36 knot battleship

[Denkt]

A 1944 battleship have a base speed of 30 knots: http://www.hoi4wiki.com/Naval_units

By uppgrading the engine to level 5 you can increase speed by 10%: http://www.hoi4wiki.com/Variant

By researching 1944 battleship with a Raiding fleet designer speed is increased by 10% or by using a naval manuver military chief 10% speed.

30*1.2% = 36

 

[JaffiMeister]

Well, the Iowa-class could do about 35 knots.

 

[ikabon]

so what's wrong with that?
battleship Scharnhorst top speed 31 knots
battleship Gneisenau top speed 31 knots

 

[Denkt]

Well, the Iowa-class could do about 35 knots.

But I doubt Iowa could do that with wartime armament like the HOI4 36 knot ship can do.

 

[Scooty Dash]

But I doubt Iowa could do that with wartime armament like the HOI4 36 knot ship can do.

The point of varients are that they are real or alternate history version of real stuff. They could have invented a new more powerful engine and put it the battleships.

 

[Denkt]

The cost to the 36 knot battleship is that it have poor armor and armament but having a battleship that may be faster then enemy destroyers may be very useful.

 

[JerkyJerry]

But I doubt

But in all honesty you don't know

 

[potski]

HMS Vanguard was the last battleship to be launched in the world on 30 November 1944, and is described as a "fast battleship". It could sail at 30 knots.

Several changes were made during construction, which helped delay its completion (it was not commissioned until after the end of the war). These appear to be to upgrade the armour, range and reliability. There was no clear attempt to increase the speed AFAIK.

A 1944 battleship design is obsolete from the start. An expensive white elephant, which would be even more expensive in terms of using your naval experience trying to create a variant with 36 knots.

 

[Denkt]

1944 tech battleship is not obsolete in 1944. Atleast not in HOI4.

A 1944 battleship is amongst the fastest ships in the game, have the highest anti air attack of all ships. It have a armor value that is higher then the 1936 Super heavy battleship and just 50 HP less then 1936 Super heavy. It have more gun attack then the 1936 Super heavy and more piercing.

The 1944 battleship cost less then 1936 Super Heavy while beating it in pretty much everything but gun range and HP.

 

[potski]

Why not? Can planes not sink it? Tirpitz cough, cough.

 

[Harada.Taro]

Well, the Iowa-class could do about 35 knots.

In dream.... Greatly overrated for american pride. Iowa class in WWII battle load barely achieved 32.8 knots at the price of insane vibrations. It's true that the new jersey reached those 35.2 knot in 1968 but with a ship in light condition and it also sustained shake down damage and had to go back after that for repair... So yeah any ship can go over their normal load and reach greater speed but to which cost ? Light ship and engine damage ?

 

[Denkt]

Why not? Can planes not sink it? Tirpitz cough, cough.

Yes but I doubt it will be easy, with a good screen and air cover I doubt you will have a easy time to sink it from the air. It have the highest anti air firepower of all ships and can absorb massive amount of damage or even avoid attacks as its evasion is pretty good for such large ship.

 

[Antless]

This is not a WWII naval simulator. Slightly inaccurate numbers are entirely to be expected (and will become more over time as balancing will set in). It's not about the hard numbers, but the way they compare to other numbers (like the speed of battleships to the speed of other naval vessels) and added to that a lot of wiggle room to make more paths viable.

 

[Harada.Taro]

Yes but I doubt it will be easy, with a good screen and air cover I doubt you will have a easy time to sink it from the air. It have the highest anti air firepower of all ships and can absorb massive amount of damage or even avoid attacks as its evasion is pretty good for such large ship.

Massive air raid will easily sink any ship if not properly and massively air covered.

 

[Denkt]

Massive air raid will easily sink any ship if not properly and massively air covered.

There are limits in HOI4. Anti air firepower reduce the effectivness of air attacks against ground and naval units. Fighters can also disturb air units.

So with good air cover and strong screen air attacks may not be very effective against naval units.

 

[Harada.Taro]

There are limits in HOI4.

Well we will have to test that and make our own idea. So this discussion is delayed until 5/6th of June.

 

[Orlunu]

With how the variant system works, dumping all into engine and none into armour or guns (which each bring a malus to speed) is really pushing into the area that should be considered a battlecruiser.

Massive air raid will easily sink any ship if not properly and massively air covered.

A night action will easily sink any carrier if not properly and massively cordoned by defensive fleets.

Oh, wait, I guess falling majorly behind on any of the requirements in battle gets you killed.

 

[Axe99]

I don't think there's a lot of value in starting the old "BBs are obsolete in WW2/1944" argument again - Denkt's focussed the thread on a 36 knot battleship, and much safer for it if it keeps talking about that.

As the naval buffs will tell you, it gets exponentially more expensive to go faster, the larger a ship is. So taking a 40,000+ ton behemoth like an Iowa to 36 knots should mean that a substantial portion of it's tonnage is used up in its machinery, leaving less room for armour and armament. I'd expect it to be possible to build something like that, but I can't imagine it being sensible until nuclear power revolutionised machinery for large warships.

That said, as well posted by Antless:

This is not a WWII naval simulator. Slightly inaccurate numbers are entirely to be expected (and will become more over time as balancing will set in). It's not about the hard numbers, but the way they compare to other numbers (like the speed of battleships to the speed of other naval vessels) and added to that a lot of wiggle room to make more paths viable.

It's no real biggy as long as all the relativities match up, and I'm sure people looking for more precision on the naval things can mod it in (part of the work on a refined naval tech tree I'm interested in is in more closely relating the in-game values with actual historical values).

What would bother me more, personally, is if the 30 knots/36 knots is its cruising rather than flank speed!

 

[LordOfWar16]

The stats in the game arent meant to be realistic anyway and arent related to the reallife equipment anyway. The names are just flavor for otherwise generic equipment. A 1944 battleship at its base is the same for each nation in the game, no matter if it is a iowa or a h39 for example. The design company and doctrines alter their stats tho so they wont be the same on the field, but still wont be hyper realistic.

That said the variant system allows you to make ahistorical variants of course. The more you focus on engines the less you can focus on armament and armor for example. That would result in a fast, thinner armored battleship that may be better suited to escort carriers for example, rather than as a brawler against enemy battleships.

 

[Orlunu]

So taking a 40,000+ ton behemoth like an Iowa to 36 knots should mean that a substantial portion of it's tonnage is used up in its machinery, leaving less room for armour and armament.

You have to have her at maximum engines, minimum guns and armour to get 36 knots out in game, only other thing you can put points in is reliability, so I think that stacks up fair enough.