3 Partial 'Mech Salvage still = an instantly repaired 'Mech with free stock loadout

[me987654]

I could maybe handle the 3 parts becoming a fully armed mech IF there was a time and money cost after you collected all 3 parts (say 30 ish days and a decent chunk of c-bills)

 

[Justin Kase]

Ok, I'm going to send my pristine salvaged mechs to storage to get rid of the free loadout, then sell the weapons and equipment right away. Almost there. Just need a charity option to get rid of that money raised from the weapon sales now... HBS, please implement a "donate to Comstar's feed the children fund"/"send flowers to Dekker's memorial" button please

Well, you can always buy back those weapons and sell them again - that will deplete you funding pretty quickly. Or buy on worlds that you don't have as good Rep with and get charged a higher premium

 

[-Ubik-]

I seem to recall a tweet or post from Kiva where she stated that a new mech should be a progression and not a burden to the player, thus the mech gets built instantly and recieves stock loadout.

Think it was a couple of weeks ago but unfortunately I fail to find it atm.

 

[Lord of Riva]

i do not see the problem. The game balance is build around that and as is it does not mean anything regarding the difficulty as there are many factors that influence that.

That does not mean that the difficulty is necessary at the right spot but as said i do not see the problem. (it Probably is "immersion" which is quite subjective though. )

 

[KhazadDhum]

One thing to remember about buying mech pieces in the store. Those areas that have an "unlimited" number of some, usually only have one type of chassis that's unlimited, and probably a light mech anyways. I'm reasonably willing to bet you're not going to see too many medium/heavy/assault mech pieces in a shop with an unlimited quantity.
The thing that worries me is in the early game where you can buy pieces cheaply, can you then buy 3 pieces and build that mech, then sell it for a higher cost than you bought the 3 pieces for?

 

[me987654]

Disclaimer - any of this could have changed but here's the JSON of the sim game stuff from the beta:

{
"Travel" : {
"DefaultSystemTravelTime" : 7,
"DefaultFuelTime" : 7,
"FuelStationFuelTime" : 3,
"MinMapX" : 0,
"MaxMapX" : 0,
"MinMapY" : 0,
"MaxMapY" : 0,
"MaxJumpDistance" : 30,
"StarshipPrefix" : "starsystemdef_"
},
"Time" : {
"DayElapseTimeSlow" : 1,
"DayElapseTimeNormal" : 0.5,
"DayElapseTimeFast" : 0.2
},
"Events" : {
"MinorArgoEventFrequency" : 0,
"MajorArgoEventFrequency" : 0
},
"Finances" : {
"QuarterLength" : 90,
"MonthLength" : 30,
"BurndownDayLength" : 180,
"ArgoCostPerQuarter" : 100000,
"MechCostPerQuarter" : 25000,
"MechTechCostPerQuarter" : 30000,
"MedTechCostPerQuarter" : 20000,
"MechTechHiringCost" : 10000,
"MedTechHiringCost" : 10000,
"SpartanCostModifier" : 1.0,
"RestrictedCostModifier" : 1.0,
"GenerousCostModifier" : 1.0,
"ExtravagantCostModifier" : 1.0,
"JumpShipCost" : 30000,
"MechBaseCostPerPoint" : 25000.0,
"MechBonusCostPerPoint" : 10000.0,
"MechHiringCostPerPoint" : 5000.0,
"DefaultShopRefreshRate" : 14,
"DefaultShopMaxInventory" : 10,
"DefaultShopMaxSpecials" : 1,
"ContractPricePerDifficulty" : 125000,
"ContractPriceVariance" : 0.15,
"ContractReputationPerDifficulty" : 10,
"ContractReputationVariance" : 0.15,
"GoodFaithModifier" : 0.3,
"NoFaithModifier" : 0
},
"Shop" : {
"InventoryRefreshRate" : 0
},
"PilotGen" : {
"MaleNameList" : "name_male_intl",
"FemaleNameList" : "name_female_intl",
"SurnameNameList" : "name_surname_intl",
"CallsignNameList" : "name_callsign",
"FemaleGenerationRate" : 0.525,
"MinimumPilotAge" : 14,
"StartingAgeRange" : 4,
"AgeEndingModifier" : 2.0,
"SkillCap" : 10,
"SkillFloor" : 1

},
"Salvage" : {
"DefaultSalvageRights" : 1.0,
"DefaultSalvagePotential" : 10,
"MaxSalvagePotential" : 15,
"MinSalvagePotential" : 0,
"VictorySalvageChance" : 1,
"RetreatSalvageChance" : 0.5,
"DefeatSalvageChance" : 0.2,
"VictorySalvageLostPerMechDestroyed" : 0.1,
"RetreatSalvageLostPerMechDestroyed" : 0.15,
"DefeatSalvageLostPerMechDestroyed" : 0.10,
"ComponentScrap" : 1,
"LightMechScrap" : 4,
"MediumMechScrap" : 8,
"HeavyMechScrap" : 12,
"AssaultMechScrap" : 16,
"LightVehicleScrap" : 2,
"MediumVehicleScrap" : 4,
"HeavyVehicleScrap" : 6,
"AssaultVehicleScrap" : 8,
"DefaultChassisWeight" : 10,
"DefaultWeaponWeight" : 50,
"DefaultComponentWeight" : 100,
"RetreatRewardModifier" : 0.5,
"DefeatRewardModifier" : 0.2,
},
"Story" : {
"PrologueStartingSystem" : "Coromodir"
"DefaultStartingSystem" : "Detroit"
"StartingCBills" : 10000000,
"StartingMechTechs" : 1,
"StartingMedTechs" : 1,
"ArgoMechTechs" : 1,
"ArgoMedTechs" : 1,
"MaxMechWarriosPerPod" : 8,
"MaxMechsPerPod" : 6,
"StartingDropShip" : "leopard",
"UpgradedDropShip" : "argo",
"StartingPlayerMech" : "mechdef_blackjack_BJ-1-STARTER",
"StartingLance" : [
"mechdef_commando_COM-2D",
"mechdef_shadowhawk_SHD-2H",
"mechdef_panther_PNT-9R",
"mechdef_urbanmech_UM-R60",
],
"StartingMechWarriors" : [
"pilot_sim_starter_dekker",
"pilot_sim_starter_shoe",
"pilot_sim_starter_medusa",
"pilot_sim_starter_trigger",
],
"StartingCoreSystems" : [
"starsystemdef_Alloway",
"starsystemdef_Detroit",
"starsystemdef_UrCruinne",
"starsystemdef_Bellerophon"
],
"MechMothballTime" : 5,
"CompanyEventStartingChance" : -10.0,
"PersonalEventStartingChance" : -10.0,
"CompanyEventIncreaseRate" : 1.0,
"PersonalEventIncreaseRate" : 2.0,
},

 

[nimdabew]

Beta files I assume? 10M C-Bills is a bit much. Do we have a json list of mechs so we can copy/paste mechs for the starting lance?

 

[me987654]

Beta files I assume? 10M C-Bills is a bit much. Do we have a json list of mechs so we can copy/paste mechs for the starting lance?

Yes - from the beta - so likely outdated but still probably somewhat useful in showing some of the things that will likely be easy to change

 

[anonynamja]

Hmm. If the json is unchanged from beta then it looks like assembly time and loadout may be hardcoded.

 

[me987654]

Hmm. If the json is unchanged from beta then it looks like assembly time and loadout may be hardcoded.

There might be some way to change the number of pieces you need to build a mech in another file, but I don't remember for sure.

 

[Amechwarrior]

I'm fine with instant assembly and free equipment. With only 6 bays, an average player like we see on streams won't ever have that 6th slot free for 30 day downtime to make a new mech. Also, techs only work on one project at a time, so no repairs on your actually fighting mechs. Then, should they get the new unit, they again have to pay/wait for kitting it out. With players who might always have mechs in repair from previous missions, they would never have the time and space to dedicate to new chassis unless they built up months of money to burn just sitting there passing time. See Cohh or Strafe and other new streamers the first time the get a new unit and can take it to the field right away, it's a Christmas morning reaction from them. This is the kind of moment I'd think devs would want to keep and use to hook players in.

What does bug me is getting 3/3 salvage from pilot incap regardless of the damage state of the mech. Make losing a side torso or leg cap the salvage chunks at 2 and then we can't really double dip on equipment from a single chassis in the single mission. Sure, if you fight two of the same units in a match you get a little double dip, but that's reasonable. This makes pilot incaps something you need to be careful about for 3/3, and brings dual legging back in to the mix as viable salvage method instead of a clearly suboptimal one it is now. You can still incap a pilot to quickly take the chassis off the field, but now you won't get a whole mech out of it from blindly blasting it to bits.

In the end, I'd rather good salvage take effort and have greater costs in combat (time to carefully pick apart your target) if we are going to keep getting new and fully equipped mechs on completion.

 

[kvetcha]

I understand Kiva's decision, but respectfully disagree. I think the new mech is far more satisfying if you have to assemble and equip it first.

This is like someone handing you an unwrapped present. It takes some of the gratification out of it.

 

[me987654]

I'm fine with instant assembly and free equipment. With only 6 bays, an average player like we see on streams won't ever have that 6th slot free for 30 day downtime to make a new mech. Also, techs only work on one project at a time, so no repairs on your actually fighting mechs. Then, should they get the new unit, they again have to pay/wait for kitting it out. With players who might always have mechs in repair from previous missions, they would never have the time and space to dedicate to new chassis unless they built up months of money to burn just sitting there passing time. See Cohh or Strafe and other new streamers the first time the get a new unit and can take it to the field right away, it's a Christmas morning reaction from them. This is the kind of moment I'd think devs would want to keep and use to hook players in.

What does bug me is getting 3/3 salvage from pilot incap regardless of the damage state of the mech. Make losing a side torso or leg cap the salvage chunks at 2 and then we can't really double dip on equipment from a single chassis in the single mission. Sure, if you fight two of the same units in a match you get a little double dip, but that's reasonable. This makes pilot incaps something you need to be careful about for 3/3, and brings dual legging back in to the mix as viable salvage method instead of a clearly suboptimal one it is now. You can still incap a pilot to quickly take the chassis off the field, but now you won't get a whole mech out of it from blindly blasting it to bits.

In the end, I'd rather good salvage take effort and have greater costs in combat (time to carefully pick apart your target) if we are going to keep getting new and fully equipped mechs on completion.

Good post - agree with most and/or all of it.

The good news is that it does look like there are a lot of ways to make the whole salvage meta more difficult if one would like to. It appears the salvage "chances" can be modified in several ways

 

[Rabid]

Good post - agree with most and/or all of it.

The good news is that it does look like there are a lot of ways to make the whole salvage meta more difficult if one would like to. It appears the salvage "chances" can be modified in several ways

Agreed; although IMO a worse solution, if it was impossible to purchase mech salvage and building up a salvaged chassis would take at an absolutely minimum 3 or 4 missions with good luck on mech appearances / salvage, I would be fine with the current system, because I can rationalise it away as being something that the mechbay and salvage workers are facilitating during downtime. Not so much when you can get a full mech straight up from one mission. So going back to something like 6/7 pieces of salvage needed or making them less common would work.

 

[Namsera]

Okay, so I went to SideStrafe's stream while he was in the Mech Lab. If I understand the answers correctly, and people understood my question, weapons and components are taken from what you have in available storage already. It does not create new components.

 

[me987654]

Agreed; although IMO a worse solution, if it was impossible to purchase mech salvage and building up a salvaged chassis would take at an absolutely minimum 3 or 4 missions with good luck on mech appearances / salvage, I would be fine with the current system, because I can rationalise it away as being something that the mechbay and salvage workers are facilitating during downtime. Not so much when you can get a full mech straight up from one mission. So going back to something like 6/7 pieces of salvage needed or making them less common would work.

Personally I think I'd prefer to just change it to 5 (or 7 or whatever) pieces required if possible... as I'd still get the feeling I was collecting a bunch of stuff (not sure if we'll be able to do that though).


Long term we'll probably have a bunch of mods (and possibly new content from HBS) that adds mechs... which will in theory make salvage somewhat more difficult by itself as having more mechs/variants should make it harder to get 3 of a particular one.

 

[Camicon Dachass]

Okay, so I went to SideStrafe's stream while he was in the Mech Lab. If I understand the answers correctly, and people understood my question, weapons and components are taken from what you have in available storage already. It does not create new components.

So if you build a Panther from salvage, but have no PPCs in storage, then your Panther won't be equipped with a PPC upon reassembly.

 

[kvetcha]

So if you build a Panther from salvage, but have no PPCs in storage, then your Panther won't be equipped with a PPC upon reassembly.

If this is the case, I feel better about it. But I didn't think he had any PPCs in his inventory when he built that Panther.

 

[steeljacket488]

Both sides of this debate for and against this design decision have merit, myself I like to struggle in a game. I never could play xcom without it being on ironman, but having said that I agree with Kiva's look on ironman, that a bad roll should not make you want to rage quite, xcom had that problem. This game the way its lade out should not have that same issue, so as for my self at lest I would turn 3 mech parts needed into 6, two arms, two legs, center core, and the head, or command and control. And no default load out upon mech completion, just bare bones, also ammo, and armor cost c-bills, cheaper for mechs just coming off the battle field, but full price for full refit's.

 

[me987654]

So if you build a Panther from salvage, but have no PPCs in storage, then your Panther won't be equipped with a PPC upon reassembly.

Yeah if that's the case it's at least closer to what I'd like to see.