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I'm actually pretty satisified with these guys in general, though I do have some observations:

  • Price of the M8 Greyhound seems a bit excessive. It's more expensive than a Stuart. You also only get one per card in Phase A, so if you lose one it can make it difficult to take ground early in the game with your Stuarts. Even in Phase B, 2 per card seems a little light. I think it'd be better as 2x in phase A and 3x in phase B, and maybe change the 3x ones in Phase C to 1 star vet versions with only one pack.
  • A Phase B packet of Bofors with 4x each would be nice. Right now you only get 2x packs in Phase A, then M3HT AA guns for the rest of the game.
  • I see little reason to use the 60mm infantry mortars when I can get the same amount per pack with the M21 MMC, even with the 30 point price difference. The M21 has better range on top of it's superior mobility. The 60mm mortars' range is simply painful.
 

Son of a Duck

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I'm kinda on the fence about the M3 HT's tbh, I think they suppress enemy units way too easily. Same goes for the Sd.Kfz 251 of course. At least you only get 8 cards in phase A.
 

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I'm kinda on the fence about the M3 HT's tbh, I think they suppress enemy units way too easily. Same goes for the Sd.Kfz 251 of course. At least you only get 8 cards in phase A.

They're nice but you pay for it by not having any MGs organic to squads until midgame. In a lot of cases it's not practical to employ those HTs in infantry engagements because of the terrain/building configuration. You also pay by simply not having very much infantry at all.
 

Son of a Duck

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They're nice but you pay for it by not having any MGs organic to squads until midgame. In a lot of cases it's not practical to employ those HTs in infantry engagements because of the terrain/building configuration. You also pay by simply not having very much infantry at all.

True, but they absolutely melt infantry in long range combat, regardless of their infantry not having MG's. They are super useful for fire support and suppression, kinda like a mobile MG 34/42
 

holoween

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True, but they absolutely melt infantry in long range combat, regardless of their infantry not having MG's. They are super useful for fire support and suppression, kinda like a mobile MG 34/42

halftracks are what makes armoured divisions so powerfull. while tanks are nice you can only have so few that they can be countered by individual at guns. halftracks on the other hand are so numerous that you have a hard time covering all important areas with at guns. 91st being an exception since they can get the extremely cheap pak36 in enough numbers to shut down any ht heavy play.
 

KattiValk

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I feel like half tracks will become balanced once the meta falls into place. The issue at the moment is more that a lot of people don't take APC counters than it is the half tracks being unkillable. Maybe an ammo nerf could be in order though.

Jumbo is obviously pretty underpriced.

Greyhounds have really poor accuracy for their price. I feel like cost buffing or making it a little more reliable would be welcome.

I don't know what the ROF is at the moment, but a superior 75mm Sherman ROF compared to the larger guns would be neat.
 

Dongs Galore

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M4a3 75s are overpriced (more than half the price of Panthers which are more than twice as good) or the division income is too low for phase B. The British Infantry should not be able to bring out more armor than the US Armored in the mid game, but they can at a normal income rate.
 

MarcoRossolini

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I've noticed the division really suffers late game. All its tanks suffer badly against German armour. I haven't played the 12. SS but I've noticed I can hold off the 3rd nicely with the Luftlande and StuGs!

When I'm playing my beloved 15th Scots, if there's a major hole in the line then it usually seems to be caused by a 3rd Armoured player being deluged with Panthers.

That said, I don't any of us have played nearly enough to make a reasonable judgement. The addition of morale and the ability to scare enemy tanks without even doing damage makes things much more even with a bit of cunning.
 

faxx2

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I've noticed that the US armored does not actually have any tanks that are capable of taking out (reliably ie, not a lucky shot) a top tier german panther. It would be nice to see better AP AT--maybe an M-18 (the US anti-Armour Doctrine was a bit screwy where they were not permanently attached to a division I think).


It kinda sucks when you have so many points in the end game and literally nothing viable to take on a german panther, I do understand that this fact is relatively historical (they used to send 3 normal Shermans and one firefly/US equivalent) but the US Heavy hitters seem not that hard hiting.
 

Tankhunter__

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I've noticed that the US armored does not actually have any tanks that are capable of taking out (reliably ie, not a lucky shot) a top tier german panther. It would be nice to see better AP AT--maybe an M-18 (the US anti-Armour Doctrine was a bit screwy where they were not permanently attached to a division I think).


It kinda sucks when you have so many points in the end game and literally nothing viable to take on a german panther, I do understand that this fact is relatively historical (they used to send 3 normal Shermans and one firefly/US equivalent) but the US Heavy hitters seem not that hard hiting.

No M18s were attached to the 3rd Armored Division during Normandy. The only M18 TD battalions that served in Normandy were attached to an infantry division. The 76mm Shermans have the same guns as the M18 anyways
 

faxx2

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No M18s were attached to the 3rd Armored Division during Normandy. The only M18 TD battalions that served in Normandy were attached to an infantry division. The 76mm Shermans have the same guns as the M18 anyways

I will take your word for it, I do still feel that the 76mm seem to lack the punch it should have
 

Tankhunter__

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by Cobra there were M18s attached to 4th AD

I'll have to correct that. IIRC the 705th TD battalion was attached to the 83rd Infantry Division, with one of its M18 companies later attached to the 2nd Infantry Division in mid-late August. The 704th and 705th TD Battalions were the only two M18 equipped units, as the only other M18 battalion (804th TD Battalion) was in Italy.

You are right, the 704th TD Battalion was attached to the 4th AD according to their unit history, approximately 2 weeks before Cobra. Source:
http://cgsc.contentdm.oclc.org/cdm/ref/collection/p4013coll8/id/3449
 

faxx2

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It was only a bit more punchy than the KwK 40/ PaK 40... and only with the M79 AP shell (that sucked against sloped armour and had poor pen with range).
Interesting ,I was under the impression that the American 76mmwas at least comparable to the 17 pounder (which in game has more penetration in game)
 

Dongs Galore

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I've noticed the division really suffers late game. All its tanks suffer badly against German armour. I haven't played the 12. SS but I've noticed I can hold off the 3rd nicely with the Luftlande and StuGs!

imo the simplest solution for 3AD which doesn't require price balancing m4s for other decks is an income buff for phase B that would make it easier for them to build up a tank force before phase C.
 

Tankhunter__

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Interesting ,I was under the impression that the American 76mmwas at least comparable to the 17 pounder (which in game has more penetration in game)

The 17pdr is the same caliber (76.2mm) but has a longer barrel and heftier ammo(as well as the powerful APDS ammunition, which was deadly but inaccurate past 600m)
 

I WUB PUGS

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On the Jumbos, I think they're okay price-wise. It's like the one tank the Germans have to play like the Allies have to play against their tanks, except the Jumbo can't really kill anything, so really not the same, it's just a lot harder to kill.
 

Graphic

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I've noticed that the US armored does not actually have any tanks that are capable of taking out (reliably ie, not a lucky shot) a top tier german panther. It would be nice to see better AP AT--maybe an M-18 (the US anti-Armour Doctrine was a bit screwy where they were not permanently attached to a division I think).


It kinda sucks when you have so many points in the end game and literally nothing viable to take on a german panther, I do understand that this fact is relatively historical (they used to send 3 normal Shermans and one firefly/US equivalent) but the US Heavy hitters seem not that hard hiting.

You have to use the hedgerows to your advantage. Either lure the Panthers into a "room" of hedgerows where they get hit at close range as soon as they enter, from multiple angles if possible. Use infantry to guard the flanks of your tanks near hedgerows in case enemy infantry tries to pass through.

or you can peek out from behind a hedge at opportune moments when the Panther/whatever else is close.

Do this and you'll get the kills. You get +1 AP every 100m closer you are. For that, the closer you are, the more the Sherman becomes the superior tank with its cost factored in.

The terrain of Normandy is really their savior here. If there were no hedgerows, Normandy would look like the Russian steppe, and in that case they would be hopelessly outmatched against Panthers.

As it is I think the Shermans are perfectly fine, I have no qualms about any of them. I'm not even that bothered by the cost.

edit: another tip is always have a Calliope but never use the full barrage at once since it takes forever to reload. you can suppress multiple blobs or multiple individual spread out tanks if it comes to that. as long as its within the same 60 rocket load, the aim time will be a only a few seconds. after you panic them, its time to counter attack.
 
Last edited:

usnstarkey

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The problem here is that certain game mechanics are complementing each other in making the Panther more OP than it should be.


The first problem is the cost of the Sherman compared to the Panther. Very Excessive imo.

The second issue is tank accuracy, which there is already another thread about. The lack of tank accuracy hurts the Sherman more than it hurts the Panther. To kill a Panther you have to take time getting around it etc. But when it takes so long to get a hit, the Panther almost always gets a chance to turn into the attack and win. Even when you use a double flank, the poor accuracy often gives Panthers time to engage one attack and then the other in succession.

Late game it is simply impossible to defeat any significant mass of Panthers vs a semi-intelligent opponent.