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jackda

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As i said, your set up wasn't bad , maybe you would have won without the exploit who knows? But that doesn't mean that SU is too strong (it was strong IRL) , as SU you have to play wisely if not you can lose an impressive number of divisions, of course the German has to play toughly with a big setup and some extra tricks (paras , STR.......) to break the defensive lines ,crippling the soviet factories/infra and caught some prisonniers.........
In most cases German can easily hold Berlin till late 1945 if he manage to play carefully (without trying to take Moscow at all cost).....
 

unmerged(74599)

Nexus 6
Apr 17, 2007
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The real problem with vanilla HOI is that SU is too strong in 1941 and too weak in 1940. Even without any supply support from USA, USSR can have 450 to 500 divisions for May 1941, not all 1941 of course. I played from a Wacko position in 1941 and I had 600 infantry, mostly 1941, though I had no air and no navy (deleted or traded at game start, I guess.)

The real issue is this Germany can play to beat France in 1940, or play to beat USSR in 1941, if he plays to beat France/UK, he more than likely loses in 1941 (lost manpower, not enough IC), if he plays to beat USSR, there is a good chance he loses 1940 against Allies (not enough troops). Therefore in vanilla, Germany's best option is Barbarossa in 1940, after France, imo.

Its been like this for how long in this game?

And, from what I could see in game (which was not much because I was UK), Hiensen played his position well, and Visser had some bad luck at Minsk early on.
 

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Nuked man
Jan 14, 2007
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an SU played "wisely" is too strong in my point of view, I could reach in 1vs1 614Ic and had over than 70 units serials running from october 40,I just did not took the risk in that game to not have enough troops by 41 I stopped at 545 IC...But you also noticed all my troops are modern and brigaded with modern stuffs that explained my low mp+ the fact I did not have help to china event due to no war beetween china-jap so I lost one year hawk slider move.Maybe i also forgot one minister in the way I'm still learning how to play best this huge country.

noone german can beat a soviet that don't loose any single unit during weeks and weeks and get stronger each month.For that I think that Cueball is working good on his mod about su peacetime IC, in other hand it's also balanced on axis side he's removing supplies exploits on minors and huge dissent kill (-10%) by events that allow germany to run year 38 with 0 IC on consumer goods.That's what my opponent did..
 
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jackda

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Cueball said:
The real problem with vanilla HOI is that SU is too strong in 1941 and too weak in 1940. Even without any supply support from USA, USSR can have 450 to 500 divisions for May 1941, not all 1941 of course.

Rectification as SU you can have ALL of your 500 units to be 1941 in late May 1941(including MOTs,MTNs and of course those lovely T34s :D )

If you call "to win" trigger bitter peace event , of course Germany has LITTLE chance to win , but is that really ahistorical?
Of course the game is unbalanced in allied favor , so what?
wasn't that the case in real life?


that's why i added the rule : "allied must win before May 1945" , or they lose ....
1940 Barba is ridiculously unrealistic IMO
 
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unmerged(74599)

Nexus 6
Apr 17, 2007
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I think things were pretty touch and go for Allies in 41. Had there been different leadership in Germany, and had they actually attempted to broker peace with SU, rather than rejecting all diplomatic moves that SU made toward a peace agreement, then things might have turned out differently.

The original German plan was to achieve political victory over the SU by attacking along the same lines as Napoleon did in 1812. This was then adjusted to include "economic" and "resource" objectives for the campaign, and the direct thrust to Moscow, reduced in favour of attacking in the Ukraine and diverting armour to assault Leningrad. Would this have won the campaign for Germany? Would Stalin have capitulated had Moscow been taken and Hitler of a different mind about the Slavic peoples?

Why did Hitler Declare War on USA on December 10th, 1941?

Who knows? But to say that the war could only have turned out one way, is to undervalue the desperate situation of 1941.

That said, adjusting victory conditions is a good way of dealing with the imbalance in the game.
 

unmerged(74599)

Nexus 6
Apr 17, 2007
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Well the way it works is that SU gets a 50% IC_mod_reduction (last version is was 40%), but they also get more base IC to start. This IC is unlocked by events as the game goes on (first is actually the Spanish Civil War, so it goes up to 40% pretty fast.) In the event that Germany gives limited pact, USSR goes up to full IC capacity right away, in the event that Germany gives full pact, the IC reduction stays until war starts.

Based on pure IC conversion into industrial build, USSR still ends up with more IC in 1941, than it would in 1940, but the difference is not as great as in vanilla, making USSR roughly as strong in 1940 as it is in 1941. This is what I am actually trying to fix, not so much the strength of SU overall. It would be a simple thing just to make Germany stronger, but that would make the situation for SU even worse now in 1940 (limited pact) than it already is.

So, in the last version (1.06) the Soviet IC build pur laine, without any use of supply reduction through trade or IC increase through ministers, we could see an Soviet IC bulid that looks like this:

Soviet IC potential (comparison Vanilla v. EIR)
East is Red

Based on 6 IC for every factory build.

Year Base IC Real IC produced IC
1936 181 108 18
1937 199 139 23
1938 222 155 26
1939(FP) 248 198 33
>>>>>>>>1939(LP) 248 248

1940(FP) 281 224
1941 (Barb) 281 281

Vanilla

Year Base IC Real IC produced IC
1936 161 161 27
1937 188 188 31
1938 219 219 37
1939 256 256 43
1940 299 299
1941(Barb) 299

LP = Limited Pact
FP = Full Pact
yellow = IC build for that year

1940 EIR DOW 248 IC
1940 vanilla DOW 256 IC

There are other factors involved, of course, but that is the general view. IN the last game USSR ended up with 320 Base IC in 1941, which is still too much IMO, so I am increasing the Peacetime_IC_Mod by a further 10% for this game.

I will be playing SU against Hiensen... ^^

The problem for making GDE .6 for example, though a good idea, is the same as giving more IC to Germany. In the end this means that you have not balanced the strategic situation in 1940 and 1941, and this will give further advantage to Germany in 1940.
 

unmerged(64512)

Nuked man
Jan 14, 2007
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7rd SESSION Sunday 3 February at 19CET, 16 Jully 41 ingame

GER : Visser 454/302
ITA : Olen 160/105
JAP : Dexter 143/97
NAT CHI : Predator 125/104

UK : Zajac 205/158
USSR : Hiensen 525/375
USA : Pepsi 440/382
 

unmerged(74599)

Nexus 6
Apr 17, 2007
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Remind Zajac that he has things to do in South Africa....
 

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Nuked man
Jan 14, 2007
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oh np visser we will wait until you're back
 

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Nuked man
Jan 14, 2007
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unmerged(64512)

Nuked man
Jan 14, 2007
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Let's start tonight earlier as possible
only waiting for news from zajac and olen
I'm in vnet now

Checksum ZMCW (10 air)
 

unmerged(64512)

Nuked man
Jan 14, 2007
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yeah let's meet tonight in lobby
 

unmerged(64512)

Nuked man
Jan 14, 2007
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done