35 days for 90% of focus!

[Vlad123]

I am tired to wait 70 days for a focus can give me FEW Bonuses! Especially in small country you not have nothing to do...i asking why PDX make focus with 70 days when only if you are lucky, you complete a branch ,for exemple declare war to bulgaria,BEFORE bulgaria joint axis...yes you need to be lucky! If you not are lucky, if Bulgarian focus are unbypassable you make it(and waste 70 days) for continue the NF...sorry but more update make paradox, more boring the game become...WHY modders create BETTER NF instead PDX? Sorry but the focus at 70 days are very boring...in my mini mod i maked only 2 focus of 70 days, other focus are 28/35 days...more speed!

 

[TalyonUngol]

The big reason why is to prevent a minor from becoming a major too quickly. Thats why the devs did this because to let, say Turkey, become the size of Germany in 1939 is fairly unbalanced. Do I think that the trees could still use some work? Yes, but they are going in a good direction and they should take their time in their balancing.

Not every focus should be 35 days beucase then you could get the massive Ottoman Empire in 1940 and thats just a little broken. If you're asking for change in a tree, make a post that actually is more constructive critcism instead of whining.

For example, in my opinon from the beta, Turkeys Turan Empire could use some more time taken off of their focuses by a good 270 days. Right now, its extremely long without any sense to it. Ottoman Empire is clearly the better one right now but that one could use 4 70 day focuses turned to 35's. It wont be a massive buff to teh Ottomans but gives them a little bit more time to get a nation or two in before WW2.

 

[Cpt.Cross]

I agree with the OP no matter how many downvotes it gets. A tree this big. All the focuses need to be 35 Days.

 

[TalyonUngol]

I agree with the OP no matter how many downvotes it gets. A tree this big. All the focuses need to be 35 Days.

And as much as I have agreed with you in the past, I do not agree here. ALl of it being 35 days would get you at the end of the ottoamsn in 1939... no thanks.

 

[Casko]

I agree. Some focuses would do well to be rebalanced to be 35, or 45 or some such days.

Atleast the various minor research buffs.
You don't need to change the political and such focuses.
but I find it silly that focuses that are something like 1x bonus for this or that, or +5 ST are 70 days while you use same 70 days time to start the marco polo bridge incident or Danzig or War.

 

[Cpt.Cross]

And as much as I have agreed with you in the past, I do not agree here. ALl of it being 35 days would get you at the end of the ottoamsn in 1939... no thanks.

You would become the Ottoman Sultanate in 1938 sure, But you at that point would still have a useless army without another 455 days investment (if they were 35 days) before you get rid of that debuff. This would bring your to roughly April 1939.

From there you would still have the remaining Ottomman focuses, of which there are 14. Which with my suggestion is still 490 Days worth of focues which you could MAYBE have at 70 days but after this much waiting why would you?

And this is just the Ottoman Tree.

 

[TalyonUngol]

You would become the Ottoman Sultanate in 1938 sure, But you at that point would still have a useless army without another 455 days investment (if they were 35 days) before you get rid of that debuff. This would bring your to roughly April 1939.

From there you would still have the remaining Ottomman focuses, of which there are 14. Which with my suggestion is still 490 Days worth of focues which you could MAYBE have at 70 days but after this much waiting why would you?

And this is just the Ottoman Tree.

You do not need to do any of the army things in order to start warmongering as Turkey. You can easily clear out Greece, Bulgaria, Iraq, Saudi, yemen and oman and all of the smaller countries you'll need for your cores. Not everything should be 35 days. Im not saying more doesn't need to be reduced, but -everything- 35 days is a bit much to ask.

 

[Cpt.Cross]

You do not need to do any of the army things in order to start warmongering as Turkey. You can easily clear out Greece, Bulgaria, Iraq, Saudi, yemen and oman and all of the smaller countries you'll need for your cores. Not everything should be 35 days. Im not saying more doesn't need to be reduced, but -everything- 35 days is a bit much to ask.

Ready in 1939 is exactly when everybody else is and what the game is balanced around. You said it yourself in your own post about length that this game does not support playing the long game.

This Beta patch is exactly the right time to test it . Turkey a the end of the day will still be a minor nation and will always be. a minor nation is still surrounded by Majors who will crush it with ease.

It would just be nice to play Turkey before the end of the game. Right now its like trying to play USA in EU 4 except here I don't have the option to start in Janurary 1945.

 

[Tsavong]

You don't need to change the political and such focuses.
but I find it silly that focuses that are something like 1x bonus for this or that, or +5 ST are 70 days while you use same 70 days time to start the marco polo bridge incident or Danzig or War.

I agree that some of the resaerch-boni 70 days could be reduced to 35.

But the marco polo bridge incident is in my opinion a bad example as it at best should not start with a focus since those represent some planned regime action. I would rather like it to be an event at the historical time which then opens a decision to escalate the cause to a war.

 

[TalyonUngol]

Ready in 1939 is exactly when everybody else is and what the game is balanced around. You said it yourself in your own post about length that this game does not support playing the long game.

This Beta patch is exactly the right time to test it . Turkey a the end of the day will still be a minor nation and will always be. a minor nation is still surrounded by Majors who will crush it with ease.

It would just be nice to play Turkey before the end of the game. Right now its like trying to play USA in EU 4 except here I don't have the option to start in Janurary 1945.

Except, once again, changing everything to 35 days out of the blue would make it too ready and make it too easy. Yes, i said before the game doesn't support the long game from the FIRST build where its 1941 when you do ANYTHING. I never said you had to be a major in WW2 in 1939. I said it was for actually starting to go to war and starting to pick off the smaller minors so you can BECOME a major in 1941. Becoming a major in 1939 is too much even for me to ask for.

 

[Casko]

But the marco polo bridge incident is in my opinion a bad example as it at best should not start with a focus since those represent some planned regime action. I would rather like it to be an event at the historical time which then opens a decision to escalate the cause to a war.

to be fair, I was only using it as an example of a focus, that causes a major war, which is 70 days.

 

[Cpt.Cross]

I agree that some of the resaerch-boni 70 days could be reduced to 35.

But the marco polo bridge incident is in my opinion a bad example as it at best should not start with a focus since those represent some planned regime action. I would rather like it to be an event at the historical time which then opens a decision to escalate the cause to a war.

I would like more decisions and events instead of focuses too but they are very easy to abuse against the AI. Focuses like the MPBI send the justifying war action to the AI so that it will man the front against the enemy as apposed to abusing the event such as with Austria rejecting to join the Hungarians and as a result its front is empty when war is declared.

 

[Tsavong]

I would like more decisions and events instead of focuses too but they are very easy to abuse against the AI. Focuses like the MPBI send the justifying war action to the AI so that it will man the front against the enemy as apposed to abusing the event such as with Austria rejecting to join the Hungarians and as a result its front is empty when war is declared.

Well it should be possible to script the ai so that it fills the frontline when an decision is taken, no? May be it justifies a wargoal? That decision could take 10 days for example. Enough time to move divisions there.
Or you could leave a focus for it , reduce it to 14 days , but make the Incident an event that is needed to be able to take it.

 

[Cpt.Cross]

Except, once again, changing everything to 35 days out of the blue would make it too ready and make it too easy. Yes, i said before the game doesn't support the long game from the FIRST build where its 1941 when you do ANYTHING. I never said you had to be a major in WW2 in 1939. I said it was for actually starting to go to war and starting to pick off the smaller minors so you can BECOME a major in 1941. Becoming a major in 1939 is too much even for me to ask for.

But how would it be any different than the other countries we have now? With other countries we have:

Romania puppeting or annexing the Balkans with its 4 Balkans dominance focuses

Netherlands jumping to actual Major Status by Forming Benelux

Commie Czechs forming Austia-Hungary with Mega manpower. ( I'll not mention Hungary we all know that one.)

Mexico can become a Major though annexing the North or South American Continents

Greece will have Byzantium.

There are more of course but these are all minors that can have these options and be in a fighting position by 1940.

None of the above are Majors and all start with a gimping to various degrees and all get ready for 1940.

Even with doing the above they will still struggle against an actual Major. Yes even Mexico with an early annexed USA will struggle as it will still have only 3 research slots and next to no equipment. other than inf and Arty by that time.

I dont understand why people think Turkey should be a special case that has to struggle more than any of these nations. Isnt it supposed to be popular to play? I bet it isnt anymore.

 

[TalyonUngol]

But how would it be any different than the other countries we have now? With other countries we have:

Romania puppeting or annexing the Balkans with its 4 Balkans dominance focuses

Netherlands jumping to actual Major Status by Forming Benelux

Commie Czechs forming Austia-Hungary with Mega manpower. ( I'll not mention Hungary we all know that one.)

Mexico can become a Major though annexing the North or South American Continents

Greece will have Byzantium.

There are more of course but these are all minors that can have these options and be in a fighting position by 1940.

None of the above are Majors and all start with a gimping to various degrees and all get ready for 1940.

Even with doing the above they will still struggle against an actual Major. Yes even Mexico with an early annexed USA will struggle as it will still have only 3 research slots and next to no equipment. other than inf and Arty by that time.

I dont understand why people think Turkey should be a special case that has to struggle more than any of these nations. Isnt it supposed to be popular to play? I bet it isnt anymore.

Mexico does not have nearly the power of Turkey. Those lower countries below Mexico are awful for it not to mention it takes HUGE amounts of PP to core them. Ottoman Empire is a solid formable with lots of manpower, resources, factory slots/factories. Mexico doesn't get that. Netherlands doesn't get that either with the benelux decisions because its only the ones in Europe that it gets cores on. I don't know anything about Czechs so I wont dispute that one.

Greece is a solid nation for sure and I will say its the shining star of t he 3 focus trees.

Romania doesn't get cores on anything not to mention alot of the time, you don't WANT the puppets. You want the land yourself. Puppets are dangerous to have imo. Same with having Allies unless they are human players

 

[Casko]

Mexico does not have nearly the power of Turkey. Those lower countries below Mexico are awful for it not to mention it takes HUGE amounts of PP to core them. Ottoman Empire is a solid formable with lots of manpower, resources, factory slots/factories. Mexico doesn't get that. Netherlands doesn't get that either with the benelux decisions because its only the ones in Europe that it gets cores on. I don't know anything about Czechs so I wont dispute that one.

Commie Czech, if they form A-H do have massive manpower and industry to match thanks to Czechoslovak national spirits. However to actually do that is quite a race against the clock, as you can very easily get pummeled by Germany (both if Germany goes Kaiser or Historical alike) if you're too slow to conquer the required territory, and most likely will end up in war with Allies due to French guarantee of independence on Yugoslavia and Romania.

That said it is quite satisfying if you can manage it.

 

[TalyonUngol]

Commie Czech, if they form A-H do have massive manpower and industry to match thanks to Czechoslovak national spirits. However to actually do that is quite a race against the clock, as you can very easily get pummeled by Germany (both if Germany goes Kaiser or Historical alike) if you're too slow to conquer the required territory, and most likely will end up in war with Allies due to French guarantee of independence on Yugoslavia and Romania.

That said it is quite satisfying if you can manage it.

Does Facist Czech do it better? Facist usually gets the manpower bonuses.

 

[Cpt.Cross]

Does Facist Czech do it better? Facist usually gets the manpower bonuses.

No you dont really get much as a Fascist Czech as the big deal with that path is that you are trading time for safety,

Fascist Czech is like Commie Japan, you just dont do it.

 

[praftd]

The development trend of making minors incredibly boring and weak, and bloating trees, is concerning. People keep saying it is to prevent a country from expanding too quickly, but the current reality is that it mostly amounts to playing "Focus Tree Simulator" and doing nothing until 1940/1941. Which at that point, any chance of actually snatching territory is gone.

It used to be that pre-1939 was all about buildup and strategizing about how you can gain as much territory as possible before the war starts. Now it is just click decisions and removing negative modifiers because you are arbitrarily locked out of expanding either due to guarantees or negative modifiers.

It isn't about EVERY focus being 35 days. It is about CERTAIN focuses being shorter. Take, for example, France. half of their tree is so incredibly useless because by the time you get to certain parts of the tree, the game is over. Nobody cares about a 100% plane tech in 1943. Nobody cares about 2 civs. Nobody cares about a couple forts. Hell, half of the "Gain Wargoal against X" focus's are obtained when the country they target doesn't even exist or is guaranteed. Genuinely dumbfounded how that makes it past playtesting.

The game is becoming too much like Kaiserreich. I love that mod, but how much it railroads you is not a reason I love it. And this game is really starting to railroad players.

The game is supposed to be fun, first-and-foremost. Realism is secondary. Hell, most of the time even the realism fals flat. A perfect example is Spain. A very detailed country and focus tree with lots of decisions and modifiers. But it is also insanely unfun. Not only are the civil war mechanics obfuscated and game-y, but afterwards you are pretty much stuck being gimped and useless the rest of the game. Which is why pretty much nobody plays spain.

There is a reason everyone loves playing Germany, and it isn't just because of it being Germany or wanting to be the OP bad guy. It is because Germany's tree is genuinely fun. It isn't necessarily the most interesting or free, but almost every focus is pretty dang awesome and every focus is achievable in a reasonable time frame. Every time a focus completes you feel the bump in your country's power. With Turkey and Bulgaria and Greece you get focuses to unlock decisions, most of which are terrible, take too long, and are way too expensive. I'm definitely excited about finishing a focus that lets me pay PP to switch a faction from 21 arbitrary units to 31 arbitrary units. WOW

 

[Casko]

Does Facist Czech do it better? Facist usually gets the manpower bonuses.

No. Fascist path literally only gives you faster war justification and little else. Which, as Czech is something you do not need one bit all things considered.
...unless you want to turn yourself to puppet of germany... for some reason....