2 Question about Coalition Wars

[delpiero1234]

1) So it appears that it is now possible to demand any occupied province in a peace deal. I thought that in coalition wars it was only possible to demand provinces with cores or claims? I have occupied Nerves, which is neither a core nor o claim of mine but I can take Nerves in a peace deal.

Currently Denmark, Bosnia, England, Poland, Alsace, Burgundy, Baden, Austria, Hamburg, Meckelburg, Oldenburg, Pomerania, Ferrara, Mantua, Naples, The Papal State, Tuscany, Venice, Friesland, Utrecht and The Hansa are in a coalition against me (I took 4 provinces from Naples..)

Baden declares war on me. Burgundy, The Hansa, Alsace and Utrecht joined Baden. Not sure why the other coalition members did not join the war.

1. Why did only 4 countries join Baden in their punitive war against me? What determines how many countries join the punitive war?

2. Why can I take provinces that I are neither a core nor a claim of mine in a punitive war?

 

[Pellucid]

Because you're the defender?

 

[delpiero1234]

Because you're the defender?

So when I am the defender only 4 countries join the punitive war and I can demand provinces that are neither my cores nor claims? That's not too bad

 

[dstarsboy]

I was in your situation and not all coalition members joined against me. However, while that was war going on, a different country in the coalition declared war on me and almost everyone who didn't join the first one ended up joining that second coalition war.

So just because you have a coalition war against you with only a fraction of the members in it, does NOT mean you lucked out and you have no worries.

Perhaps the countries don't like the WL or are in debt at the time, whatever reason. Usually you get a few less coalition members joining in an offensive war... if it were a defensive war, where you attack a coalition member, that essentially guarantees that everyone jumps into the fray.

As for your demanding province question, if you win the coalition war, you can make peace terms with the War Leader just the same as any war. The main difference is that you cannot peace out other countries in the coalition individually. This makes the war a bit more difficult to win as the WL's allies are in it until the end.

 

[AurochsAway]

Countries you have a truce with shouldn't join punitive wars against you, but will join defensive wars against a coalition member.

 

[delpiero1234]

Countries you have a truce with shouldn't join punitive wars against you, but will join defensive wars against a coalition member.

Well do you really think that all these other countries that are in a coalition against me had a truce with me? They didn't have a truce with me. I really wonder what decides how many coalition members join an offensive punitive war.

 

[AurochsAway]

Well do you really think that all these other countries that are in a coalition against me had a truce with me? They didn't have a truce with me. I really wonder what decides how many coalition members join an offensive punitive war.

It happens occasionally. If the punitive war was declared by a very small country, and the leader switches to another county in the coalition, then for some reason other members aren't called in after that. No idea why. Is that what happened?

 

[delpiero1234]

Is that what happened?

Yes. Baden started the punitive war against me. Burgundy became the new war leader (also a coalition member) and called to war 3 more coalition members.

 

[delpiero1234]

Well Baden decides that it wants to get its ass kicked again and started a 2nd coalition war against me. I've attached some screenshot. Click the images to enlarge them.

So what's up with Baden? Why do they always start the coalition war against me and not somebody more powerful like England or Burgundy?
View attachment 102582

The coalition is clearly outnumbered (3:1). Why start a war you can't win?

View attachment 102583

The coalition against me is huge. Why do you only 4 countries join the war? Of course I prefer fighting a war I can win instead of half of Europe but it makes little sense that countries join a coalition. It also makes even less sense that countries like Denmark or England get upset with what I do in Italy.

View attachment 102584

 

[Conch]

Countries that have many loans will also not join the war. Just as in any regular war, I think.

 

[delpiero1234]

Countries that have many loans will also not join the war. Just as in any regular war, I think.

So all these countries are in debt? I highly doubt that considering how many countries are in a coalition against me and how few joined the war.

 

[Conch]

A single war can already lead to a country being in debt. Even Austria is in debt after 1-2 wars in the early stage of the game, and it is definitely one of the richer states in the HRE.

 

[delpiero1234]

A single war can already lead to a country being in debt. Even Austria is in debt after 1-2 wars in the early stage of the game, and it is definitely one of the richer states in the HRE.

I don't think this is the reason because the exactly same countries joined the 2nd punitive war that joined the first punitive war (The Hansa joined around 20 days after Baden declared war)

 

[AurochsAway]

Interesting, I wonder why the leader switch does this at all. Did Baden have higher relations with the states that joined, or did those states have the highest AE or anything like that? Any unifying factor that unites them and not those that didn't join before the leader switch? Perhaps Baden is irrelevant and it's Burgundy's alliances/relations that matter?

 

[delpiero1234]

Interesting, I wonder why the leader switch does this at all. Did Baden have higher relations with the states that joined, or did those states have the highest AE or anything like that? Any unifying factor that unites them and not those that didn't join before the leader switch? Perhaps Baden is irrelevant and it's Burgundy's alliances/relations that matter?

Burgundy did never call its own allies into the war. The countries that joined the war were part of the coalition.


A few years later Denmark declared a punitive war on me and roughly 3/4 of the coalition joined. I really would like to know what determines the number of coalition members that join an offensive war...

 

[beckermt]

I thought coalition members were forced to join wars, not given a choice. Has this changed?

 

[delpiero1234]

I thought coalition members were forced to join wars, not given a choice. Has this changed?

I thought so, too but did you take a look at the screenshots that I uploaded? Only a handful of nations joined Baden's punitive war and around 3/4 of the coalition joined Denmark's punitive war (I didn't upload screenshots for the Denmark punitive war).

 

[beckermt]

I thought so, too but did you take a look at the screenshots that I uploaded? Only a handful of nations joined Baden's punitive war and around 3/4 of the coalition joined Denmark's punitive war (I didn't upload screenshots for the Denmark punitive war).

I did. I'm wondering if this is then a bug or if offensive coalition wars function more like normal wars, but without requiring the diplomatic relation slot.

 

[delpiero1234]

I did. I'm wondering if this is then a bug or if offensive coalition wars function more like normal wars, but without requiring the diplomatic relation slot.

Well I just raised a bug report so that one of the developers can take a look at this issue. If it's not a bug then maybe they'll explain under which circumstances coalition members join an offensive punitive war.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

If coalition members are at war with another coalition member, they can't join an offensive *or* defensive coalition war. This is WAD; a nation can't be on the same side as and against another nation in wars, and being in a war with a coalition member then getting the CTA would make it so you're simultaneously ally/enemy.

There is no optional CTA on coalition members; if someone declares a coalition war and you're in the coalition, you get dragged in unless you can't be.

The other thing that might happen (but not based on what I read in OP) is if war leader changes to non-coalition member, which then will not CTA other members because it's not in the coalition...not sure on this one. I know if war leader shifts to non-member you can sign separate peace though.