3rd Party Empire Stealing (Colonizing) Planet During War

[TheCrimsonMajor]

So, I went to war with a neighbor to free a habitable world which was in the radius of one of their outposts. It was previously uncolonized, because they found it inhabitable. I destroyed the outpost, move on to occupying the enemy's planets, and a few months later, I notice that another neutral neighbor has swooped in and colonized the system in the meantime! What makes it even worse is that they are a vassal of the ally of the nation I was at war with, meaning it will be several wars before I can take the planet. Is there any way to avoid this?


I didn't want to start colonizing the planet during the war because I was already having to deactivate mining complexes just to avoid an energy deficit. I guess I could have built an outpost, but there are enough drains on influence as it is. Maybe paradox should make it possible to capture enemy outposts, or to declare uncolonized worlds in enemy space as war goals.

 

[Lothmar]

Leaving some ships behind to harass, or building a space station? Though if you weren't hostile with them it wouldn't have stopped em but at least you might have known when they came in...

I forget if installing an orbital something keeps it from being colonized...

 

[Lothmar]

I kind of wish there were 'orbital claim beacons' that were a static 25 influence or something and you could put them over a planet and you basically had 'dibs' on it. If anyone wanted it legally they'd have ot pay an equal influence and then you had X time to do something with your claim otherwise the other person gained the claim and could then colonize without penalty etc. People can still attack your claim beacons or land colonies anyway but it has a diplomatic penalty associated with it.

 

[ColZimin]

I don't entirely disagree with your claim beacon idea, but the "dibs" system is pretty much already included in the border range concept. That's what your area of influence is supposed to represent. And that third party got smart/lucky and snatched a world from the big players. Gotta say I like the emergent storytelling in that ...

I will say though, influence is a ludicrously unbalanced resource, which by extension makes claiming territory a bit wonky. As a democratic government I'm generally running over my influence cap due to Mandates, but as oligarchies and autocracies I'm barely scraping by. Getting influence from rivalries is either a huge risk or nearly pointless - either half the galaxy bands together against you, or you're rivaling pathetic empires that give you 0.01 influence per month. And all that makes expansion super slow, unless you're either a democracy or very effective at conquest. If you're both, you expand way too fast.

Sorry, getting off topic there, but TL/DR: I think the situation that happened to you is annoying, yes, but I'd prefer to keep the option in the game - have used it myself once or twice. As for claiming worlds, I think influence and the cost of frontier outposts needs to be rebalanced soon.

 

[TheCrimsonMajor]

I don't entirely disagree with your claim beacon idea, but the "dibs" system is pretty much already included in the border range concept. That's what your area of influence is supposed to represent. And that third party got smart/lucky and snatched a world from the big players. Gotta say I like the emergent storytelling in that ...

.....

Sorry, getting off topic there, but TL/DR: I think the situation that happened to you is annoying, yes, but I'd prefer to keep the option in the game - have used it myself once or twice. As for claiming worlds, I think influence and the cost of frontier outposts needs to be rebalanced soon.

So, I definitely understand that this situation doesn't happen every day, but the problem is that these uncolonized worlds are explicitly not included in the border range concept, and its a problem when the AI relies so heavily on frontier outposts. As far as I know, I cant get them to remove the outpost or turn it over as part of a war goal, nor can I get them to acknowledge a claim on the uncolonized planet. I think these two additions would be helpful, if we can't prevent third parties from sneaking in with a colony ship.

 

[Alblaka]

If you loved that planet, you should have put a Frontier Outpost on it.

Of course it's frustrating, but an entirely fair move by the opposing empire.

 

[Suzaku]

And this is why I no longer play Ironman ;p

 

[TheDeadlyShoe]

It's more a problem with frontier outposts- i suspected as much just reading the thread title... They're big outlays, and important to the claimed-space metagame. But they are easily & quickly destroyed in a war. If - as you describe in the OP - you 'took' the outpost rather than gunning down the hapless inhabitants of Babylon 5 (or w/e) it would obviate this issue, but that's outside the scope of the game atm.

The easiest way to avoid this problem (in the context of uncolonized worlds) is to avoid killing frontier outposts until you're prepared to dictate a peace deal.

 

[Thomas Gideon]

If you liked it then you should have put a ring on it.

In all seriousness, however, perhaps have a colony ship standing by, to swoop in and colonized immediately. Might take some planning with your resources, but that's what I generally do in these situations.

 

[TheCrimsonMajor]

If you liked it then you should have put a ring on it.

In all seriousness, however, perhaps have a colony ship standing by, to swoop in and colonized immediately. Might take some planning with your resources, but that's what I generally do in these situations.

But the energy drain of having a colony ship up and having my fleet not in orbit of a friendly planet with a spacedock... its almost crippling for an autocracy. Democracies can handle it better.

 

[Aurtose]

Hmm, some ability to occupy stations would be nice. Boarding torpedoes come to mind, but even having stations be something that armies can invade would be fine. The risk/reward of getting transports next to a target that's firing back would be interesting, as would the ability to temporarily steal resources/territory during a war (obviously with an option to demolish the station at any point).

 

[mrt1212]

So, I went to war with a neighbor to free a habitable world which was in the radius of one of their outposts. It was previously uncolonized, because they found it inhabitable. I destroyed the outpost, move on to occupying the enemy's planets, and a few months later, I notice that another neutral neighbor has swooped in and colonized the system in the meantime! What makes it even worse is that they are a vassal of the ally of the nation I was at war with, meaning it will be several wars before I can take the planet. Is there any way to avoid this?


I didn't want to start colonizing the planet during the war because I was already having to deactivate mining complexes just to avoid an energy deficit. I guess I could have built an outpost, but there are enough drains on influence as it is. Maybe paradox should make it possible to capture enemy outposts, or to declare uncolonized worlds in enemy space as war goals.

That sounds awesome to me. The unexpected consequence of player action! And something to remember to do myself when the time is right!

 

[anomanderus]

There isn't any way to avoid it because Paradox never thought it would happen. Reload an earlier save.

 

[extrapancake]

Ive never seen that happen before but its smart for the AI, pressing when you were distracted with something else. I hope this and other things like it dont get taken out because I want to use it myself, for example when a neighbor goes to war with someone else you can set a single planet wargoal on them and be in and out before he can respond, walking away with a free planet.

 

[Falendor]

I'm pretty sure i saw in one of the screenshots that destroying outposts is going to be a wargoal in next patch.
Sorry dont have time to dig it up, but thought it might be helpfull to know.

 

[Elfwind]

And this is why I no longer play Ironman ;p

I just started playing Ironman, I got trolled by my allies so hard lmao.

 

[Cagliostro]

The outpost problem is part of this.

But also the problem is that you can't make 'claims' of any kind. Like, your neighbor doesn't actually *know* it will piss you off, because claims are either total (you literally cannot go here) or nothing (i have no idea this is 'yours').

More broadly the game also needs a 'threaten war' button.

 

[PirateJack]

I'd like to be able to pay influence to mark a system as 'mine' which would increase the cost of colonising there by the amount of influence spent. There would be a diminishing effect over distance from the system, so that nearby systems cost more too.

Naturally this doesn't affect your civilization, though it does stack with third party civs so that the cost may increase for everyone.

It's a simple and easy way to model this kind of thing.

 

[faljen_isus]

i had third parties build frontier outposts and colonize in my borders multiple times, but now it seems its a feature xD

 

[scaper12123]

I must say that's actually a rather amazing series of circumstances!