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ToreadorVanitas

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On Probation
May 15, 2019
14
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I didn't use guns at all. I am one of those that also found it odd, that they would have Vampires using guns when in the tabletop, they were just there, for humans to fend for themselves. Honestly I hope Hardsuit, doesn't make this mistake. But then again, all they know is first person shooters, so more than likely guns will there, hence the decision to go 1st person only for this game.

Sadly, it is exactly what they did. They made a choice for us, without even interacting with the community. But that is why we are here and we have this thread. Hopefully they will realize that there is demand for both views, and at least provide the tools to make it moddable, though the concensus is that people would like for the mods to somehow work it into the game.

Yes, no offense, but I rather have the devs (I think you meant devs not mods.) do it. Extremely worst case scenario I'd welcome a mod, but like I said before I won't be buying this until either of the two happen. I don't mind skipping this completely if it doesn't happen, at least we have both Werewolf and The masquerade game, by big ben to look forward to, if hardsuit drops the ball on this.
 

Vampfan

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On Probation
Apr 29, 2019
27
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I'll probably still give the game a chance. I have expectations, born of nostalgia and love for the prior game, these have been disappointed but not enough to end my enthusiasm.

Plus, making the active choice to limit action to a first person perspective, giving the developers more control over the player perspective, will present them with opportunities to more precisely and expertly craft the visual narrative of the game. It's higher risk, but maybe it'll be great, especially for something that I hope will rely on mood and atmosphere.

I would give it a chance if I could. But I wouldn't be able to unless I have. Bucket of puke next to me or run to the bathroom every 10 minutes, or I could also starve and take a whole bottle of dramamine to play for a bit.

Sadly those would be my only options. But yeah we have werewolf and the other masquerade gake at least.
 

Sheriff Godwin Law

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I would give it a chance if I could. But I wouldn't be able to unless I have. Bucket of puke next to me or run to the bathroom every 10 minutes, or I could also starve and take a whole bottle of dramamine to play for a bit.

That is a rough draw. Sorry.
 

Magister Tremere

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Mar 26, 2019
76
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I don't get what you're saying, several of my characters used primarily firearms and I still used 3rd person view with them, it was a little more difficult in the begining when firearms stats are low and weapons are trash but as soon you got a little better stats and weapons, it was pretty easy, I still remember using the Assault rifles as a Ventrue going up the Ventrue Tower.

Even more to the point, this issue isn't solely about us being able to see our character. It's about spatial awareness in the game and how a lack thereof prevents some people from playing the game. We can discuss camera angles in regards to combat and movement all day, but that discussion doesn't fully addresses the reason why some of us have difficulty playing the game in the first-person perspective. We need to make sure that we're addressing the issue in the proper context.
 

Sheriff Godwin Law

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We can discuss camera angles in regards to combat and movement all day, but that discussion doesn't fully addresses the reason why some of us have difficulty playing the game in the first-person perspective.

My little brother is nearly deaf. Why do I mention this? Because in alot of these first person perspective situations the game is designed to compensate with audio cues. Won't really work for him.
 

Magister Tremere

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Mar 26, 2019
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My little brother is nearly deaf. Why do I mention this? Because in alot of these first person perspective situations the game is designed to compensate with audio cues. Won't really work for him.

I hear what you're saying loud and clear. Still, you'll notice that not a single person who's advocating for third-person is saying that it's what we want exclusively. The option to switch is what we're petitioning for. That we're so passionate about it is due to different factors. Amongst those are also disabilities. At the end of the day, this shouldn't be a conversation about who's getting what they want at the expense of others. It should be about the game being accessible to all. While some of us are clearly on one side of the discussion, it isn't a one-sided issue and it shouldn't be treated as such.
 

Magister Tremere

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Mar 26, 2019
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IvoryOwl

First Lieutenant
May 12, 2019
235
26
I agree with Tremere. New costumers have the potential of joining your current fan-base and becoming the next generation of loyalists.

I get that appeasing your current fan-base is a smart move, after all, they're the ones who got you where you are now, but you also have to make a conscious effort to get new blood as well. And more people means more money to invest in other projects; be they sequels or more ambitious undertakes. The fan-base will get old and with time some may lose interest and leave, it may have already happened as well, so it's always a good idea to keep it fresh and interesting enough to lure in new people while keeping it true to its roots.
 
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LordTremere

Corporal
On Probation
May 8, 2019
34
0
New blood is always good, yes. Of course everybody wants the franchise and community to grow. The more it grows the more games, we get based on the World of Darkness. But we of course the fans don't want to see the franchise mishandled look at what Disney has done to Star Wars, look at what they are doing to Marvel now.

This tells me, they are more worried about adding 0's at the end of their next financial review than, their fan base.

https://www.pcgamer.com/bloodlines-...rom-epic-store-as-sale-price-confusion-rises/

Then of course Epic had to take it one step to far, cause you know they're Epic and think they are the pinnacle of the gaming industry.

https://n4g.com/news/2264575/epic-s...-publisher-removes-bloodlines-2-from-egs-sale

So we'll have to wait and see where the World of Darkness goes from here, but I hope 10 years from now, we are all talking about he great games, we've played, and not about how the franchise was ruined.
 

CrimsomAmber

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On Probation
May 10, 2019
21
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Paradox and Hardsuit should watch this documentary, in hopes of better understanding the world of darkness community. Instead of just concentrating on new customers, who are not loyal to the franchise.

https://geekdad.com/2018/09/world-of-darkness-documentary-review/

They really should!

New blood is always good, yes. Of course everybody wants the franchise and community to grow. The more it grows the more games, we get based on the World of Darkness. But we of course the fans don't want to see the franchise mishandled look at what Disney has done to Star Wars, look at what they are doing to Marvel now.

This tells me, they are more worried about adding 0's at the end of their next financial review than, their fan base.

https://www.pcgamer.com/bloodlines-...rom-epic-store-as-sale-price-confusion-rises/

Then of course Epic had to take it one step to far, cause you know they're Epic and think they are the pinnacle of the gaming industry.

https://n4g.com/news/2264575/epic-s...-publisher-removes-bloodlines-2-from-egs-sale

So we'll have to wait and see where the World of Darkness goes from here, but I hope 10 years from now, we are all talking about he great games, we've played, and not about how the franchise was ruined.

Sadly at the end of the day we are just Dollars signs $$$. I really hope that is not the case though. But we'll see what the future holds.
 

Bagheerah_Fr

Recruit
May 17, 2019
1
0
New blood here. I have never played Vampire the Masquerade Bloodlines nor the tabletop version but I'm very interested in this game or at least I was until I saw it was FPP only. I plan the play Bloodlines 1 soon since the concept is very appealing to me. But FPP only is a real bummer for me because of my motion sickness, especially considering that's the second time now I got hyped about a future game only to discover I wouldn't be able to play it. (Freakin' Cyberpunk 2077 T_T).
I'll keep an eye on this game but will only buy it if a TPP option is added to the game either by the devs or mods. Though a dev version would obviously be the preferable option.
 

Midgar

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New blood here. I have never played Vampire the Masquerade Bloodlines nor the tabletop version but I'm very interested in this game or at least I was until I saw it was FPP only. I plan the play Bloodlines 1 soon since the concept is very appealing to me. But FPP only is a real bummer for me because of my motion sickness, especially considering that's the second time now I got hyped about a future game only to discover I wouldn't be able to play it. (Freakin' Cyberpunk 2077 T_T).
I'll keep an eye on this game but will only buy it if a TPP option is added to the game either by the devs or mods. Though a dev version would obviously be the preferable option.

You're not alone in this, many have expressed their thoughts on why this game should have a 3rd person perspective. Many due to motion sickness such as you others, for aesthetic reasons. Unfortunately, we won't get to see how the game plays for a long time. But welcome to the forums!
 

Magister Tremere

Sergeant
Mar 26, 2019
76
20
New blood here. I have never played Vampire the Masquerade Bloodlines nor the tabletop version but I'm very interested in this game or at least I was until I saw it was FPP only. I plan the play Bloodlines 1 soon since the concept is very appealing to me. But FPP only is a real bummer for me because of my motion sickness, especially considering that's the second time now I got hyped about a future game only to discover I wouldn't be able to play it. (Freakin' Cyberpunk 2077 T_T).
I'll keep an eye on this game but will only buy it if a TPP option is added to the game either by the devs or mods. Though a dev version would obviously be the preferable option.

Bonjour and Welcome to the forum ... Thanks for lending your voice! :) If you haven't already, please take the time to sign the petition. Also have fun with Bloodlines 1. Hopefully you'll even better understand why we love the game so much!
 
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CrimsomAmber

Private
On Probation
May 10, 2019
21
0
New blood here. I have never played Vampire the Masquerade Bloodlines nor the tabletop version but I'm very interested in this game or at least I was until I saw it was FPP only. I plan the play Bloodlines 1 soon since the concept is very appealing to me. But FPP only is a real bummer for me because of my motion sickness, especially considering that's the second time now I got hyped about a future game only to discover I wouldn't be able to play it. (Freakin' Cyberpunk 2077 T_T).
I'll keep an eye on this game but will only buy it if a TPP option is added to the game either by the devs or mods. Though a dev version would obviously be the preferable option.

Welcome! I completely understand how you feel. To me being able to see my character is very important, I want to see my characters actions during combat, decorate her to my liking with cosmetics. This is such a wasted opportunity, It just won't feel right to play this supernatural predator that can do amazing and unbelievelable things, that we just wont get to see in first person.

If this was just another human with a gun, shooting up bad guys, then power to them. But this is a kindred in The World of Darkness.
 

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I an in favor of an optional third person view, but some considerations

1 - Is not only because is a first person that is "a shooter", see mordhau for example
2 - Even if is a shooter, doesn't means that using an gun would not be optional and even if is focused in guns, Deus Ex and Fallout New Vegas are amazing games
3 - RPG's in first person exist since 80s. Elder Scrolls, Wizardry, Might & Magic, Eye of the beholder, etc; are all in first person
4 - Most games focused on third person tends to have unrealistic movesets with a lot of ballet like overswing and focus too muchon swords as if they are the best weapon to fight larger creatures and armored enemies.
5 - Most realistic "simulators" like Warthunder on the most realistic mode, tends to be cockpit view only. Third person allow you to see attacks coming from "blind spots"


I an not against third person view. I just think that if comes, will be probably like TESO who received an poorly made first person to satisfy old fans but nobody plays in first person.
 

Magister Tremere

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Mar 26, 2019
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I an in favor of an optional third person view, but some considerations

1 - Is not only because is a first person that is "a shooter", see mordhau for example
2 - Even if is a shooter, doesn't means that using an gun would not be optional and even if is focused in guns, Deus Ex and Fallout New Vegas are amazing games
3 - RPG's in first person exist since 80s. Elder Scrolls, Wizardry, Might & Magic, Eye of the beholder, etc; are all in first person
4 - Most games focused on third person tends to have unrealistic movesets with a lot of ballet like overswing and focus too muchon swords as if they are the best weapon to fight larger creatures and armored enemies.
5 - Most realistic "simulators" like Warthunder on the most realistic mode, tends to be cockpit view only. Third person allow you to see attacks coming from "blind spots"


I an not against third person view. I just think that if comes, will be probably like TESO who received an poorly made first person to satisfy old fans but nobody plays in first person.

Again... While all of this may be true, none of it addresses the reason why people are petitioning for third-person in this game. We understand that there exists games that are played exclusively in the first person perspective. We concede that a lot of them are fun to play and that there are franchises that are successful with it. None of that deters the fact that there are people who can't play first-person games. Likewise, these things don't address the concerns of those who say, "What's the point of having in depth character customization if I'm only going to see my character in cut-scenes, inventory checks and real-time events?" What's more is these things don't even address the people who think that first-person isn't immersive at all and that this game is playing to the perceived strengths of the chosen developer whose background is primarily (if not exclusively) based in first-person games.

No one is dismissing the things you brought up... I doubt that anyone is blind to any of it. Still, all of it is beside the point.
 
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L0rdV1ct0r

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Again... While all of this may be true, none of it addresses the reason why people are petitioning for third-person in this game. We understand that there exists games that are played exclusively in the first person perspective. We concede that a lot of them are fun to play and that there are franchises that are successful with it. None of that deters the fact that there are people who can't play first-person games. Likewise, these things don't address the concerns of those who say, "What's the point of having in depth character customization if I'm only going to see my character in cut-scenes, inventory checks and real-time events?" What's more is these things don't even address the people who think that first-person isn't immersive at all and that this game is playing to the perceived strengths of the chosen developer whose background is primarily (if not exclusively) based in first-person games.

No one is dismissing the things you brought up... I doubt that anyone is blind to any of it. Still, all of it is beside the point.

I din't brought it to be in favor of "no 3rd person view". I only enjoy first person and saw really bad arguments against first person. Some people here really believe that if i an playing mount & blade in third person, i an playing an strategy rpg, but in first person, an cod clone and all 80s dungeon crawlers din't exist.
 

LordTremere

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May 8, 2019
34
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You can say those games, were pretty much in the 90's. I got Wizardry in 1989 when it came out. I remember my mom even saying, I hope you like it they guy at the store said this game is not very good and yes I hated it.

Gaming as a whole appealed to others because of the third person perspective. That's why we remember Mario and Sonic as video game icons. While it did get better to technology 1st still doesn't and will probably never simulate what real life does, which is the argument so many here are using. Maybe 20 years from now, when VR reaches new heights.

It is true the rise in popularity of first person titles began in the mid 90's and that was on PC. Most people play and still play on consoles, where 3rd person is more predominant. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-person_shooter#Origins:_1970s–1980s

And then we have the last gen of consoles with the PS3 and Xbox 360, where FPS's were just being manufactured, and we got all those COD titles, that were just re-skins of one another etc, then we moved to this generation, where thankfully 1st person titles are slowing down.

But glad to see you support both views, games sell better when they allow choice. That way everyone can play the way they want.
 
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