3# Aussie Game 1.3a flexible weekly sessions.

[Majorball]

Mighty would have been fine holding all the key areas he just got carriered away and lead to disaster. The allied actions of continual basing units in neutrals in nuetrals and attacking out them is the worst KIND OF SPORTMANSHIP, GAMEY and CHEATING that ive seen in our games to date. Never in our game have so many allied nations resorted to doing this gamey crap then in this game. It is no excuse that the UK got pumped, they were still alive and breathing and under no threat of losing there home islands. .

Couldnt agree with you more...one attack was made..not very sporting and you was given guarantee that it wouldnt happen again. You then insisted on breaking a NAP with Russia over it and attacking Russia 4 months early. At that time there was not a single UK unit based in Russia. As you used this excuse to attack Russia early its only fitting that the UK do send troops over to help out(considering they were the reason for the early DOW). Its totally your fault UK troops are now in Russia.
On another issue I am always happy to have a blanket ban on sending forces to nuetrals.

We did have a good list of house rules like this we use to follow but others wanted to be able to do what they want so I guess they got ignored.

You set the precendent for doing things to stuff up the game by your bullshit DOW on Russia. I can make up a dozen reasons just like you did if I wanted to.

 

[unmerged(50486)]

Seems to me like your looking for balance that doesn't exist.... and will never exist in any game of HOI2.

The problem is the game has a domino effect that often turns into a snowball effect. No matter what NAP agreements or whatever are made somethings going to give.

I can see the validity of Mikes suggestions but it is 2 fold, And im saying this as someone who honestly prefers Axis over Allies. Regardless of what has happend to the me the UK in this game (ie loosing gibralter, the Royal navy and however many troops). The circumstances right now would still be the same. I would still have sent troops to Russia to compensate him for the German DOW, seeing as BAF triggered the debacle.

In any game, Any game what so ever... If china is annexed prior to Pearl Harbour you can expect that the USA is going to enter the War early. I highly doubt that if the Japs in Real life had of annexed China that USA or even Russia would not have done something.

If you had the most balanced game in the world then Axis would loose every time.... Axis need to be more crafty and prudent, im not directing that at axis in this game but axis in every game in general. You cant expect to always press the Green button, sometimes the Red button is going to be pressed and a snowball effect will take over.

It's just a game, so many rules take away the principles of war.

 

[mike8472]

You need to learn to tell the turth for a change. This is not a game anymore we need to address these points or one of our players wont be back.

You addmitted to me YOU broke the NAP with your miltary access with the UK and allowing them to attack me while were ment to have a NAP

So if you broke the NAP how did i break it when there was not 1 in affect as you had already voided it with your actions.

I told you what germany expected of you as the agreived party who was attacked from your lands. You refused to pay rightful compensation as you admitted your actions were wrong. Not only did your gurantee that it wouldnt happen again demostrate your guilt but you also admitted it was a breach of the NAP.

So how on earth you are still carrying on about that i breached it is beyond lunacy when you have already admitted gilt. You only had to pay germany compensation for your breach of th NAP and also an act of war on germany, that would have avoided the situation. You were to piged headed to do it, you though i wouldnt follow through with my threats. Well i called your bluff as it was no threat, Germany follows thorugh with its demands if they are not meet espicaly after being stabbed in the back.

I think your more sore over the fact you couldnt bully germany around and get your own way like normal. You tried to wage a proxy war against germany early by letting the UK base from your lands, how sad.

Like ive said 10 times now but you dont seem to be able to read or read german. I have no problem with the UK sending Units to russia once at war like it is now, thats fine. It basing pre-war in nuetruals that is the problem.

So stop talking all this other rubish. It was the UK basing forces in russia that started all this. I dont know what possed you and mighty to collude in such a manner, but the UK getting hammered is no exucse to resort to such tactics.

Hopefully we can work it out if not, 4 player games will be the largest we get for some time. So start acting like and adult, dont change the subject.

Are we going to agree not to do basing of forces in neutral in all future games and ones just started. Yes or no.

 

[mike8472]

Seems to me like your looking for balance that doesn't exist.... and will never exist in any game of HOI2.

The problem is the game has a domino effect that often turns into a snowball effect. No matter what NAP agreements or whatever are made somethings going to give.

I can see the validity of Mikes suggestions but it is 2 fold, And im saying this as someone who honestly prefers Axis over Allies. Regardless of what has happend to the me the UK in this game (ie loosing gibralter, the Royal navy and however many troops). The circumstances right now would still be the same. I would still have sent troops to Russia to compensate him for the German DOW, seeing as BAF triggered the debacle.

In any game, Any game what so ever... If china is annexed prior to Pearl Harbour you can expect that the USA is going to enter the War early. I highly doubt that if the Japs in Real life had of annexed China that USA or even Russia would not have done something.

If you had the most balanced game in the world then Axis would loose every time.... Axis need to be more crafty and prudent, im not directing that at axis in this game but axis in every game in general. You cant expect to always press the Green button, sometimes the Red button is going to be pressed and a snowball effect will take over.

It's just a game, so many rules take away the principles of war.

I agree you with you mighty, we dont need many rules if any. The basing of UK or even US forces in russia is not an issue when all parties are at war.

Its the use of nuetrals to attack another nation.

E.g like what you did attacking germany from nuetral russia. Or what nolan did and attack Japan from Neutral russia. Had the first event not happened war in russia would have started on the historical date like normal with our group.

Once the USSR and US is in the war you can send all the forces you like to russia to help if yous want, if thats your strategy no problem with that. Only basing there pre-war when that nation is nuetral is the issue.

 

[unmerged(5892)]

Wow, you guys are still on about this?

For my 2 cents, as some one not part of the game in question, I'd suggest the following:

No use of bases for the purposes of striking against a nation neutral to the 'host'. Eg, no use of air bases for Germany in Japan to use against the USSR if Japan is neutral to the Soviets. No basing of UK in the USSR if the Mol-Ribb pact is in place. Basing for other purposes is ok, but bare in mind one RL example of the dolittle raid where US aircrews that crashed in the Amur river region had their aircraft impounded, and aircrews interned.

No basing of large forces in puppets/minor allies to save on supplies pre-war, unless that nation is human controlled. Use logistics generals - thats what they are there for.

But don't let me stop our two resident 3 year olds throwing the rattle out of the pram...

 

[unmerged(16810)]

As usual when the tide turns the dummy spits :rofl:


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Ill agree no access to nutrals from now on except by event.

This has always been a standing rule in our group but this game for some reason this rule was relaxed. We should have nipped it in the bud back then with MG,s aircraft in USSR but we didn,t. Instead Mike used it as an excuse to break his word and attack Majors USSR early.
No US forces were committed to Soviet territory (even after Stalins request to) or were to have been untill German aircraft appeared in Asia. And I remember at the time warning the Axis that this ment US forces could well be sent to Soviet territory on the chat and Mike said he was fine with it.

If we use historic DOW dates this will include Italy 1940 but Germany v USSR may be a bit more complicated.

Id prefer an open DOW. Those are the games where the blobbing exploiters are shown up for the arcade style players they are

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No game tonight

So this game is every friday from now on?

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[mike8472]

My god these bone heads actualy agreed to my proposal that first apeared 5 pages back, can it be they forgot there own bable for 2 minutes and actualy read what i wrote.

I prefer open DOW as well, im all for it. To limit to historic DOW for every nations simply casues to many complications and favors one side or the other to much. At lest if its open there can be action and counter action to keep it balanced.

There was no word brocken by me, Major breached the NAP so it wa no in effect when i DOW on him. He had his chance to fix the situation. I was more then fiar by giving him the chance to keep the peace, i should have simply DOW straight away in hind sight and will in future if other players in engage in such exploits.

I would say moving into the second half of 43 with the Axis launching the most powerful offensive so far seen and easily pushing aside all soviet forces. I have never seen the USSR need 100 UK forces to hold the line in Russia before. Where are all the russian forces i wonder, boged down in china perhaps. Maybe russia as simplye been forces to spend alot more on its airfroce then previous games due to airpower acutlay being useful now in 1.3. Nolan sure says alot about European affiars when there are barely and US service men in europe in 1943. Germany wishes the US would put its words into actions for a change and come and fight the real enemy the German, stop leaving your russian allies to do all the dieing, cowards. Come to france and meat the German army if you can make it ashore alive.

Well only major has proposed Friday, we all have to agree to it. BB has informed be she will only be getting her treatments every 3 weeks now. So she will be free alot more to play. I would prefer to play this flexible game more and get it finished and keep newer games to less session per week till this current game is finished. Becuse after i smite yous, should keep yous quiet for a few days, well maybe.

 

[Majorball]

I will add that Mike was greatly assisted by the botched raid of Uk airforce from Russia. He actullay wiped out 9 UK air divisions and then he makes demands for compensation(I dont accept demands from a raving lunatic). Fact is you broke our NAP an attacked 4 months early. I cant deny the UK attacked from my territory but I did give you my my word that it wouldnt happen again. Just remember I am not the one who made the attacks but you decided to use it as an excuse to attack me. You should have been asking Churchill for compensation.

You cannot have a completely open DOW date. The Allies are severly restricted by gearing limits early in the game. It stuffs up the MRR pact with Russia also if Poland is annexed before the historical date. You need Danzig event for war in Europe regardless. We tried all this other stuff with a guy called Konev. Then when he Allied Poland brought Austria into the Alliance in 1936..attacked Hungary everyone called him a cheat!!

 

[mike8472]

Here we go post after post. Im not going to let you get away with it.

Major you already admited YOU broke the NAP by allowing the UK to base from your lands and attack me. End of story, your fault.

Since no NAP was in place becuase you broke it, i wasnt aware we made a new one afte you borke the NAP for the last 3 months before normal war, dont reacall that.

As far as Germany is concerned those planes were mearly painted in Royal Air force colours, they were supplied and fueled by soviets resources, used soviet bases, and probably soviet pilots. Plain and simple, giving me a gurantee after im already attacked means nothing without hard curreny in my hand to give to widows of the german airmen who beat of this dasterdly and pre-meditated attack upon Germany. Im sure ill have to post this again in a few posts, maybe copy an past from now on.

We are already playin open DOW except for danzig all other dates are worked out between players. If we go fixed dates its fixed dates for ALL no excuses no exceptions. Dosnt matter if UK is overun, US cant join, Italy stays out until 1940, no war with USSR until historic date, No Japan in war til Dec 1941 and so on. If thats what we want so be it. But it will mean even by events DOWs will not be allowed, the dates must be stuck to. I think its a bit extreme, but if it keeps everyone out of the war until a reasonable time and if thats what everyone wants.

I think the only problem is people using gamey exploits of basing and attacking from neutrals. Normaly DOW dates arent a real concern.

 

[Majorball]

Here we go post after post. Im not going to let you get away with it.

Major you already admited YOU broke the NAP by allowing the UK to base from your lands and attack me. End of story, your fault.

Since no NAP was in place becuase you broke it, i wasnt aware we made a new one afte you borke the NAP for the last 3 months before normal war, dont reacall that.

Any excuse you like Mike. Make up your rules as you got along. You conquering countries I had trade agreements with could be considered as breaking the NAP. I didnt launch the attacks from Russia territory it was the UK player. When I was informed of such an attack I told the UK player not to do it again. But you still insisted on attacking me and breaking our agreement. Our agreement said nothing about foreign forces in your country. As soon as I knew of the attack I immediately said not to do it again..publicly in front of everyone.Then you start making demands telling me to do this and do that and I told you to shove it. End of story. I am sure we are entertaining everyone here so I will give you right of last reply, yes, you heard I will give you the chance to say any rubbish you like and I wont respond!!

I think the only problem is people using gamey exploits of basing and attacking from neutrals. Normaly DOW dates arent a real concern.

It is not a gamey exploit......The game allows military access of other countries. I have no problem of not putting troops in neutral countries. For some reason you are blind and not reading posts very carefully. I agree that no troops should be in neutral countries you do not have to argue anymore. I agreed with you about 10 posts ago!!

 

[unmerged(16810)]

Ah...good, so thats all settled then. Lets hear no more about it. hehehe


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[mike8472]

Your gurantee that it wouldnt happen again only fixed half the problem. A NAP is a gurantee of non-agression you broke by allowing this action to happen from your soil. How was i ment to trust you again when you just broke our treaty. Compensation was required for the loss of German manpower and resources no matter how small they were, air combat still takes up IC to repare the planes. Sure i killed the UK planes but my planes still suffered considerable damage in thoses battles. Probably cost me 50 IC in replacements to repair them all.

Germany does not forget about being stabbed in the back while an agreement is ment to be in place, once burnt twice shy. All your compensation would have done is to keep things balanced as i should not hav lost anything from your actions prior to our normal war date. Becuase i did it would have been perfectly normal for you to say right, we did the wrong thing in regards to the NAP, to keep the NAP it wont happen again and hear is some compensation to make up the the loses you suffered becuase of soviet actions. 500 Supplies would have covered it or 500 of any resource, its mainly the gesture that counts. But as we know your to pig headed to admit even when your wrong and yes major you were wrong on this point you just dont like to admit it.

I agree totaly with the no basing in neutrals or launching attacks.

 

[Majorball]

Next session for this game will be 7pm Friday please post early if you cant make this time.

 

[mike8472]

BB and Nolan are turning up Thursday night and Friday night to play this game as we discussed on sundat night with them, and you did your dummy spit remeber.

 

[Majorball]

BB and Nolan are turning up Thursday night and Friday night to play this game as we discussed on sundat night with them, and you did your dummy spit remeber.

Ok with me.

 

[unmerged(17563)]

Could someone email me the save so I can have a look at SPain before the session? Thanks

 

[unmerged(5892)]

Could someone email me the save so I can have a look at SPain before the session? Thanks

Meh...

I only sent your navy on a suicide mission, and got 2 stacks of units cut off and destroyed.

Oh, that and the UK invaded Spain and is 1 VP away from annexing you...

 

[unmerged(17563)]

hehe joel

I assume the game is for tommorw at 8? or is it 7??? I assume 8...

 

[mike8472]

Well thursday was orginaly set for 7pm, not sure why major said 8. Perhaps he needs to feed himself before we pawn him.

Would be better to start at 7pm as munster will probably need to finish at 10.30

Lets also plan for an ice long session Friday night. So BB have a nap during the day, so you can prepare for the vicotry parades through the axis capitals and the beheaded leaders of the allies and commitern.

 

[unmerged(16810)]

Ill be ready from 7

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