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JonStryker

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I'll look into it but it would be quite tricky to do without offending someone, but you gotta do that sometimes unfortunately.
On another note, are you planning to do the whole native names thing without an English version?
Also, since you're looking to diminish the size of large de iure kingdoms, might I suggest splitting off Scania and Götaland into one new kingdom?
If you are referring to the native country names: I always prefer more native names over less ones. I consider the "Speak English Dammit!" mod for SWMH a vile heresy :p But it is pretty easy with my mods to avert that by just removing the renamings file from common/landed_titles. That file holds 90% of the custom kingdom names and if you delete it all will revert back to English.
If you really want to help I can send you that .xls

I'll look into it but it would be quite tricky to do without offending someone, but you gotta do that sometimes unfortunately.
On another note, are you planning to do the whole native names thing without an English version?
Also, since you're looking to diminish the size of large de iure kingdoms, might I suggest splitting off Scania and Götaland into one new kingdom?

Splitting Sweden is of course possible. Then I'd probably have to remove the empire of Scandinavia and put e_sweden on the map as Sweden somehow breaking into two kingdoms doesn't make too much sense to me. I think I'll do just that.
 

JonStryker

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What do you guys think of the southern cut off point?

YwgUZaM.jpg


Should the map extend farther south or end farther north?
 

Slavicist

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What do you guys think of the southern cut off point?

YwgUZaM.jpg


Should the map extend farther south or end farther north?

I think it should go right there, because it gives the West African nations a coast.

No reason to extend it further south, unless you intend to include perhaps the entirety of Africa.
 

cziken201

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So lets make Polish, what is Polish. Silesia? Definetly polish, it was in the kingom from its beginning at 1025. Pomerania (Stettin etc.)? Not sure about that one. The tribes of Wolinians, Sorbs or others were under Polish kingdom for long time, but it was ultimately more german-cultured. Lesser Poland... that is a topic a bit harder. While the cultures there are definetly Polish, it was dfeinetly Polish for a long time, there were pretty major minorities. Id propose making it part of k_polska, but as a separate duchy, as is pomeranie to preussen. Now, we all know vilno is predominantly polish, and while it would be better for it to be polish, it makes more sense to be lithuanian, since its their capital. However, Grodno, eastern podlasie, gardinas or whatevs you call it, should be polish. Just as should be Lvov, which wasnt conquered only by Casimir II The Greatest, but also for about 20 years by Bolesław Chrobry (first king). We could also go full historical mode, and include all silesia, kresy wschodnie (the part of 1920's Poland, which we lsot after WW2), Eastern Pomerania, and a very small bit in the middle of slovakia and czechy. Danzig should also be Polish, however thats strongly debatable.

For other places, id suggest Karelia to be finnish, a Hugnary expanded a bit (revise trianon) into romania and other stuff. The small are around Tessin (cieszyn), should actually be czech, and now come empires. I wonder what is the dejure empire set up. Id guess stuff like vanilla Hispania, Britannia and francia are as it is. However Yugoslavia might be a thing, just as could be Intermarum (Ukraine, Belarus, all the baltics, Poland, and i think thats it). Also duchy dejure set up would be appreciated.
 

JonStryker

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So lets make Polish, what is Polish. Silesia? Definetly polish, it was in the kingom from its beginning at 1025. Pomerania (Stettin etc.)? Not sure about that one. The tribes of Wolinians, Sorbs or others were under Polish kingdom for long time, but it was ultimately more german-cultured. Lesser Poland... that is a topic a bit harder. While the cultures there are definetly Polish, it was dfeinetly Polish for a long time, there were pretty major minorities. Id propose making it part of k_polska, but as a separate duchy, as is pomeranie to preussen. Now, we all know vilno is predominantly polish, and while it would be better for it to be polish, it makes more sense to be lithuanian, since its their capital. However, Grodno, eastern podlasie, gardinas or whatevs you call it, should be polish. Just as should be Lvov, which wasnt conquered only by Casimir II The Greatest, but also for about 20 years by Bolesław Chrobry (first king). We could also go full historical mode, and include all silesia, kresy wschodnie (the part of 1920's Poland, which we lsot after WW2), Eastern Pomerania, and a very small bit in the middle of slovakia and czechy. Danzig should also be Polish, however thats strongly debatable.

For other places, id suggest Karelia to be finnish, a Hugnary expanded a bit (revise trianon) into romania and other stuff. The small are around Tessin (cieszyn), should actually be czech, and now come empires. I wonder what is the dejure empire set up. Id guess stuff like vanilla Hispania, Britannia and francia are as it is. However Yugoslavia might be a thing, just as could be Intermarum (Ukraine, Belarus, all the baltics, Poland, and i think thats it). Also duchy dejure set up would be appreciated.

If you want Silesia to be Polish than on the grounds of it being Polish now. Even if it is Polish now (duh) it had a solid German majority for centuries and only was under direct Polish control from the 10th to the 12th century (~1290 as the latest date you could argue).
If you mean Vilnius / Wilna with Vilno then no, I at least don't know that it is predominantly Polish. Afaik the Poles there mostly resettled to former German lands in the West after WWII, no?

Empires:
rWbMPOZ.jpg
 

Careful Plum

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Reading this thread got me thinking about how and whether a modern, party-based republic could be modelled in CK2.

Perhaps this could work: Make everything a (potential) Merchant Republic by linking it to a 1-province sea zone. Edit tech so it is never possible to build trade posts. The five families represent the parties (so everybody has five parties, unfortunately). Make prestige and gold gains much larger, so age is no longer an important factor in who gets elected. Every four years or so, fire an event where the current president (or whatever) abdicated to the current heir.

Problems:
- Is it possible to have merchant republic vassals of merchant republics, so there can be substates in federal republics? But even so, I doubt they can have the same families...
- Alternatively, federal republics are catholicism style religions with a college of cardinals (parliament) - or they have elections like in After the Ende (do these actually work?)
- Re-elections might be tricky - maybe only abdicating if the heir is of a different dynasty (=different family = different party)
- Is it possible to set a different heir by event? This would be kind of necessary for internal party politics...
 

cziken201

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How about making a new kingdom in the east of Poland? Then giving parts of it to belarus/ukraine and maknig it part of Poland empire?

EDIT: Remember, if ill try to make you feel that Poland must be way bigger, it is mostly my nationalistic nature taking place here. However it mgiht sometimes be right...
 
Last edited:

TheLunarwolf

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e_scandinavia needs more Karelian coastlands and Kola :D, e_britain needs more Ireland and at least a strong claim on e_India.... :rofl:

it could also be argued that e_france needs more Morocco and Algiers... :eek:
 

JonStryker

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e_scandinavia needs more Karelian coastlands and Kola :D, e_britain needs more Ireland and at least a strong claim on e_India.... :rofl:

it could also be argued that e_france needs more Morocco and Algiers... :eek:

The nations in place should not have claims on these lands right away. I can't imagine Queen Elizabeth or Cameron aiming to "re-conquer" Ireland. Northern Ireland joing Ireland. Unlikely but a distinct possibility if given enough time.
Similar with Finland: We could have a k_karelia that spans all of Greater Finland. k_karelia would be de jure russia. If you hold both k_finland and k_karelia you would be allowed to create Greater Finland i.e. e_finland which would instantly de jure switch k_karelia to e_finland.

Some kind of requirements that aren't just 1000 prestige (or 10000) prestige and a de jure change by event would work best imho. Maybe piety needs to be re-possessed as an imitation of the three buckets (admin points, mil points,...) you have in EU4. Or prestige. Or both. I am obviously only throwing around ideas here.
 

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For empires, and kingdoms, France is far too weak. Alsace and Lorraine should be French, and France should be one kingdom. Is it a WW1 mod, or a 2015 mod? Because the borders you give to France and Germany seem to be more accurate for the later. The French regions are duchies, not kingdoms.
 

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I really like the direction you are taking this mod. However, I think the Bloby de jure map could probably be change and broken up. Some of these suggestion have already been stated, however, I think a better explanation is in order.

1) Bust up k_spain into various smaller kingdoms. I fear that the Spanish peninsula will just become a place nobody looks at because it will constantly be divided between Portugal and Spain. Even if Catalunya breaks free, its de sure is too small to actually make a difference against Spain. I suggest you give d_aragon to Catalunya so if they do break free, the Catalans can actually resist Spain. I also suggest you create k_navarra between France and Spain. The basques have kept their language and culture under spain and have a high level of autonomy within Spain proper. This also helps bust up Spain.

2) Alsace-Lorraine goes to France. I understand this region has been disputed up until WWII, however, France as it stands just looks too weak. Preferably, there would be some way to have Germany and France constantly fight de jure wars over this region, perhaps by busting up the duchy into alsace and lorraine, with one de jure Germany, and one de jure France. But, I would prefer it under France, since France has held the land since 1945.

3)Bust up german poland. I actually like the de jure setup over here, however, I think Germany has to many de jure claims. I would do two things to the setup over here. One, I would divide Silesia into two duchies based around to treaty of Versailles borders. Upper Silesia would be de jure germany and Lower Silesia would be de jure Poland. Two, I would create a new kingdom out of East Prussia. It just looks weird to have germany claim land that lacks a direst border with their land. I would create a new kingdom and put it in the Baltic Empire group.

4)Kurdistan. Not many people have discussed the middle east yet, because of all the conflicts over there. However, the Kurds are a people without borders that occupy a significant amount of land. I would take some of eastern Turkey, a duchy from Iraq and Iran, and maybe a province from Syria and create k_kurdistan. this will help bust up Turkey, which you were complaining about.

5)This one is minor. I really don't like the Kingdom setup in Italy, because it looks to much like 1870. Instead I suggest a different layout. There would be 3-4 kingdoms, each based around the much more recent north-south economic spit in Italy. They would be k_sardinia-peidmont, k_padania, and k_sicily, which could be broken into k_sicily and k_naples. This first two are in the north. Sardinia-Piedmont occupy all of its current land, simple because I see no other way to stick Sardinia in a Kingdom. Padania would occupy all the north until Rome. The Naples/Sicily setup is a obvious division of the south.

6)Scandinavia. People have discussed the kingdom and empire setup here, so I offer a different way to break up the blobs. Create the k_skane that someone earlier suggested, because the people there have always been a mixture of Swedish and Danish. I would leave e_skandinavia intact, however I would also add the e_sweden titular empire if people want to forge the Empire of Gustavus Adolphus.

7)Change the Imperial Setup of the East. Currently Russia is just way to bloby, and looks poised to seize the East. What I suggest is a rather large change. First, k_belarus, and k_ukraine be moved under the polish empire, which would be renamed to poland-lithuania. This is because, from the pictures you posted, I appear poland is getting the short end of the stick, and this is to compensate for it. Poland-Lithuania would only be formable if you hold the lithuania title as well as 80% of the de sure, similar to Abyssinia from vanilla. Russia would be broken up according to the map posted earlier, and made a empire from day one. Note that I left crimea under russia, to reflect the current disputes in the region. This should help break up the blobs in the east.

8)Divide India. Similar to the Russian proposal, India would become a empire from day one. Each of its current government districts would become kingdom level, to help balance the region, and reflect the cultural divides present in the region. I haven't thought much about this one, so sorry if it lacks a good argument.

9) Idea, not suggestion. Perhaps turkey, bulagria and greece could become a single empire in the balkans, to reflect the various states there. Its name and flag could change with cultures and religions to reflect whoever rules the region. A greek might see the byzantine flag with a byzantine name, while a turk would get Turkish Empire flying a turkish flag. This one is just a idea.
 

Chris93

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5)This one is minor. I really don't like the Kingdom setup in Italy, because it looks to much like 1870. Instead I suggest a different layout. There would be 3-4 kingdoms, each based around the much more recent north-south economic spit in Italy. They would be k_sardinia-peidmont, k_padania, and k_sicily, which could be broken into k_sicily and k_naples. This first two are in the north. Sardinia-Piedmont occupy all of its current land, simple because I see no other way to stick Sardinia in a Kingdom. Padania would occupy all the north until Rome. The Naples/Sicily setup is a obvious division of the south.

Actually, if you want to be realistic, by basing it on italian real separatist movements, a de jure set up should look like this:

wV3Vkj1.png

Green = Padania
Grey = Italy
Red = South Italy/Two Sicilies

Even Veneto has strong separatist movements but that part of the map is already covered by "Padania de jure Kingdom"
Sardinia also has separatist movements, but it's too small to be a kingdom.
Source: I'm Italian.
 
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Oryxslayer

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Actually, if you want to be realistic, by basing it on italian real separatist movements, a de jure set up should look like this:

View attachment 123497

Green = Padania
Grey = Italy
Red = South Italy/Two Sicilies

Even Veneto has strong separatist movements but that part of the map is already covered by "Padania de jure Kingdom"
Sardinia also has separatist movements, but it's too small to be a kingdom.
Source: I'm Italian.

Thanks for the accurate map. I'm american so I only knew a bit about the north/south divide, and the padania/venitian independence movement. I suggest it simply because I really don't like the 1870 de jure map.
 

JonStryker

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Thanks to your lengthy post Oryxslayer!

1) Spain's duchies currently reflect this here: http://www.red2000.com/spain/images/r-map-en.gif
I can split the central Spanish kingdom up and assign some of the duchies to separate kingdoms. Andalusia, Catalonia + Aragon, Navarra, maybe Galicia

2) Having a region in two de jure areas would be best, yeah. Forming the German empire of old could require to take A+L off of France so it doesn't matter too much where it is initially. If it is part of France at least the Germans would want to attack the French if. If it is part of France de jure and de facto they'll just love each other. But the majority of people (two of which Frenchman) want it to be French so I most likely do that chance.

3) Splitting Silesia into two might be a good thing to do, you are right. I think I'd have to add a bunch of provinces to be able to properly show the border changes in Silesia after WWI. Only a small (but wealthy) piece of Silesia was ceded to Poland then. Germany also held East Prussia between WWI and WWII while the Polish corridor did cut it off. Taking East Prussia out of Prussia is like taking England out of the UK. The "East" part was only added later on, originally Prussia was East Prussia only and it expanded from there (and from Brandenburg).

4) Even if there never was an independent Kurdistan it could be on the map, yeah. They deserve a state of their own and probably will get it eventually. Iraq is weak and Syria is broken. Turkey and Iran will most likely not allow their pieces of it go independent, though.

7) Good idea! If e_russia exists from the start (which it really should). It should not be able to reclaim all that land right away. Either titular Russia or that large de jure Poland. Only problem I have is that Poland-Lith. never controlled all of Ukraine, right. Maybe Luhansk, Donetsk should be in a separate de jure kingdom ... hm

8) Dividing India is the natural thing to do. I just added it as people demanded it to be there. I also need to give out proper cultures there *shrug*

9) Flag changes are hard and buggy (I think). It would be a lot easier if they just used different titles. Then the greek empire could be Byzantine purple and the Turkish one green.


For empires, and kingdoms, France is far too weak. Alsace and Lorraine should be French, and France should be one kingdom. Is it a WW1 mod, or a 2015 mod? Because the borders you give to France and Germany seem to be more accurate for the later. The French regions are duchies, not kingdoms.

I thought about this a few hours now and all I can say is that your post makes me kinda angry. You're French and you want Alsace+Lorraine to be French, sure, of course. France is a huge thing, strong and yet you want it to be a kingdom (?). You ask whether this mod is set in WW1 or 2015 to criticise it (or have you just not read any posts in this threads bar the last one?) while the thread is called 2015 and I've posted screenshots like this.
Which are imho pretty damn accurate for 2015 (and there's newer screenshots that do not have those random independent counties or duchies).


Actually, if you want to be realistic, by basing it on italian real separatist movements, a de jure set up should look like this:

View attachment 123497

Green = Padania
Grey = Italy
Red = South Italy/Two Sicilies

Even Veneto has strong separatist movements but that part of the map is already covered by "Padania de jure Kingdom"
Sardinia also has separatist movements, but it's too small to be a kingdom.
Source: I'm Italian.

Looks okay to me. You can't have South Tyrol, though xD
The Irredentism has to end somewhere! (yours, mine is unlimited :p)

Oh and I remember that you are an Italian since you first showed up working on the MEP mod ;)

I hope you've given a strong claim for Crimea to Ukraine and for Kosovo to Serbia. :D

Claims wither away too quick. There needs to be something more permanent for Ukraine and Crimea. Serbia on the other hand has de jure claims on both Kosovaran counties. Which isn't all too perfect, either. There isn't that invisible force of NATO and co. that keep Serbia in line.
 
Last edited:

Crash301

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Why not make NATO a de-jure Empire, and actually existing? That way you can make the NATO forces on Kosovo, and there migth have some very interesting possibilities.

I think considering NATO is less an empire and more a defense treaty, it won't work. However, it did give me a new thought. What if in religions, instead of having actual religions, it could have allegiances or ideologies, like, NATO could be one, Eastern Bloc another, or maybe those can be types. Or religions could be ideologies like communism, socialism, market liberalism, etc. I haven't thought deeply about this so take this as you will.
 

JonStryker

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I think considering NATO is less an empire and more a defense treaty, it won't work. However, it did give me a new thought. What if in religions, instead of having actual religions, it could have allegiances or ideologies, like, NATO could be one, Eastern Bloc another, or maybe those can be types. Or religions could be ideologies like communism, socialism, market liberalism, etc. I haven't thought deeply about this so take this as you will.

Possible but tricky to do. Replacing one mechanic with a custom, "updated" one is dangerous. Just having regular religions around makes stuff a lot easier.
 

DJB9142

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I must say, this is the most intriguing and ambitious mod I have encountered for CKII. I know it's in its infancy, but I am hoping there will be solid work being done as often as possible for you guys to bring it into a real state of playability. Granted, I have not tried this first version of the mod, but I can tell there is so much to be done. If what I am imagining this mod would I do have a couple of questions.

1) Will this mod include playable nations in North and South America? I am not sure how it would include them, as the map would have to be greatly expanded and either have a custom map built for that part of the world.

2) Will the combat system and army dynamics be overhauled a little bit to account for how wars are fought in this day and age?
 

loup99

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I thought about this a few hours now and all I can say is that your post makes me kinda angry. You're French and you want Alsace+Lorraine to be French, sure, of course. France is a huge thing, strong and yet you want it to be a kingdom (?). You ask whether this mod is set in WW1 or 2015 to criticise it (or have you just not read any posts in this threads bar the last one?) while the thread is called 2015 and I've posted screenshots like this.
Which are imho pretty damn accurate for 2015 (and there's newer screenshots that do not have those random independent counties or duchies).
Sorry if I angered you :eek: and sounded unclear in that post, but I wondered if the dejure borders were for a 100 years back rather than if the actual mod was set in WW1, which would be nonsensical given the thread title and the posts here. Some mods base their dejure borders on old claims, and this could had been one of those, given your dejure screenshots of that area. Could you please give me one reason to have Alsace-Lorraine German, if that was not the case? Why do you consider it as German more than French? Because, honestly from how I see it atleast, even if this may offend you and I'm sorry if it does, today the overwhelming majority of the people in that area feel more French than German and internationally, it is considered as a part of France. And even in WW1, it was more French than German dejurewise.

Yes, I want it to be an unified dejure kingom. For the political setup, I'm fine with it being an empire and it being a dejure empire too. But what I suggest is to have France as a unified dejure kingdom on the map, because I fail to see the reasons behind having it divided in sub-kingdoms that represent nothing, given that duchies would represent the French regions. Or, could you please explain the policy with the dejure kingoms?
 
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