increase X thus decreasing Y and vice versa. This could be viewed as a "rush" option whereby extra money gets thrown at a project and a mothball option where the plans are stored and the project kinda ticks over waiting for additional funding... (Maybe non capitalists could spend IC instead of $$$...?)

Of course, each country would then be limited in tech team slots by how much it could *afford* to spend. So, similar to the Production window, different research could be prioritised at the expense of other research.

Finally, the output should differ from project to project. So, for example, if the advanced fighter was produced by Supermarine and it was well funded, it would produce a superior plane to one produced by Hawker or Avro which had erratic funding.


Whaddaya think? At least it would make money more useful than it currently is...

 

[Fgorginator]

meh, no techteams, return the tect system of HoI1 ! ! !

HoI1 tech system was so cool, if Germany puts all IC to technology, it could reserach everything at the same time

I agree. Go Germany !!

 

[unmerged(50949)]

Well from reading posts it looks like there are more people thinking along same lines as myself and current friends playing Hoi DD.

I like the Idea about doubling up some tech teams at the cost of more money as one way of maybe a patch. Think some one mentioned this not sure how the money double was ment to be either straight daily increase with both tech team salary added togethor as starter and or a straight up cash advancement like a goverment grant as well. So that you would have to pay 100 dollars upfront to set up the 2 to work togethor and also pay them there daily wage.

Now what I was thinking is why not incorperate this another way since you have 5 tech teams researching already keeping the IC effect already in game for how many tech teams country can have at 1 time is fine for this. You usualy have techs going all diffrent kinds all working on there individual techs each has its specific specialty. Not going to mention specific techs for any country just to show how it be used for any country. They already have the skill level implemented for tech teams to show that countrys historical Tech power. So for that we let go on way side for this example just going to focus on the tech teams specialtys in play. AS some one mentioned most people will put 1 tech team focusin gon Air unit upgrades , Another for land and sea and so forth so why could you not gain benifit from there specialties across at a possible pentality in time development. Wich would maybe be offset by how many Artilary specialty techs are in use at that time. So as when you are researching Infantry tech your Tech team probly has Eqiupment , artilary as a specialty well you will have same for tank research team as well and possibly some naval unit / air unit tech team this be 3 specialty boxs showing in tech tree at that given time till you finish a specific blueprint and decide to swap out tech but for that time being you should beable to some how gain benifit from this since each blue print has a patern of when things are completed and worked on So for example you have 2 air specialtys in row lighted up for some air plane blue print soon as switchs to the electronic part its Aeronoic division should beable to work on say your Naval air carry tech research if your ship tech team research is at that point in time. This may be hard to plan on or program and maybe why they left this out.

Now another aspect my friend brought up since he likes to play italy is why do tech teams not gain skill exp for completing blue prints. IF you use a tech team alot as time goes on should move up in skill wich in turn increases tech team salary but would help keep you in line with researching historical blue prints instead of relying on gaining from allies later on and being 2 years behind everyone. And or have the chance to maybe gain specialty skill in certain area;s if you are currently using same tech team over and over again to advance in special tech tree such as Industrie or computers as well. Put in like the 4 star 5 star exp system that they use for units in game and give the option to promote the tech team a skill level and or change specialty wich you would probly have to use both skill level increase to certain number before you can change a specialty box to keep it from being over powerfull for some countries but when changing specialty you would take a skill level down grade of certain number maybe to help balance this way of doing techs So at first say US and Germany having some skill of 9 tech teams if you want them right off bat in 1936 to change and learn a specialty wich be more suitable for say computer research then they would lose like 4 skill levels wich in turn would take longer to research computer techs enough at first few years to make up for the 50 percent bonous having specialty boxs for all components of the tech blue print. Would have to put some more thought into this aspect of doing blue print research teams.

Now some may disagree with this out look being that Hoi was intended more to be a historical game then a free for all World war game but in real life do we not all learn from our tasks and do we not all aspire to learn new and come up with new ideas so for a tech team being smart people would think that after years of devotion to crunching the numbers and working on the mechanics of things could learn and or higher new people to the division / ferm to keep them strong. Wich I think they need to implement a scenario that would go along this line for those that do not want to do straight up historical out comes.

Hopefully my thoughts are some what understandable and maybe draw a thought from some of you all. If not I appologies as I just skimmed through the posts now and then and just thought maybe to toss my 2 cents in in hopes maybe the game developers may pass by and see what the population is looking for as in there wonderful game.

 

[kaasbris]

I like the Idea about doubling up some tech teams at the cost of more money as one way of maybe a patch. Think some one mentioned this not sure how the money double was ment to be either straight daily increase with both tech team salary added togethor as starter and or a straight up cash advancement like a goverment grant as well. So that you would have to pay 100 dollars upfront to set up the 2 to work togethor and also pay them there daily wage.

Advance payment (say, 100 money, while paying full wages for two teams) when using double team sounds good idea.

Now another aspect my friend brought up since he likes to play italy is why do tech teams not gain skill exp for completing blue prints.

Not sure about it. Exp gain calculation to balance all countries will be very hard job. Also, game system represent each tech team has flat number of skil level for all its skill components (e.g. Udet has skill 7 for all Piloting, Combined arms, etc.) Without changing it to each skill level for each component (e.g. Ude has skill 8 for Piloting, while 5 for Combined arms), it doesn't seem fair.