223) FEEDBACK: Papal elections too predictable

[Solmyr]

Papal elections too predictable

Assuming you play the standard 1066 scenario, Odo the bishop of Avranches is ALWAYS elected Pope after Anselm of Lucca dies. This is because Odo has the best diplomacy and intrigue stats, and hence gets elected almost by default. After Odo, the most sure candidates are the bishop of Altmark and some Irish bishop. I assume a similar predictability holds true in the other scenarios. Perhaps there should be some random factor in the Papal election?

 

[kurtbrian]

logged.

 

[Cat Lord]

I think this is WAD, is it not ?

Cat

 

[unmerged(2456)]

Sounds like WAD to me.

 

[BiB]

The annoying part is that Avranches becomes part of the Papal states and stays part of it

 

[Solmyr]

All I'm saying is that some randomness would be nice. The best candidate did not always get elected. As it is, you can always click on the Pope's portrait and his next three successors are listed right there. Would be better if any of those three could potentially be the next one.

 

[unmerged(2456)]

Only if your next succesor were randomly chosen in the same way, including the posibility of someone with a different last name, if he's on the list.

 

[Solmyr]

Only if your next succesor were randomly chosen in the same way, including the posibility of someone with a different last name, if he's on the list.

What exactly does this have to do with anything? I'm not playing the Pope, and the Pope doesn't have dynastic inheritance.

 

[unmerged(28030)]

I agree, papal elections are a certainty in this game, while in reality they aren't. Take the present. No one in the world has the slightest idea who the next pope is going to be. (Although I've heard probably Italian.)

The top three in succession are always listed in the pope charachter window. Maybe have the game randomly select one out of those three?

The reality is no election is garranteed. Remember this is an election. Sometimes the Curia fail to arrive at a decision on the 1st ballot. They use smoke to signal to the people in St. Peter's Square (and the world) the results of each round of voting. If the smoke is black, no one was elected. When the smoke is white, a pope has been elected successfully.

In CK, the smoke is always white the first time.

 

[unmerged(1047)]

I agree, papal elections are a certainty in this game, while in reality they aren't. Take the present. No one in the world has the slightest idea who the next pope is going to be. (Although I've heard probably Italian.)

The top three in succession are always listed in the pope charachter window. Maybe have the game randomly select one out of those three?

The reality is no election is garranteed. Remember this is an election. Sometimes the Curia fail to arrive at a decision on the 1st ballot. They use smoke to signal to the people in St. Peter's Square (and the world) the results of each round of voting. If the smoke is black, no one was elected. When the smoke is white, a pope has been elected successfully.

In CK, the smoke is always white the first time.

Historically speaking, another Italian pope would be no surprise. I can't even recall off the top of my head the last pope that was not either Italian, French or Spanish, prior to the current Pope. In fact, I would not be surprised if it went all the way back to the Crusades.

Gameplay wise, the main part of the problem - the sucking up of territory at every papal election - has been fixed, so it's far less of an issue. Who the Pope is has really become cosmetic - as it should be.

(Although there should I think perhaps still be papal elections and a papal court even if he controls no territory. I knocked out the Papal States for the first time today, and noticed that (I think) it shut those off too, when it shouldn't; the Pope can, has, and *does* exist without significant territory to rule.)

 

[unmerged(2456)]

Whoa!!! Talk about dragging up some old discussions....

BTW Solymr what i was talking about there was that even in elective law you always know who will be your successor because of the power each has. If you want to change it for the pope, fine, but elevtive law should be dealt with in a similar manner.

I do agree though that stats shouldn't be the main factor. IMO peity followed by prestige should be as well maybe as having chaste and zealous traits (skepitcal, herical and excommed., kinslayer obviously making you inelgiable...perhaps crusader as well). After piety, presitge ans traits then should come stats...

 

[unmerged(28030)]

IMO peity followed by prestige should be as well maybe as having chaste and zealous traits (skepitcal, herical and excommed., kinslayer obviously making you inelgiable...perhaps crusader as well). After piety, presitge ans traits then should come stats...

Let's not make it too complicated. All this has to be programmed. Besides, who knows if someone thousands of miles away is "skeptical" or not? Stick with piety. Quite a few of the popes were sinister tyrants -- not chaste, humble confessors.

 

[unmerged(2456)]

Well piety, but not being heretical, excommunicated or kinslayer as traits.

I mean come on having an excommunicated pope as your head?
Having someone who is brandished as a heritic as your head?
Or even having someone who willing defying the commandment "though shalt not commit murder" on his own people no less??

But i guess other than those obviosuly major traits being automatic qualifiers for not being named pope that piety is okay.

 

[unmerged(28030)]

You have a point about those three traits.

On kinslayer: Popes probably had people killed, (besides the heretics) -- I'm not an expert on papal history but they probably never elected a known murderer as pope.

 

[unmerged(2456)]

On kinslayer: Popes probably had people killed, (besides the heretics) -- I'm not an expert on papal history but they probably never elected a known murderer as pope.

Yes, but only kinslayer and crusader are the only ways the enginve can tell that someone has killed someone else.