3 most powerful nations in the game (According to me)

[Ryuujin95]

I could beat you so hard you would cry as Muscowy if you were Ottomans.

My dad could beat up your dad?

 

[stnikolauswagne]

I could beat you so hard you would cry as Muscowy if you were Ottomans.

And I would beat the hell out of your muscowy as bohemia, but mp is not the point, it's just singleplayer, and the Ottomans are strong from the get go AND are very strong without exploiting the HRE-mechanic....

 

[Ryuujin95]

Vijay, Ming, and the Timurids.

Spot on. Though I personally prefer Rajputana for forming Hindustan. Ming gets big demerits for the faction system, and only really makes the cut based on sheer starting size. Minamoto, Mamluks, and Morocco would be my other contenders among the non-Europeans.

 

[Frax]

France.

 

[The-King]

Burgundy, Austria, France.

(In that order)

 

[XVG]

France or Bohemia are always eating everyone in my games.

 

[Chronicler]

I agree on England and Austria, less on Muscowy/Russia: I have tried, it's actually a monster demographically/militarily, but if you then go to expand in Asia it becomes too backward in technology and in my games I struggle in wars with other Europeans. Not to count that you cannot field a decent navy against the Britons/Ottos/etc.

Interesting to hear what are the three strongest non-European nations: I would say Ming, Mughals and Mamluks (or Japan?). Obviously considering Ottos as "European".

Vassals?

 

[stnikolauswagne]

Vassals?

Toast? You should better explain yourself a bit, since I don't see any viable vassal which could provice enough sea force to beat england, in my experience you need at least the entire baltic sea (best accessible coastline for russia) to beat england as a landpower if you manage to keep up in tech with them, I did so as Sweden with -2 Land, it might be possible to do it with less coast, but Russia will probably have even more land focus.....

 

[Alerias]

Though:

They also have great weaknesses

Both Castille and Burgundy are in sensitive positions

Castille doesn't really have that great options/missions (North Africa is pretty poor), and anyone can war the Ottomans. And I can beat Castille in colonizing with most other nations. With a smaller nation I could get quest for the new world in like 1410, takes longer for Castille (and in that period I will grab the good stuff)

Burgundy has a few missions for cores yet, but it's not *much* is it. Though it starts with rich provinces, I give you that, but France is richer, and would love to stomp Burgundy. Also England has cores on Burgundy, Austria has a mission on Burgundy, Netherlands can get cores in Burgundy. Let's end it with *everybody hates Burgundy*

Burgundy can become France, has good sliders, and if it converts to FRA keeps its two unique decisions giving the super-France cheap mercs and extra prestige. Pretty sweet package when you throw in the French ones.

Burgundy is also a natural Holy Emperor and has plenty of room to expand westwards into France without illegal territory penalties. Its missions for northern expansion also let it swallow the Netherlands on the cheap. Its the absolute perfect position to rebuild Charlemagne's Empire.

 

[Chronicler]

Toast? You should better explain yourself a bit, since I don't see any viable vassal which could provice enough sea force to beat england, in my experience you need at least the entire baltic sea (best accessible coastline for russia) to beat england as a landpower if you manage to keep up in tech with them, I did so as Sweden with -2 Land, it might be possible to do it with less coast, but Russia will probably have even more land focus.....

but if you then go to expand in Asia it becomes too backward in technology

and I said "vassals"

Alerias: I never said Burgundy wasn't strong, I just said my list are stronger. And Burgundy is still in a weak position.

 

[Alerias]

Alerias: I never said Burgundy wasn't strong, I just said my list are stronger. And Burgundy is still in a weak position.

Well, youre entitled to believe so, but IMO Burgundy is worth five Russias.

Weak position my ...

 

[Pewt]

I would love to see you take on Timurids, Golden Horde and Castille...as starting Ottomans.

EDIT: And I never called them weak, just not as strong as my picks.

Considering anyone with a pulse will have nearly doubled in size as the ottomans by the time the GH joins, that's hardly fair.

I could beat you so hard you would cry as Muscowy if you were Ottomans.

Ottomans start with better provinces, more buildings, better tech, better units, and better nearby territory to expand into. I fail to see how you expect to beat them with muscovy barring divine intervention or something that has no bearing on their 1399 power (like both of you expanding and you happening to get a better position 200 years later).

--

Austria and England are great, but Burgundy, France, Poland, and the Ottomans give them a run for their money. Muscovy is not worth putting among that company; there are several other countries in a far better position in 1399, including but not limited to the four I listed.

 

[RobRoy3]

Burgundy, Austria, France.

(In that order)

My list exactly. Burgundy is so strong, it's almost boring. And they usually become HRE, without really trying.

England is close and makes the list, if you expand it to four. But it's not quite there, until/unless they succeed with the Paris mission. Like Castille/Spain, they're just not as rich, in terms of tax base, cores, and core potential.

Ottomans beat Moscow/Russia, in my book. But I like the "some assembly required" caveat for these (and BYZ, BOH, POL, etc.), which puts them all on a lower tier.

 

[Monzon]

Burgundy, Austria, France.

(In that order)

Yep, this would be my first tier.

Second tier would be:
England and Castille.

 

[Chronicler]

Considering anyone with a pulse will have nearly doubled in size as the ottomans by the time the GH joins, that's hardly fair.


Ottomans start with better provinces, more buildings, better tech, better units, and better nearby territory to expand into. I fail to see how you expect to beat them with muscovy barring divine intervention or something that has no bearing on their 1399 power (like both of you expanding and you happening to get a better position 200 years later).

--

Austria and England are great, but Burgundy, France, Poland, and the Ottomans give them a run for their money. Muscovy is not worth putting among that company; there are several other countries in a far better position in 1399, including but not limited to the four I listed.

I never said I would beat him *right away*, did I?

 

[stnikolauswagne]

I never said I would beat him *right away*, did I?

So you would basically expand westwards into the HRE, since all the provinces east are not very strong, you are aware that the Ottoman player can do the same except with a better CB and better Units for the time it counts (until around 1600 I think). Both will have to westernize one step eventually, but the ottomans start with an edge there. So what real bonus does Russia have that the Ottomans can't get? And don't start with the HRE, it might be a strong Bonus, but the Ottomans have access to the manpower rich provinces of Persia and Forcelimits should not be that much of a problem. Prestige even less so, since it's hard to have problems with that as a warmonger.... Please, since you allways mention your glorious russia games upload a save or even a screenshot of your best game, I am pretty sure I will have a screenshot of a castille game which will trump yours.....

 

[Ryuujin95]

I never said I would beat him *right away*, did I?

Clearly the time to strike at the Ottomans is after they've united Anatolia and the Balkans, conquered the Mamluks, colonized the Timurids and Golden Horde, and maybe grabbed a bit of Italy on the side. They will tremble in fear at the hordes of Oriental tech units, and the Ottomans' ability to move their troops quickly around the Mediterranean, Aegean, and Black seas will obviously leave them at a defensive disadvantage.

 

[1alexey]

No BBB?
Son i am a disappoint.

 

[Chronicler]

Well, I can get all of Muscowy+missions (including vassalizing Novgorod)

Make myself HRE, and vassalize everything in the HRE, vassalize all of France, all other small monarchies outside France and HRE (Cyprus, Crete, Corfu, Naxos Sicily, Navarre etc)
Also whatever I can get in between Muscowy and the HRE. (Obviously I would get Hungary and Croatia and whatever else to border him)

And then I would ally myself to all my vassals, and perhaps what other strong catholic nations there are. Build a great army...and just deeeeeeclare war.

And yeah, all that before 1450 at least.


And I would surely like to see the Ottoman-player who have gobbled up all of mamluks, timurids, golden horde *aaand* conquered all those western provinces I mentioned before 1450.

EDIT: Might be possible to do that as Ottomans...I've never tried.

 

[Pewt]

You can't do that in 50 years; you don't have enough infamy, and half the time you won't even have an election in that time between you vassalizing electors and 1450. More importantly, you expect the Ottomans to just twiddle their thumbs while you do that?

In addition, considering Burgundy, Bohemia, France, Castille, Milan, Denmark, and even plenty of smaller countries (Bavaria comes to mind) can do that much more effectively than Muscovy, I'd expect to find those on your list instead.