5/5 games same result: Republican Spain overrun in 1937

[Mirage2k]

I've been running some experiments with different NF paths recently, and noticed that the SCW seems very one sided now. From what I can see, three things in particular skew it that way, as they happen every time:
1) Republican forces in the North around Asturias are surrounded and wiped in a couple of weeks, increasing the Nationalist army advantage and giving them more military factories.
2) I don't see any Soviet Volunteers, only Germans and Italians.
3) Anarchists rise in Catalonia, further weakening the Republicans.

It seems like a bug that it goes this way every time, and that the SCW ends in mid to late 1937. It lasts about half as long as it historically did, which also affects the important other countries that get involved. Are others getting the same results, consistently another result or more variation?

 

[Hoi Neuling]

Then you have to check the Gamefiles in the last 2 Points. Or you have forgotten the correct attitudes in the beginning screen to set the Difficulty Why?

A) You have to set the hook for Realism Focuses!
B) You have to set the other attitudes in the more options Menue (historical Spain, historical USA etc etc etc.)

Now to your other Problems.

1) That´s correct, because that´s the true beginning of the Spanish Civil War. It´s exactly the same Beginning before Version 1.9 and absolutely historical.

2) If you set the other Attitudes in the more Options Menue correctly then you will see Soviet Volunteers for Republican Spain. In my Game they send Fighters, Bombers, 1 light Tank Devision, 1 Mounteneer-Devision and 2 or 3 others.

3) That´s correctly too, because you had 3 Factions later. That´s absolutely historical.

And if you have set everything correctly and let the Generals do their job, the Spanish Civil War will End at End 1938 or Beginning 1939.

 

[sekelsenmat]

Yes, yes, I've been saying this. It is too unsided! Ahistorically so! The republican troops were inferior, and they should lose, but at the start they outnumbered nationalists 2 to 1 in most fronts. In the games the nationalists are a juggernought which can only be stopped by a very determined Soviet player.

2) I don't see any Soviet Volunteers, only Germans and Italians.

Try 1.9.2 beta, they said that this was a bug and they fixed it in the beta. I have been playing as Soviets lately so can't confirm it is fixed.

 

[Mirage2k]

Yes, yes, I've been saying this. It is too unsided! Ahistorically so! The republican troops were inferior, and they should lose, but at the start they outnumbered nationalists 2 to 1 in most fronts. In the games the nationalists are a juggernought which can only be stopped by a very determined Soviet player.



Try 1.9.2 beta, they said that this was a bug and they fixed it in the beta. I have been playing as Soviets lately so can't confirm it is fixed.

Thanks, good to hear I'm not the only one seeing this and that the soviet volunteers are fixed in the latest version. I'll sign up for it and see if they can prolong the fight a little bit.

Infiltrating the army of both nations, the intel ledger shows deployed manpower in December 1969 is about 2 to 1 in favor of the nationalists; 4 times better ration than they should historically have. I don't expect the soviets to turn that tide, it's a bigger balance issue.

Off the top of my head I think it would make sense to cut the starting nationalist numbers down to equal Rep. Spain, but give them an easier time lifting the SCW combat penalties so that they gain quality advantage over time. That way they won't have such an effective offensive in 1936 and early 1937 as they do now, while still leading to victory in 38-39 unless serious luck or player involvement pushes it the other way.

 

[Hoi Neuling]

The Nationalists have in August to Dezember 1936 only 3 or 4 Devisions more. In January 1937 the Communists have the Advantage.

Focusses and other internal Problems hold the Balance for both later 3 Fighting-Party’s (Nationalists / Comintern's or Neutrals / later Defense of Catalonia).

I played the 1.9.1 Beta / 1.9.1 Full and Communist / Neutral Spain accepted every time the Russia Volunteers with minimum 4 Devision and Airforce.

The only Problem is that the fighters are not fighting each other (Germany. vs. Communists).

Tested it 4 or 5 Times with complete new Games and different Countries. The only Thing I think of is that earlier DLC’s are missing.
Or you got a problem with the Dataset.

 

[sekelsenmat]

The Nationalists have in August to Dezember 1936 only 3 or 4 Devisions more. In January 1937 the Communists have the Advantage.

You can't compare the division count only. The republicans have only crap 3-battalion divisions, while half of the republican divisions are "Army of Africa" with artillery & all.

The only thing that holds the Nationalists back is the -90%, once it disappears the war ends.

The only Problem is that the fighters are not fighting each other (Germany. vs. Communists).

Yes they are, since they fixed it in 1.9.1 final.

 

[Áurum]

Then you have to check the Gamefiles in the last 2 Points. Or you have forgotten the correct attitudes in the beginning screen to set the Difficulty Why?

A) You have to set the hook for Realism Focuses!
B) You have to set the other attitudes in the more options Menue (historical Spain, historical USA etc etc etc.)

Now to your other Problems.

1) That´s correct, because that´s the true beginning of the Spanish Civil War. It´s exactly the same Beginning before Version 1.9 and absolutely historical.

2) If you set the other Attitudes in the more Options Menue correctly then you will see Soviet Volunteers for Republican Spain. In my Game they send Fighters, Bombers, 1 light Tank Devision, 1 Mounteneer-Devision and 2 or 3 others.

3) That´s correctly too, because you had 3 Factions later. That´s absolutely historical.

And if you have set everything correctly and let the Generals do their job, the Spanish Civil War will End at End 1938 or Beginning 1939.

No, the northern front falling in weeks is not historical.
No, the anarchist uprising taking all of Catalonia and Eastern Aragon and becoming a major part of the war is not historical.
You don't know what you are talking about.

Yes, the OP is right, the SCW is still very unbalanced and ends too early, and the main reason is the anarchist uprising, after that Franco steamrolls the weakened Republic.

 

[Hoi Neuling]

I know exactly what I‘m saying. Have you done a full BETA-Test or Freelancer-Work (like Historians, Workers, Modders) after a whole Working-Day on the evening after you come home, to help the Devs for upgrading the Game Step by Step?!

A 100% historical Gameplay you won’t get. You can be happy if you get with us Freelancers and the Devs a 90% to 95% historical Gameplay, especially AI Focusses / Desicions.

 

[sekelsenmat]

No, the anarchist uprising taking all of Catalonia and Eastern Aragon and becoming a major part of the war is not historical.
You don't know what you are talking about.

I thought that too, but this Wikipedia page claims that Catalonia/Aragon was de facto independent and kind of anarchist.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolutionary_Catalonia

And multiple sources will confirm that after Catalonia no longer had a land connection to Valencia, it was no longer ruled by the central power.

To me it is a big contradiction with the May days having lost and with the Stalinists crackdown in Aragon... no idea how it can be possible for the anarchists to lose multiple times and somehow emerge as the power ...

I searched as much as I could but couldn't easily find this detail of who was in charge of Catalunia during the civil war (meaning if the power there was Stalinist or Anarchist). It surely can't be both at the same time.

No, the northern front falling in weeks is not historical.....
Yes, the OP is right, the SCW is still very unbalanced and ends too early, and the main reason is the anarchist uprising, after that Franco steamrolls the weakened Republic.

I totally agree that the northern front falling in weeks is bad and in general it is bad that it is so unbalanced. Well, it's better then the republicans winning every time, but the balance is so bad that it is sad to take part as an Axis power. You can't attack because otherwise you finish the enemy off too quickly...

But I don't agree that the anarchist Catalonia is the main reason. It just seems like that because when it falls the troops that were there all arrive in a wave. If the same amount of republican troops were there as currently are anarchist ones, then Republican Catalunia would fall as well and the end date would be the same.

Republican Spain just has too few battalions (not divisions) compared with Nationalist Spain. They should have a similar battalion count, meaning Rep Spain should have many more division since they have crap 3-battalion divisions.

The Republican divisions should have support ART, it is clearly stated that they had art here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_the_Alcázar

>>>The Republican forces dispatched to Toledo consisted of approximately 8,000 men of the militias of the FAI, CNT and the UGT. They had several pieces of artillery, a few armored cars, and two or three tankettes. The Republican Air Force performed reconnaissance, spotted for the artillery and bombed the Alcázar on 35 occasions.<<<

 

[Federkiel]

No, the northern front falling in weeks is not historical.
No, the anarchist uprising taking all of Catalonia and Eastern Aragon and becoming a major part of the war is not historical.

Yes, the OP is right, the SCW is still very unbalanced and ends too early, and the main reason is the anarchist uprising, after that Franco steamrolls the weakened Republic.

Matches my own observations exactly. But i have not yet tried the beta, admittedly.

Do the Soviets really make a difference? I hope they don't send 9 ARM divs or something like this in the beta...

 

[sekelsenmat]

I know exactly what I‘m saying. Have you done a full BETA-Test or Freelancer-Work (like Historians, Workers, Modders) after a whole Working-Day on the evening after you come home, to help the Devs for upgrading the Game Step by Step?!

A 100% historical Gameplay you won’t get. You can be happy if you get with us Freelancers and the Devs a 90% to 95% historical Gameplay, especially AI Focusses / Desicions.

I don't see why it would be bad to point how something could be even better.

Besides it would help the discussion if you provided sources to your affirmations instead of just "I know what I am saying". I am especially interested in sources confirming that anarchists really ruled Catalonia+Aragon during the SCW. Also anything on the order of battle of both sides, showing how much artillery they had, etc.

Matches my own observations exactly. But i have not yet tried the beta, admittedly.

Do the Soviets really make a difference? I hope they don't send 9 ARM divs or something like this in the beta...

Of course it makes a lot of a difference, 5-6 strong units in a place where the republicans have only trash divisions, but the republicans are so weak that it doesn't change the war end date much.

 

[Federkiel]

Of course it makes a lot of a difference, 5-6 strong units in a place where the republicans have only trash divisions, but the republicans are so weak that it doesn't change the war end date much.

So in effect it makes no difference.

As far as i can see, the anarchist uprising in Catalonia really is what breaks the Republicans. They use to make a good stand until then. Afterwards they totally break on all spots of the front.

Hopfully the devs can iron that out before we get the official patch.

 

[sekelsenmat]

As far as i can see, the anarchist uprising in Catalonia really is what breaks the Republicans. They use to make a good stand until then. Afterwards they totally break on all spots of the front..

I still think this is just a coincidence. They make a good stand because of the -90%, and when it ends (starts ending because it is a process) they start dying. This happens in a similar date as the Catalonia thing but is not caused by it.

 

[Áurum]

I thought that too, but this Wikipedia page claims that Catalonia/Aragon was de facto independent and kind of anarchist.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolutionary_Catalonia

And multiple sources will confirm that after Catalonia no longer had a land connection to Valencia, it was no longer ruled by the central power.

To me it is a big contradiction with the May days having lost and with the Stalinists crackdown in Aragon... no idea how it can be possible for the anarchists to lose multiple times and somehow emerge as the power ...

I searched as much as I could but couldn't easily find this detail of who was in charge of Catalunia during the civil war (meaning if the power there was Stalinist or Anarchist). It surely can't be both at the same time.

From what I know, I can tell there was no Anarchist uprising against the Republic/Communists, but rather a Republican/Communist one against the Anarchists. Anarchists had seized power in 1936 and did their stuff, it was later when the Republic crushed them aided by the PCE and Soviet agents.

If devs want to include Anarchists in the game, they should appear in the civil war from the beginning and neutral to the Republic, so they don't fight each other, and it's the Republic who decides to crush them. However, it shouldn't be just war because it was street violence, not regular war, so the Republic should annex the Anarchists for some maluses representing the violence there was, and with most Anarchist units being removed. The idea is that the front doesn't change too much short term.

Nationalists shouldn't just walk into Anarchist territory while the Republic does nothing like happens now.

 

[DaleDVM]

I agree with the OP. I have had to pull my punches as Germany in Spain in hopes to make the conflict last a little longer. I hate that feeling.

 

[Bernard Brocast]

From my observations one of the biggest problems, apart from the anarchists, is the inability of the ai to use national foci. After the Anarchist uprising, which the ai always makes happen, it starts with "Train troops" or "construction" repeatabel foci (which naturally are a waste of time at that point). Mainly because there are political advisor prerequisites for foci, which the ai can't manage.

Therefore it misses out on free troops and always keeps the "disbanded army"-modifier. In combination with german tanks and fighters against 3-battalion Divisions, republican spain does not stand a chance.

 

[MR2]

As Germany, I send one field marshal with four one division armies (each with air assets). Each has a general. I send one general to do mountains, one to cross rivers, one hit the cities, and the armor division to encircle. Taking it slow builds experience and traits. When Japan/China get into it, I take 30 days to wrap up the SCW (giving the Asians time to wear each other a bit) before jumping in and slowly finishing China by 1939.

 

[Cavalry]

I play a vanilla LaR game and now Germany and Italy send a lot of air. This may explain why the Republic lost quite quick.
The Axis air is on the right, the left is my France air volunteer. Probably no one in Spain has AA yet.

 

[papapyro]

Maybe if Paradox took out their bizarro world fantasy where the Anarchist uprising takes half the Republicans' territory, rather than just being a minor uprising in Barcelona, this problem could be averted somewhat...

 

[Admiral Fischer]

Just lost my entire expeditionary army to the ahistorical and balance-killing Anarchist uprising as they took entire the Aragonese region away and cut all supplies to my troops.

GG. I should've known better.