5/5 games same result: Republican Spain overrun in 1937

[MobiusTwo]

I'm not sure how well this contributes to the conversation, but I have played a decent number of games in the current build and I feel that Republican Spain is stronger than it's been in years (anyone else remember that one version where they would win about 75% of the time?). Yes, the Anarchists can really mess up the Republicans, but the Carlist/Falangist uprising can also doom the Nationalists. I have seen the Republicans win 3 or more times since La Resistance was released, which is much more than I can remember seeing in Man the Guns.

That said, the Anarchists are really wack and I don't really like the way they are implemented at all, starting with the fact that they are non-aligned.

 

[Icedkk]

Well in most of my games Republicans wins, even if I intervene via 3 German Panzer units. What usually happens is Nationalists pushes to Barcelona and then Anarsist just spawn over them.

I usually go defend south around Madrid, then Carlists spawns at North, cut us from supplies, and Republicans win again against a disturbed Nationalist/Carlist front.

Sometimes my Panzer divisions are sent back, because no idea??

Sometimes they aren't sent back and stuck encircled, because of this random spawning of new spanish nations...

One extreme was my 3 Panzer units were sent back, however I received only 2 of them... Basically lost bunch of Panzers around somewhere in Spanish Mountains...

I would really glad if you let Germany or other nations who sent Volunteers see where we may attack without unplanned attack or weather penalties like Spanish nations...

PS: Non-Historical Focuses. v1.9.2

 

[MR2]

LaR = Let anarchists Rule?

 

[blahmaster6k]

The Carlists will never spawn on historical AI focuses because Franco goes down the focus path that appeases them.

 

[Gefallener_Held]

Playing as Germany, I see Soviet volunteers everytime. i do see air volunteers briefly but they get pulled.

 

[Ketchup & friends]

While the Anarchist uprising (that leads to a 3-way War) is a severe blow for Republican Spain, they are losing too fast even without the DLC.

Histocially, the Nationalists were slowly grinding their way through republican defences for almost 3 years.

The Goal should be to make the SCW last longer without making the Republican side more likely to win.

In order to achieve this, they should get some massive boosts for defensive combat. A national spirit (could be named Hold the Line or something like that) seems like the easiest way to achieve this.

 

[Vityviktor]

I think the Anarchists (Regional Defense Council) should spawn as some kind of puppet or ally (maybe in a faction just like the Chinese United Front) of the Spanish Republic during the first days of the war (in fact the RDC of Aragon existed between 1936 and 1937). They both would fight the Nationalists instead of each other. Also, this way, they could be chosen as a playable "nation" earlier (via event). Then, the Spanish Republic could choose to regain control of their territory via events or foci (maybe by concessions, and thus expanding anarchist influence all over the Republican areas; maybe by repression, going along the Stalinist line). If it's done badly, then they would "revolt" and fight the Republicans along the Nationalists.

Something similar could be done with the Carlists, going quite ahistorical. Imagine Carlists gaining a foothold in Navarra, Aragon and Eastern Castile, as a Nationalist puppet or ally against the Republicans. The process would be different, as they should only appear if the Nationalists do something wrong, like failing to consolidate power, or by the Falangists taking over, and maybe it could be something uncommon. They would turn against the Nationalists if they're angry enought (full-Falangist fascism, not-Carlist monarchy restored, Franco becoming too liberal, etc) or if the Nationalists chose to repress them.

Anything, please.

 

[pdstanbridge]

I've seen this and way more than five times in a row. Even when I play as a different country and send volunteers to the AI Republicans they still lose and I'm trying to establish why.

At the beginning of the war the Republicans usually have more divisions, more territory, more factories and more inf weapons and on paper they have favourable odds. The things I am seeing regularly, Soviet AI will send 7 divisions, usually mountain divisions, but not use them properly. They tend to disperse all over the map, and half the time they join the front line but sit there. The German and Italian AI appears more aggressive. The Germans always send armour, and with their mobile warfare doctrine have a far better chance of piercing the front line than infantry. You often find a spearhead forming which the Nationalists use to their advantage.

Nationalists only start with a couple of mil factories and hardly any inf weapons but they are quickly supported by lend lease, and volunteers which helps exponentially. In fact, they manage to stockpile more inf weapons than the Republicans as a result.

The anarchist uprising is the killing blow in my opinion. As the Republicans flounder on the front line trying to deal with the continuous AI spearheads from Germany and Italy, the anarchists steal a large chunk of land inc Barcelona with its factories and resources. The Republican Ai is inept at dealing with this in any way. As a result out of a dozen games I've played through, the war finishes early 10 out of 12 times. Once the Anarchists appear and streghten that front line, the Republicans cannot deal with a two pronged attack. They have also lost a lot of their resources, factories and land by this point.

In my opinion a way to curtail this would be simply to lessen the effects from the uprising. Make it smaller, but give them more divisions perhaps. So they have a fighting chance against the Nationalists and the Republicans, whilst not stealing all the Republican resources.

 

[papapyro]

I think people's suggestions to changing how the anarchists spawn is going the completely wrong way about it - THEY SHOULD NOT BE ON THE MAP AT ALL IN HISTORICAL MODE! Let the May Days be handled by events or possibly the Republicans losing their cores on Catalonia and having to deal with resistance there, but this whole idea of the anarchists being represented as an organised uprising that took control of vast swathes of territory is completely ahistorical AND it causes the war to end ahistorically early because the game's braindead AI can't deal with it

 

[pdstanbridge]

Ive just played this through as France, and supported R. Spain via volunteers. Even with my 4 divisions and 139 aircraft, and Russia's 7 divisions as soon as the Anarchists spawned it was game over. Well, it would have been, until I joined in the fight proper. Then I wiped the floor with them. The Nationalists had nearly 500,000 casualties at wars end and that isnt including the encircled Italian, German AND Portuguese divisions I destroyed. Is that even possible I find myself thinking. But that appears to be the best way to help Republican Spain.

 

[Vityviktor]

I think people's suggestions to changing how the anarchists spawn is going the completely wrong way about it - THEY SHOULD NOT BE ON THE MAP AT ALL IN HISTORICAL MODE! Let the May Days be handled by events or possibly the Republicans losing their cores on Catalonia and having to deal with resistance there, but this whole idea of the anarchists being represented as an organised uprising that took control of vast swathes of territory is completely ahistorical AND it causes the war to end ahistorically early because the game's braindead AI can't deal with it

Maybe some local negative modifiers in places with significant Anarchist power (Catalonia, Aragon and Andalusia), or global stability, manpower, etc hits. Losing manpower and industry (due to strikes) in these areas, or maybe even having units suffering attrition (street fighting, desertion) would be bad for the Republicans in any case. I do like the idea of an organized Anarchist uprising, but it should be really uncommon for the AI (at least with Historical Focus settings on), only happening it things really go out of control or if the player or ahistorical AI actively goes for that particular branch of the Focus Tree.

 

[Natethegreat]

honestly i think the anarchists should be removed from happening with the ai unless you check them before the game. Historically they were not that powerful at all and they really weaken the Republicans.

 

[Vityviktor]

I'm not an expert, but from what I've read, the Catalonian syndicalist unions had an ambiguous relation with the Republican government until the May Days when they got rid of their most radical elements. They were then fully integrated and got their own ministers, etc. From what I've understood, the game portrays the Republican side terribly on that matter. Correct me if I'm wrong.

The CNT was indeed one of the main syndicalist union in the whole Spain (the other one beig the marxist UGT), with Catalonia being their "stronghold" as one of the most industrialized regions. Also, these Anarchist ministers were, in fact, supporters of the government and the anti-fascist unity, with Juan García Oliver (Anarchist minister of Justice) even calling for a ceasefire during the May Days. But their influence diminished after Largo Caballero resigned and Juan Negrín became PM, with PCE (communist) influence on the rise (due to the dependance on Soviet support, and the lack of trust on the CNT and POUM).

Indeed, the Republican is portrayed with a lot of detail, but some things are quite wrong, like the massive and almost unevitable Anarchist uprising, the Republic winning the war but ending up as a Soviet puppet (which is also painful in the gameplay level, given how wars do work right now), and the complete lack of any kind of Non Invervention Comitee mechanic which could be subverted and explored in alternate historical ways (for example allowing some democratic nations, like interventionist USA, "no further appeasement" UK, or France to back the Republic, fighting fascism while diminishing communist influence).

 

[FindFloppies]

Five is not a big enough sample. Over 50 games, approximately, I've seen about 40% Republican, 40% Nationalist, and about 20% Anarchists winning. I haven't seen the Carlists win, but I've seen them play spoiler a lot...

 

[sekelsenmat]

I think people's suggestions to changing how the anarchists spawn is going the completely wrong way about it - THEY SHOULD NOT BE ON THE MAP AT ALL IN HISTORICAL MODE! Let the May Days be handled by events or possibly the Republicans losing their cores on Catalonia and having to deal with resistance there, but this whole idea of the anarchists being represented as an organised uprising that took control of vast swathes of territory is completely ahistorical AND it causes the war to end ahistorically early because the game's braindead AI can't deal with it

The anarchists shouldn't exist, but they are not the cause of the Republicans dying too fast. Just look at the units on the map. Republicans fight the entire war with crap 3 inf and stuf like that. As the war goes on the Nationalists get more and more 7/2, I think they have easily 15 of those by mid 37. The Republicans cant hold anything as soon as the -90% disappears. In reality the Republicans had artillery at war start, famously used it against the Toledo Alcazar.