40 width for major nations?

[N3UTR0N]

Sorry, I have noob question.

Mainly as USA, Germany, and USSR I should instantly focus from the start of the game on making 40 width divisions? I ask this because 40 width divisions are more powerfull than 20 divisions, so thats who I ask if as a large major nations I should instantly go for 40 width divisions.


Also, as for soviet union, can I start build military factories at the start of the game, or I should build civilian factories first before going for military factories?

 

[Darth.]

You can't support 40 width divisions at game start so don't bother. That's suicide. Quantity over quality. Especially since that 'quality' will have supply issues and won't be at 100% fighting strength.

I actually go full ham on Soviet civilian factories by deleting all cavalry and downsizing my army to 70 veteran units and spend 2-3 years building civilian factories and infrastructure with the occasional military factory. Like every 3 civilian factories I build 1 military. Until I reach 100 civilian factories. Then I start pumping out those military factories at an insane rate and can import a crap-ton of resources using Export focus (I find free trade isn't worth it that much since I get about 5-6 civilian factories at most and spend 7-8 trading for resources) Admittedly that's because I rarely pick up even 1 level of excavation tech before 1945-46 (I just switch to limited exports) but the sheer manpower and civilian factories you have offsets the resource disadvantage. Mass Assault for the win.

 

[swm]

USA can afford to field 40w if you're going for a historical or later war start. Germany should probably stick to 20w early on, and look into retooling for 40w after France. No comment on the Soviets, although their NKVD modifier neutralizes one of the big advantages to lower width units (easier reinforcements). Keep in mind you can use the Duplicate button to phase in 40w once you have the factories, so it's not suicide to do it at war so long as you're not updating units on the front.

 

[Darth.]

USA can afford to field 40w if you're going for a historical or later war start. Germany should probably stick to 20w early on, and look into retooling for 40w after France. No comment on the Soviets, although their NKVD modifier neutralizes one of the big advantages to lower width units (easier reinforcements). Keep in mind you can use the Duplicate button to phase in 40w once you have the factories, so it's not suicide to do it at war so long as you're not updating units on the front.

I don't think the USA can do that considering the negative modifiers to factory output and construction speed unless you mean deleting half your divisions and using those supplies to make your other half stronger. But that just puts an unnecessary strain on the economy and the giant will likely struggle to awake.

 

[a_sophist]

Mind that 40 width divisions, which are certainly better for attack than 20, are not categorically better in all circumstances. There is a lot of value in having organization distributed across many quickly interchangeable divisions, particularly as countries with lots of manpower like the Soviets. Regarding civ/mil, as you play the game more you'll get an idea of how many strategic resources you'll need to produce everything you want to, and can then tailor your production to allow you enough civs to trade while still being able to build.

 

[a_sophist]

I don't think the USA can do that considering the negative modifiers to factory output and construction speed unless you mean deleting half your divisions and using those supplies to make your other half stronger. But that just puts an unnecessary strain on the economy and the giant will likely struggle to awake.

Unless you plan on going to war before they did historically it's certainly possible to get at least a dozen 40 width divisions after Giant Awakes. Build infrastructure and docks until you get partial mobilization and then all mils.

 

[Gort11]

I find a quick-and-dirty ratio for civilian to military factories that increases your military production while still giving you enough civilian factories to trade for the resources your military factories need and continue building more factories is one civilian factory to three military factories. Obviously that ratio changes if you're playing a country with a ton of native resources, or a country with few native resources.

You can also swap in refineries in place of civilian factories if you're mostly lacking rubber or oil, and this will change a fair bit once the new patch hits and refineries become more powerful and versatile.

 

[N3UTR0N]

Still if I we're to swap some of my divisions to 40 width, which divisions are worth to switch to that width? Should it be a mountain divisions and medium tank divisions?

I just played as soviet union, and switched my regular infantry division to 40 width (2 artilery and rest is regular infantry), and I also made a 40 width medium tank divisions. I just want to ask, I made the right 40 width divisions?


Though, I managed to defeat germany, right when they declared war on me, my army instantly started to push the germans back, however that cost me loads of casualities. When I defeated the axis in europe, I had like 6 Million casualities, while the axis had only around 2 million casualities, is that normal or I'm a noob?


Though, I still feel very damn proud defeating the germans as the soviet union, it felts so good for me to do that the first time (Previous times I played as Russia, I usualy failed against the germans.)

 

[a_sophist]

The "standard" infantry template is 14/4, so only having 2 artillery is a reason for the heavy casualties (not enough soft attack). Don't bother counter attacking the Germans until their planning bonus runs out, by which time most of their units will probably be under strength and easy to roll over. Using the battle planner, if you were, is a guaranteed way to rack up casualties (not that Soviets can't afford them), so learn to micromanage the front and pick the battles you'll have the easiest time winning. Also, don't get used to spamming 40 width special forces since WtT is putting a battalion (not division) limit on them.

 

[Baron Jukaga]

I like my horde of 10w divisions as the SU and similar countries. 40 hits like a truck for sure but org can be a problem on defense because replacements might not reinforce in time. Historically the SU used smaller formations than the other countries, and there's some flavour to having hundreds of minions to do your bidding.

 

[Gort11]

Still if I we're to swap some of my divisions to 40 width, which divisions are worth to switch to that width? Should it be a mountain divisions and medium tank divisions?

I just played as soviet union, and switched my regular infantry division to 40 width (2 artilery and rest is regular infantry), and I also made a 40 width medium tank divisions. I just want to ask, I made the right 40 width divisions?


Though, I managed to defeat germany, right when they declared war on me, my army instantly started to push the germans back, however that cost me loads of casualities. When I defeated the axis in europe, I had like 6 Million casualities, while the axis had only around 2 million casualities, is that normal or I'm a noob?


Though, I still feel very damn proud defeating the germans as the soviet union, it felts so good for me to do that the first time (Previous times I played as Russia, I usualy failed against the germans.)

Did you have air superiority and CAS planes bombing the Germans at all points? This swings things massively in your favour.

As others have said, you should also let the Germans punch themselves tired on your front line before making any infantry offensives of your own. Tank offensives are fine since tanks take fewer casualties when they attack than when they defend. I'd probably watch for the German divisions to drop below about 60% equipment before launching any "big pushes" of your own with your infantry.

Mass assault doctrine is the weakest tree, also, you should switch to a better one at the start of the game.

 

[N3UTR0N]

Did you have air superiority and CAS planes bombing the Germans at all points? This swings things massively in your favour.

As others have said, you should also let the Germans punch themselves tired on your front line before making any infantry offensives of your own. Tank offensives are fine since tanks take fewer casualties when they attack than when they defend. I'd probably watch for the German divisions to drop below about 60% equipment before launching any "big pushes" of your own with your infantry.

Mass assault doctrine is the weakest tree, also, you should switch to a better one at the start of the game.

I built and used alot of Aircraft, mainly build fighters, and transport planes (DIdnt used them), I though on building fighters only because I though bombers are useless...

Also, for soviet union, should I go for Firepower doctrine, or which I should switch for?

 

[TheMeInTeam]

The "standard" infantry template is 14/4, so only having 2 artillery is a reason for the heavy casualties (not enough soft attack). Don't bother counter attacking the Germans until their planning bonus runs out, by which time most of their units will probably be under strength and easy to roll over. Using the battle planner, if you were, is a guaranteed way to rack up casualties (not that Soviets can't afford them), so learn to micromanage the front and pick the battles you'll have the easiest time winning. Also, don't get used to spamming 40 width special forces since WtT is putting a battalion (not division) limit on them.

2 artillery in 40 width should still out damage (and take less) 2 artillery in 20 width, and even the 20 width version easily beats 10:1 casualties against the AI when handled well (I have done so with pure 20w infantry + support stuff, no line arty at all). If he's taking bad casualty ratios with 40 width infantry/some artillery, template composition is not the leading factor. I'm more inclined to suspect micromanagement choices or broad strategic mistakes causing the poor casualty rate.

 

[Gort11]

I built and used alot of Aircraft, mainly build fighters, and transport planes (DIdnt used them), I though on building fighters only because I though bombers are useless...

Also, for soviet union, should I go for Firepower doctrine, or which I should switch for?

CAS planes are exceptionally useful, even in the larger air zones of the USSR. You should definitely be building and using them, though fighters should take precedence.

Firepower doctrine is a fine choice for the USSR (especially if you increase the amount of artillery in your infantry divisions - 14 infantry/4 artillery is a fair starting point), though Mobile Warfare is also good, and Grand Battleplan can be very good if you add signal companies to your divisions so they generate planning bonuses faster.

Mass assault has a few things going for it, but really lags behind the other three doctrines in important areas, like infantry organisation.

 

[Baron Jukaga]

I like Mass Assault with Soviets especially the left side branch. It feels exploity to switch out to mobile or firepower.

 

[Aeon221]

20w is plenty good for defense. You should go 40w only for stuff that you want to attack with because due to reinforce mechanics it sucks at defense.

40w divs can get screwed by Guerilla tactics, tactical withdrawl and bridge tactics, all of which reduce combat width substantially (min of 25% reduction) and pop divisions that don't fit the new combat width back to reserve. If you only have 60w of frontage and your one 40w division gets deorged fighting 3 20w divisions, you're hosed and lost the combat because you need at least one div in a fight to reinforce and can't go over by more than like 10w.

Best divs to use 40w with are medium or heavy tank divisions. Never make 40w marines if you intend to naval invade as they will never be able to reinforce and your invasions will always fail. Line infantry should never be over 20w or you will randomly lose fights as described above. Shock infantry can be 40w, but you want to use 4x heavy SPG for them so that they are really smacking the shit out of whatever they fight. Infantry has crap breakthrough so you need either high soft attack to deorg enemy fast or you need to include a light tank battalion to boost their breakthrough cheaply.

 

[Aeon221]

You want right side of mass assault if you want to minimax, not left, and you want 10w divisions for line infantry if playing as soviets bc guerrilla warfare is hard for 20w to abuse. Seriously people learn what the tactics are and what they do, designing without knowing them is going to make things harder for you.

 

[N3UTR0N]

Wait, I get people with different opinions on how effectively play the Soviet union. I get:

- "Focus on 10w divisions! better than 40w!" - You're right, but I feel like 10w is just too weak...
- "Change to different doctrine!" - Yes, possibly.
- "No stay with mass assault doctrine!" - Wait what? I'm confused.


Anyway, I think I devised on how I can play Soviet union effectively.

So, I just go to switch to Firepower doctrine, and make those 3 divisions that will be main ones:

- Standard Infantry division
7x Infantry battalions, x2 Artilery battalions. Artillery support company, Enginner Company and (Maybe) Recon company.

- Mountain Infantry division
x10 Mountainer battalions. Artillery support company, Enginner Company and (Maybe) Recon company.

- Medium Tank Division (It's suppose to be a powerfull breakthrough division, so It's gonna be 40 width)
x10 Medium tank Battalions, x10 Motorized battalions. Artillery support company, Enginner Company, Maintenance Company and (Maybe) Recon company.

Correct me in my division designs to make them more effective.

 

[TorAndreKongelf]

There are a lot of people who think their own approach of playing the game is the only right way. Take what people say with a grain of salt. People have specific playstyles and they will give what goes best for that playstyle, and they will assume their advice will work for everyone else. Best you can do is to try out stuff on your to your own liking.

Even people are writing stuff like "CAS is best even in large USSR". This is in 90% of all circumstances just WRONG.

Read all the tooltips and go with what you like the best and make it work.

 

[a_sophist]

The following doesn't need to do be taken as gospel, as ultimately all of what you proposed will work against the AI eventually. That being said:

• If you don't intend to attack with infantry, I don't think it's worth it to put artillery in them. It's not bad to do so and you'll have enough MIC to support it, but probably unnecessary
• With 10MTN vs 10INF you're basically trading 40 equipment and 5 HP for 10 org, with a couple other stat differences. In my experience INF is sufficient
• 10 motorized is more than necessary for a 40 width tank division. Typical builds are 15/5 or 8/6 with 4 SPGs, but the rule of thumb is that breakthrough and attack values are far more important than org and defense on armor divisions

Regarding doctrine, just pick the one that you think best suits your general strategy. Personally, I like to spend nine months to a year absorbing Germany's attack (assuming Summer 41 Barbarossa) and counter in Spring 42 with 40 width tanks and inf/art divsions, which will generally roll right over Germany's under supplied divisions. Therefore I choose between Grand Battleplan assault or Mass Assault Deep Battle, depending on the extent to which tanks will matter and whether or not I want to make use of the lower combat width infantry. If you want to take it to Germany right away, Superior Firepower makes sense, as would Mobile Warfare Blitzkrieg is you've got lots of tank divisions ready in time.