2021 is coming, any news?

[Andrew28475]

As before

I appreciate that and the same goes for my replies.

Cheers

It is a minority stake of 33%. So yes you are correct in that regard. You can also say that it's a "Paradox game" because they are indeed publishing it. However, there is a stark contrast to a Paradox Development game and a Paradox Published game. Any person who has followed Paradox for a long time knows the difference. That is all I was trying to say. Bloodlines 2 is not the typical Paradox game.

Also their biggest customer, so what paradox says goes. So I will agree to disagree with you on that point.

But they did tell people. They told people that Mitsoda and Cluney left. Sure, it may not have been the day after or at a time people would want, and yes it was leaked before an official announcement came, but they still told people. Losing Mitsoda was a big blow to the game's standing in the community. I understand that. However, we will not know the reasonings behind the move due to confidentiality agreements, etc. It happened, it's unfortunate, and we must move on.

Though where they panning on telling us, or where they pushed into telling people?

It is not ridiculous to not be filled with hope based on what has been happening with the staff. I totally get that. However, it is ridiculous to think that any game company would have done any differently in the same situation. It is just not how the game industry (or most industries for that matter) does business. The only way we ever hear about stuff like this is through leaks, which may or may not be completely factual. So that is why I said you are expecting too much. They will never comment on staff changes, unless it was a recent hiring or departure of a major position. Paradox is not doing anything out of the ordinary when it comes to this specific matter.

Well, I will disagree with you again, customers in other industries would go elsewhere fairly quickly, if they treated customers like that.
Would you be happy, with me if agreed to fix or exchange your toilet or boiler, took money upfront, and kept kicking the job back, without proper explanation.
No, you ask for your money back and get some else to do it, the only difference here is, I can't get bloodlines game from anyone else.

Well release dates are never written in stone. That's just development. So you can't knock them too hard for delaying the game. It happens with every single development company. As for the promise of regular updates, you also have to keep in mind circumstances. Regular updates implies a lot of traction is occurring and more specifically, there is legitimate information to share. Due to staff changes, holidays, and maybe other reasons we are unaware of, they obviously do not have any updates of meaningful information to give. They have even stated that they are working hard on the game and will give an update when they have one. Yes, they may be more silent than you would like, but it happens.

As far as I was concerned it was, written in stone as you set a date, and failed to meet it, pushed back and back, I suspect due to chaos at hard labs looking at employee reviews. They also coincidently talk about paradox as well, as being half in half out, hence why I agree to disagree with you.

So I think this is what really nails it on the head for me. Please don't take offense, but the fact you have never followed another game in development clearly shows. I have followed numerous games in development, Paradox or not, for many years. That is why I'm trying to explain that unless it's about 6 months until release, you usually do not get any updates from the developer. Typically you may get a trailer, usually CGI-heavy, and potentially a couple articles where they talk about the game. You rarely ever see actual gameplay video or detailed description of features until the game is nearly ready for release. One of those reasons is because in development, things can change easily so they don't want to talk about one feature early on that may end up on the cutting floor later. The second primary reason is gameplay videos not only show the current WIP product (so it needs to be smooth) but gameplay videos and detailed information creates hype. So it's best to have that hype building near release, as most preorders occur close to release.

Then that is bad practice in any other industry, as you do not give customers a false expectation, as that leads to complaints, and people not liking your company very much. Like as said before using plumbing and gas, you say you're doing something for the customer, you better expect people to be annoyed if you do not deliver. So the game industry as a whole maybe, should not give a release date unless set in stone, as that is just stupid to do so.

My point in all of this is that besides the firing of Mitsoda which was shocking and not typical, the rest of how they have acted is very standard. To be honest, in most game developments, no one ever pays attention to staff movement because it is so routine. Again, I'm not talking specifically about someone as important as Mitsoda or Cluney, but regular staff working on the game. This is why I said you're expecting too much. One thing I can assure you on is that as we get closer to the release of the game (whenever that may be), you will begin to get more updates about the game. It may not necessarily come from the developer itself, but may come from 3rd parties working with the developer to release information.

That is also very bad practice, as high turn over of staff, leads to poor productivity, and mental health problems, which is not good for anyone, so may be the game industry really needs to unionize it workforce for their own good.

Edit: The mental health issue does actually seem a bigger problem than I thought in the coding and computer programming sector, this coupled with a study on insecurity in jobs, which I know about seems, your sector has a big issue to deal with on that front. This was from a google search I just done, their are loads of examples, so this industry practice needs to end, one way or another, just for sake of people employed by Gaming Companies in general, this is not just Paradox.

Link to job insecuirty https://www.peoplemanagement.co.uk/...mpacts the,research published today has found.
Link to Computer Programmers https://www.businessinsider.com.au/syndromes-drive-coders-crazy-2014-3

 

[aaronshadow577]

just want to go on record i wasn't trolling...so please don't say i was
second...id like to apologize for my rude behavior about the game "wanting this and that" i thought the game was being completely remade but in one video this guy explains that development hasn't changed..idk for sure but to it sounds like the game is on hold with it's development, everything is still there and stuff just wont progress till the job openings are filled then they will pick up where they left off
this should put you guys at ease

and BL1 also had staff problems like what BL2 has..but the video explained to me what im explaining to you..just my opinion "the games development is on hold but everything is still there and will pick up (or move faster)(new) when the job openings are filled" that's my take on the video and everyone has there own opinion..im sure most of you agree with mine but you don't have to
anyways ill see you guys later

 

[Bear Squared]

That video is not an official Paradox announcement, though.

I'd prefer a source within the dev team or an official announcement from Paradox - or at least something from social media if nothing else.

 

[Bear Squared]

I have to agree with @RagnarokCzD .

Back in ye old times videogame companies would work behind the curtains and no one would have known anything until the game released. We don't live in those times anymore. Nowadays, we have a developed a culture/habit of trying to get a community as involved as possible, if nothing else, because hype is a strong asset to be used by the marketing department. Also, it allows a company to receive a form of income before the product is even finished, similar to Kickstarter, Steam EA, etc. Some EAs even allow people a more active contribution, by play testing and bug-reporting the game, for the devs or alongside them.

If you (as a company) was plenty talkative up until this moment, and you have been accepting people's money (pre-orders) then IMO you own them some kind of justification over what is going on. Or a progress report. Doesn't need to be fancy or overly complicated... something is better than nothing. It feels like the developers decided the best course of action was to run over to their bomb shelter, locked the door and refuse to acknowledge the outside world... of course some people are going to feel like there's something sketchy going on. Of course some people are going to draw conclusions.

Right now, I'm under the impression something went extremely wrong... because when things are going right, most people don't keep it to themselves. If they were happy/confident with what they are doing, they would be talkative, trying to engage the community (like they did before), trying to generate hype. Everyone makes mistakes and messes up sometimes, but the worst part is when they don't have the guts to acknowledge it, and to add insult to injury, decide to ignore their community like this. If the game is being scrapped and started over from scratch... just be honest. You'll lose revenue and the trust of your community either way, but at least you'll retain some of your integrity. People are willing to wait, just don't take them for fools, whose only worth is how much money they have in their pockets...

If a developer/publisher can't respect their community, then they deserve to lose that revenue. Sometimes, better than gathering a bunch of signatures, making protests or writing angry posts on the internet, is speaking with your money.

This. If you're taking in money for a promised product, especially in these development times, an accurate status update (not placeholder release dates that are wrong) are needed.

(Also, thanks @RagnarokCzD, since you were the originator that sparked this comment.)

 

[RagnarokCzD]

"the games development is on hold but everything is still there and will pick up (or move faster)(new) when the job openings are filled"

I have listened that video twice, and i didnt catch anything even simmilar to this ...
Where did you get that?

 

[aaronshadow577]

I have listened that video twice, and i didnt catch anything even simmilar to this ...
Where did you get that?

if you recall i said "idk for sure"...what exactly did you hear like what's your opinion after watching that video?

 

[RagnarokCzD]

I didnt asked how sure you are, but where did you get that ... so if you can aim me for that part of video, where is something simmilar discuised, that would be great.
Since i didnt find any info there, i have no opinion on this video ... honestly it seemed that he simply read everything that is writen on bloodlines.com ... so that is quite probably all right, but didnt bring anything new. :-/

 

[Sh4ark]

I gotta say.. Of all the things CD Projekt showed during their promotional pre release campaign, several not so long ago, even, a lot of things didn't make it in the final build. A few of the top of my head: mono wire features, city map with street names, braindance got reduced to a few story missions, Trauma Team is non existent. Those added to the numerous changes from 2018... I don't know, at this point everything they said about BL2 is subjected to change, especially after recent developments.

That said, I have currently 60h played of Cyberpunk and loving it. Still, could it have been so much better? Yes. I think the moral here is: be patient, don't pressure devs to release. It's going to harm more than help. If they don't talk about it, there's a good reason for it. To me, it's fairly obvious the game is going through a considerable transition, which means we'll have to reassess our expectations once the marketing starts anew.

 

[Gezz]

I gotta say.. Of all the things CD Projekt showed during their promotional pre release campaign, several not so long ago, even, a lot of things didn't make it in the final build. A few of the top of my head: mono wire features, city map with street names, braindance got reduced to a few story missions, Trauma Team is non existent. Those added to the numerous changes from 2018... I don't know, at this point everything they said about BL2 is subjected to change, especially after recent developments.

That said, I have currently 60h played of Cyberpunk and loving it. Still, could it have been so much better? Yes. I think the moral here is: be patient, don't pressure devs to release. It's going to harm more than help. If they don't talk about it, there's a good reason for it. To me, it's fairly obvious the game is going through a considerable transition, which means we'll have to reassess our expectations once the marketing starts anew.

I have 15h on Cyberjunk and I think it is worse than I expected. I guess I am just not interested in these type of characters and stories. It just feels like GTA to me....
The bugs are not as bad as I expected from CD Project or at least not the kind that have me quit the game!

We all have different limits as to how much bugs will hurt our experience and same will be true for Bloodlines 2.

 

[RagnarokCzD]

If they don't talk about it, there's a good reason for it.

In that case, it would be fair to share that reason ...

 

[Kliwarrior]

In that case, it would be fair to share that reason ...

My impression is as if the devs were "afraid" to say something that they don't know for sure if it will be present in the final version.

Until September 2019, to say the truth, the infos on the game had occurred with a certain regularity: clans, factions, disciplines, some footage. Obviously, many details were missing, but the impression was that since the release was imminent, for 1Q2020... we could really wait.
As I said, after the first delay (maybe really due to some performance problem or a bugfixing that required a little more time), at some point ,something went wrong.
The change at the top indicates that there has been a probable friction between the "primary client" (Pdox) and the developer (HSL and their entire extended team).

Was there something "missing" in the game? Did something have to be changed because "it couldn't work" or because "customer wouldn't like it"? Maybe.
There was certainly something not superficial or manageable in the first patch or two. (delaying a product means losing money, not just not earning it, let's remember this)

But at this point the "curtain of silence" fell. Where otehr PDS developers can happily make a screenshot of a mockup saying "look at how we are changing the UI, does it look better?" or "we are adding this, but everything could change before the release" (take a look at the other forums), here no one seems to have the courage to still bet on what will be and what will not be, and obviously show it to the public or simply talk about it.

Obviously, this is only a personal opinion, which leaves the time it finds.

 

[Andrew28475]

@Kliwarrior all we have are presonal opinions

 

[RagnarokCzD]

My impression is as if the devs were "afraid" to say something that they don't know for sure if it will be present in the final version.

Not just you ...
Also i wonder how bad those news can be, if someone in marketing tells something like: "it will be better to keep silent, for another half year, even if people are allready quite mad about us being silent".

Until September 2019, to say the truth, the infos on the game had occurred with a certain regularity: clans, factions, disciplines, some footage. Obviously, many details were missing, but the impression was that since the release was imminent, for 1Q2020... we could really wait.

Yup ...
That is why i believe that original release date was in fact solid, and what did we seen in demo is "kinda" what was planned ... but reactions on it, compared to amount of preorders they simply decided to create "higher rank" game, problem is that development started almost anew. :-/

The change at the top indicates that there has been a probable friction between the "primary client" (Pdox) and the developer (HSL and their entire extended team).

I can think about few more possibilities ... but since we will never know wich one was or wasnt right ... there is little to no point in speculating here.

Honestly i dont care anymore.
Whatever happened, every bad decision, every worse decision ... im more than willing to cast it all aside ... if they simply start to comunicate. -_-
Tell us what they have, what they aiming at ... that is all i want. :-/

 

[aaronshadow577]

I have 15h on Cyberjunk and I think it is worse than I expected. I guess I am just not interested in these type of characters and stories. It just feels like GTA to me....
The bugs are not as bad as I expected from CD Project or at least not the kind that have me quit the game!

We all have different limits as to how much bugs will hurt our experience and same will be true for Bloodlines 2.

tbh it kinda is a gta type game but it's a future, 1st person gta type game..then again saints row is closer to gta then any other game..except the other sequels that follow it like alien invasions and demons..but overall it's ok..i plan on getting Cyberpunk 2077 while waiting on BL2 since no one knows when it will release..and ragnorok your right..that video was giving us some info we didn't already know about..still the guy thinks it may release next year 2021...i just hope it does and not 2022

 

[RagnarokCzD]

Its a weird feeling to be right about something you didnt even said. :-/

 

[Astalic]

On a communicate CDPR said their main problem was dealing with the new gen because they had to make old gen + PC + new gen (+stadia iirc).

Deving on more than one plateform seem to burn a lot of ressources for the company.

If hardsuit (who don't have the size and the ressources of CDPR) try to do the same i think we don't have to mind too much about what is the main problem.

 

[Gezz]

I am not sure what your last sentence mean, but it certainly is concerning that they are porting the game to next gen consoles....

I wish they would just focus on polishing the game, not port it to consoles which will require even more polishing afterwards

 

[Jia Xu]

I am not sure what your last sentence mean, but it certainly is concerning that they are porting the game to next gen consoles....

I wish they would just focus on polishing the game, not port it to consoles which will require even more polishing afterwards

They're running a business. Millions of people are buying the new consoles. Not porting the game to the new consoles means missing out on a piece of that pie. First impressions also matter. They don't want the game to launch and have critics talking about how the graphics are dated, right out of the box because it's only forward-compatibility and not a true port.

 

[Andrew28475]

They're running a business. Millions of people are buying the new consoles. Not porting the game to the new consoles means missing out on a piece of that pie. First impressions also matter. They don't want the game to launch and have critics talking about how the graphics are dated, right out of the box because it's only forward-compatibility and not a true port.

I disagree, as I want to play now, and graphics are secondary to story. They can update the graphics later, or just wait for mods to do do.

 

[Jia Xu]

I disagree, as I want to play now, and graphics are secondary to story. They can update the graphics later, or just wait for mods to do do.

It's great that you want to play the game now but they're still running a business.