3.3 Unity Open Beta Discussion Thread

[Cry_Havok]

One thing that is severly lacking is planetary ascension feeling good, particularly on anything other than a capitol. Ascending specialist worlds needs to give an output bonus, because reduced upkeep doesn't do much when you have adequate inputs, and building slots are generally scarcer than districts.

In my current playthrough (F-Xenophile Materialist Feudal Pleasure Seakers with Master Crafters) I primarily ascended my capitol and a rural world because until I got a research station online ascending any sort of research world just felt like a waste. because consumer goods were not the limiting factor on science,

 

[Fatetaker]

Now I know what it feels like to be someone from the 1.19 and prior era.... I have a really bad feeling that my stellaris days are going to be frozen at 3.2 now....

I don't know why they hate wide playstyles and tradition/ascension focused builds so much... I could take the small little changes since 1.19 that slowly picked away at it and made it more difficult but this just feels like a brazen and bold attack on wide players and those who love to rush the tradition and ascension trees to help push their empires forward through the ages...

I'd rather wish they'd use these resources on actually improving the game engine. At full tilt this game uses less then 30% of my system resources and will begin to chug late game with all the AI doing AI things in the background, especially on larger maps. They need to fix those issues and stop trying to make their game more like their other grindy games...

end rant... sorry I am just so frustrated with paradox right now...

 

[grommile]

I don't know why they hate wide playstyles and tradition/unity focused builds

They... clearly don't hate tradition/unity focused builds?

I mean, I haven't touched the beta yet, but it's fairly clear from this thread that Unity is a major bottleneck for many strategies, which very much goes against the suggestion that Paradox "hate" Unity focused builds.

 

[Bezborg]

Now I know what it feels like to be someone from the 1.19 and prior era....

**evil and self-defeating laugh**


Man, I'm still angry at the "great con" that was the elimination of various FTL methods. That was the selling point of the game for me, believe it or not. I miss it dearly.

 

[grommile]

Man, I'm still angry at the "great con" that was the elimination of various FTL methods. That was the selling point of the game for me, believe it or not. I miss it dearly.

I wouldn't mind so much if the stated rationale bore any resemblance to the subsequent reality.

The claim was "we can do awesome new things if we do this"... but the vast majority of the new things they've done since then could have been done without changing how FTL worked.

 

[Bezborg]

I wouldn't mind so much if the stated rationale bore any resemblance to the subsequent reality.

The claim was "we can do awesome new things if we do this"... but the vast majority of the new things they've done since then could have been done without changing how FTL worked.

Absolutely agreed.

They cut a unique thing from the game for... "galactic terrain"? For starbases that can barely defend temselves? We traded high sci-fi concepts for....starbases at chokepoints? That barely perform this function anyway, years after...? Lol.

 

[Fatetaker]

**evil and self-defeating laugh**


Man, I'm still angry at the "great con" that was the elimination of various FTL methods. That was the selling point of the game for me, believe it or not. I miss it dearly.

In 3.2 my community is actually running a mod that adds in wormhole travel as a default tech that gets better as you tech up. Hyperlanes are used for unexplored areas and wormholes once you know safe routes or feeling frisky for a blind jump around a blocking FE.

 

[Fatetaker]

They... clearly don't hate tradition/unity focused builds?

I mean, I haven't touched the beta yet, but it's fairly clear from this thread that Unity is a major bottleneck for many strategies, which very much goes against the suggestion that Paradox "hate" Unity focused builds.

I mean tradition/ascension lol, my bad. They clearly love "Unity" builds, as now if you arent one and playing tall, well kick rocks...

 

[Bezborg]

In 3.2 my community is actually running a mod that adds in wormhole travel as a default tech that gets better as you tech up. Hyperlanes are used for unexplored areas and wormholes once you know safe routes or feeling frisky for a blind jump around a blocking FE.

Might you have a link to this mod, good sir?

 

[Panzerslothen]

Man, I'm still angry at the "great con" that was the elimination of various FTL methods. That was the selling point of the game for me, believe it or not. I miss it dearly.

It wasn't a "con", great or otherwise. It was an entirely logical and justified decision. Though I agree that the different types of FTL was a cool idea, in practice it meant that defending an Empire against fleets popping across borders with reckless abandon due to Warp was like an agonising game of whack-a-mole. In the days of uber-doomstacks, that was a very difficult prospect to counter and very much not fun.

The "galactic terrain" point was necessary for the sake of gameplay management.

[I reckon Warp could make a come back in the form of a VERY short ranged form of Jump Drive travel, though].

 

[Bezborg]

It wasn't a "con", great or otherwise. It was an entirely logical and justified decision. Though I agree that the different types of FTL was a cool idea, in practice it meant that defending an Empire against fleets popping across borders with reckless abandon due to Warp was like an agonising game of whack-a-mole. In the days of uber-doomstacks, that was a very difficult prospect to counter and very much not fun.

The "galactic terrain" point was necessary for the sake of gameplay management.

[I reckon Warp could make a come back in the form of a VERY short ranged form of Jump Drive travel, though].

I'm sorry mate, but your "logical" is my "silly and hysterical". No offense to you or the devs haha.

But look, if the problem at hand is "you can't defend a system because of FTL ships zipping around... let me spend 2 seconds and think of an alternative solution instead of cutting out "cool ideas"...

hmmm


I got it! Let's give starbases modules that block zipping around and "tractor" any ENEMY ship that initiates or finalizes a jump to a friendly system in its radius? Behold, choke points without cutting out a limb from the game's overall conceptual integrity.

Or something else, imagination is the limit.

 

[Fatetaker]

It wasn't a "con", great or otherwise. It was an entirely logical and justified decision. Though I agree that the different types of FTL was a cool idea, in practice it meant that defending an Empire against fleets popping across borders with reckless abandon due to Warp was like an agonising game of whack-a-mole. In the days of uber-doomstacks, that was a very difficult prospect to counter and very much not fun.

The "galactic terrain" point was necessary for the sake of gameplay management.

[I reckon Warp could make a come back in the form of a VERY short ranged form of Jump Drive travel, though].

I know you will just "bot" down vote my reply like you do any other post.

But i'm have to shut down your "logic" with a simply counter point and by a simple question.

Have you heard of FTL inhibitor tech?

 

[Panzerslothen]

"Down vote"? What is this, Reddit? Calm down dear, it's a "Respectfully Disagree", not a "Disagree" or "You're full of [redacted]".

Anyway, yes I remember the FTL inhibitors quite well, thank you very much. I also remember that they were very hit and miss. And when they did work, it had a tendency of diverting that massive Doomstack right where you didn't want it, almost as often as getting it where you did.

All I'm saying is, the hyperlane base approach is easier to mentally process visually, helping you to understand the direction threats are likely to come from, and plan accordingly. Surprises still happen of course, as they should, but the hyperlane approach very much helps.

EDIT: Alright, Fate, if you're going to act like a petulant child then I'm just going to stick you on the Ignore list and be done with it. Good game night night.

 

[Bezborg]

All I'm saying is, the hyperlane base approach is easier to mentally process visually

You're technically right, but this is not an issue for normal humans with normal cognitive abilities. Who had an issue with the visual complexity of the game back when we had warp gates? It was still the galactic map only it didn't look like a piece of broken glass.

Anyway, what's done is done, and it's not going back. I just wanted the echo of my disappointment with the hyperlane decision sound off once again...if anyone hears it.

 

[Panzerslothen]

Who had an issue with the visual complexity of the game back when we had warp gates? It was still the galactic map only it didn't look like a piece of broken glass.

Anyway, what's done is done, and it's not going back. I just wanted the echo of my disappointment with the hyperlane decision sound off once again...if anyone hears it.

Ah, I see what you did there. Rude and wrong, yet subtle

I had an idea the other night for space travel, in which everything effectively functioned a la the old Warp system, butit was waaaaay slower for inter-system travel; could still be initiated only from the edge of a system; and required a specific 'target' direction to be set. If that direction went through other systems, the travelling fleet/ships would emerge in that system (getting intercepted by the gravity of stars/planets in-system). However, hyperlanes would remain, and massively speed up the travel time for anyone travelling along them. A best of both worlds approach, of sorts.

It's all academic through as I really don't see the old style system coming back either.

 

[Fatetaker]

"Down vote"? What is this, Reddit? Calm down dear, it's a "Respectfully Disagree", not a "Disagree" or "You're full of [redacted]".

Anyway, yes I remember the FTL inhibitors quite well, thank you very much. I also remember that they were very hit and miss. And when they did work, it had a tendency of diverting that massive Doomstack right where you didn't want it, almost as often as getting it where you did.

All I'm saying is, the hyperlane base approach is easier to mentally process visually, helping you to understand the direction threats are likely to come from, and plan accordingly. Surprises still happen of course, as they should, but the hyperlane approach very much helps.

Lmao Reddit, sorry didn't know "Respectfully Disagree" means you like the post, guess I got my symbols and intent language/action backwards, I am so bad.

Anyways lol...

Hyperlanes are boring and don't make any sense in space game that has other FTL technologies. Jump Drives are still a thing and I use them to do exactly what your biggest gripe is as soon as I tech into them in vanilla. Hyperlanes are a sad crutch to make the simpler and easier for beginners, I am sad I didn't get into Stellaris when FTL choices were just as critical as your first tech picks and traditions.

As for trapping doomstacks in the wrong mouse trap... I mean do you have an issue with wack-a-mole or not??

Also haven't played in awhile, don't Titans get inhibitors too? (Didn't tech far enough to get them in 3.3)

 

[Bezborg]

Ah, I see what you did there. Rude and wrong, yet subtle

I had an idea the other night for space travel, in which everything effectively functioned a la the old Warp system, butit was waaaaay slower for inter-system travel; could still be initiated only from the edge of a system; and required a specific 'target' direction to be set. If that direction went through other systems, the travelling fleet/ships would emerge in that system (getting intercepted by the gravity of stars/planets in-system). However, hyperlanes would remain, and massively speed up the travel time for anyone travelling along them. A best of both worlds approach, of sorts.

It's all academic through as I really don't see the old style system coming back either.

At the very least, they could have designed hyperlanes without actual entry/exist points within the system.

It would be infinitely less tedious if they allowed ships to jump to a hyperlane from any point at the edge of the system.

The sloooow, tedious, lame, primitive slog that ships go through... hyperlane - then across the system - hyperlane, - across the system - hyperlane...


It's as if they didn't want simply to eliminate the more efficient FTL methods, they wanted to punish you for ever liking them in the first place. You must suffer now, muhahahh

 

[Panzerslothen]

At the very least, they could have designed hyperlanes without actual entry/exist points within the system.

It would be infinitely less tedious if they allowed ships to jump to a hyperlane from any point at the edge of the system.

How would that work? Sounds like you're suggesting ships could be on the 'right' side of a system, with a hyperlane over on the 'left', but your ships would teleport across the rest of the space of the system to get to a hyperlane on the other side of the system? Surely that cannot be right. If that's wrong then please explain how you see that actually working.

I think hyperlane access points are entirely logical (again), myself. For one thing, they're visual and easy to understand. For another, they enable Hyperlane Ambushing.

 

[makaramus]

Now I know what it feels like to be someone from the 1.19 and prior era.... I have a really bad feeling that my stellaris days are going to be frozen at 3.2 now....

I don't know why they hate wide playstyles and tradition/ascension focused builds so much... I could take the small little changes since 1.19 that slowly picked away at it and made it more difficult but this just feels like a brazen and bold attack on wide players and those who love to rush the tradition and ascension trees to help push their empires forward through the ages...

I'd rather wish they'd use these resources on actually improving the game engine. At full tilt this game uses less then 30% of my system resources and will begin to chug late game with all the AI doing AI things in the background, especially on larger maps. They need to fix those issues and stop trying to make their game more like their other grindy games...

end rant... sorry I am just so frustrated with paradox right now...

"hey look at me lololol I spammed my corvettes and snowballed entire game now I am unstoppable hahahah"
playing wide is still viable, you will still have the most resources of galaxy and control the economics of it. You will have most minerals and alloys all the time
but now you won't be bright star of technology anymore you will be at where everyone else is

 

[Ixal]

It wasn't a "con", great or otherwise. It was an entirely logical and justified decision. Though I agree that the different types of FTL was a cool idea, in practice it meant that defending an Empire against fleets popping across borders with reckless abandon due to Warp was like an agonising game of whack-a-mole. In the days of uber-doomstacks, that was a very difficult prospect to counter and very much not fun.

The "galactic terrain" point was necessary for the sake of gameplay management.

[I reckon Warp could make a come back in the form of a VERY short ranged form of Jump Drive travel, though].

Or you know you could concentrate your defenses on planets, the only systems that actually mattered as they spread your borders and the enemy raiding your other systems was just the cost of war.

But some people who were unwilling to adapt to the way the game works and can't stomach the idea that the enemy actually hurting them whined like little children and sadly got Paradox to dumb the game down by copying what every other games does and turned the vastness of space into a set of highways.
Similar to how some people whine now that the unity cost for leaders destroys the game because they can't spam 6 science ships in the first years and reroll leaders for the perfect traits.