• Crusader Kings III Available Now!

    The realm rejoices as Paradox Interactive announces the launch of Crusader Kings III, the latest entry in the publisher’s grand strategy role-playing game franchise. Advisors may now jockey for positions of influence and adversaries should save their schemes for another day, because on this day Crusader Kings III can be purchased on Steam, the Paradox Store, and other major online retailers.


    Real Strategy Requires Cunning

The Boss

Colonel
20 Badges
Mar 4, 2001
1.134
1
Visit site
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Divine Wind
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Lead and Gold
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Europa Universalis: Rome Collectors Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods

Here is an unexpected screenie of an unexpected turnout in an unexpected war:eek:

Difficult level Normal.
AI set on Aggressive.
Patch v1.01

To start it of, this game session was played and still is on a LAN with 2 players. Me as Italy and my friend playing as Portugal with the soul plan on attacking Spain in the civil war. Things started to heat up slowly. I launched an offensive into Switzerland thinking that I’ll probably have problems with their forts. No such thing tho as I rush attacked with 3 forces consisting of 12 infantry/mountain divisions and a few artillery brigades attached, with generals of course.

Meanwhile in Ethiopia I quickly took the capital and annexed them. Switzerland falls and I make use of their strong fortifications. The civil war broke out in Spain and Portugal with only his 2 infantry divisions attacked slowly and careful. Germany suddenly blitz’s France extreme hard in the meantime. In fact so heard that I didn’t even get the time to mobilise my army to attack France myself. Shortly after Paris falls making Vichy France appear. I of course declare war on them, easily taking their possessions but I ‘m unable to annex as they still have a large domain in Africa. My old friend Portugal is desperately fighting and is unable to take over Republican Spain. A while later Republican Spain declares themselves the owners of hole Spain. Reinforcements finally gets trained and two mountain divisions with artillery brigades attached comes into Portugal services, but my friend is fighting a loosing battle as he calls out in panic for my help. I now border Spain from my wars. I agree to help and shift forces to ready an attack, declaring war faster to try and get the Spanish AI to divert forces away from my friend.

Suddenly to my horror my friend yells that Republican Spain has just allied prior to my attack to Germany itself. In a logical move I hide under my desk in fear, lol. Forgetting all about my friends desperate situation I move everything I can up to my boarders with Germany but to late. Tanks followed up by infantry starts to role over my boarders and I lose territory fast. I counterattack with my motorised infantry and outdated tanks but with mixed results. As my infantry catches up I play defensive but soon find out those damn Germans are trying to split my country apart, ruining my supply lines. I try my best but they manage to split my country in 4 parts, basically leaving my armies supplyless and trapped in pockets. Meanwhile my airforce unlike theirs are bombing their infantry and tanks whenever possible, as I try hard to fight back, rebuilding my supply lines. At this time I’m yelling across the room to my friend to help me, but all I get is yells back with the words “I’m dying damit, I need the help” Seeing your empire split in tiny peaches is really a gruesome sight, especially when you know the German flag might be hanging up soon. The battle rages on and I managed, despite all odds to rebuild most of the supply lines, reinforcing my battered forces. At this time I begin to make concentrated attacks using the rest of my airforce, trying to trap them in pockets.

This strategy is what the Germany used on me, so I guess learning from the German attacks made my strategy change allot in game. Portugal is still alive and managed to recapture his territories in Portugal itself, but all lands in Spain is lost and he’s dug himself in and waiting desperate for reinforcements to arrive. My attacks are starting to have success as I managed to destroy large concentrations by trapping them and bombing before I attack simultaneous from different directions. As the time goes I restore most of the chaos the Germans inflected on me. At this moment in time, I decide to attack into Germany territory itself, but with great fear of the consequences as all my tanks and motorised infantry lies destroyed in my countryside. I only have infantry with artillery brigades and specialised mountain divisions with a modest airforce, but tiny compared to the Germans. As time goes I meet up with English bombers who is bombing Germany, but are having huge problems with their airforce. I knew it would be hard but I must try capturing their aircraft’s on ground to help England, and mostly to help my own airforce from being shot down while operating in enemy territory, infested with fighters.

Still I manage to push forward as I meet resistance, especially panzers and motorised infantry. At a point I finally split Germany in half with small pockets trapped but they still have plenty of men left, which they use to make an offensive in Italy again, forcing me to split my forces even more. My friend tried to make an attack in Spain but eventually retreats back to safe territory as more forces closes in. As the months go its now clear that the German War Machine has been hit hard and its only a matter of time before I react Berlin, which I do later but not easily as I lose but recapture it. While I’m wining the war with Germany, Republican Spain invades me with a small force taking a few lands. My infantry is fare away so I’m forced to respond, diverting my remaining airforce to attack them. As I secure Berlin and its surroundings, which was one hell of an accomplishment in it own, they keept trying to beat me away. I move my main forces towards Spain to finally help my friend. As I react their borders I launch 3 attacks, easily beating any resistance. Probably because their troops still lacks even the most basic rifles of WW2. Not much is needed before Portugal makes his attack. A few months after I make peace with Spain, returning everything back to pre war time. I only did this as my friend wanted Spain, which he did take later on as you can see.

Hope you find this AAR a good read;) As you can see on the picture, I liberated and attacked a bit more after the war with Spain, and Portugal took over Denmark, lol Danes conquering Danes. Anyway we are not finished with the game but I highly doubt it will go so crazy later on. Tho I hear my friend wishes the steel in Sweden;)

Btw this was my second time playing HOI. First time was with Spain where I got trashed by Vichy France, ouch. Last thing, I encountered a nasty bug as it seems every time I try making Germany a Puppet state it crashes but annexing works, tho then the game is over. Ill just continue to occupy them as I get 50% of their industry this way.
 
Last edited:

Syt

Holstein's Envoy in Vienna
132 Badges
Jan 26, 2001
6.712
36
  • 200k Club
  • 500k Club
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • Deus Vult
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Victoria 2
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Rome Gold
  • Prison Architect
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Premium edition
  • Surviving Mars: Digital Deluxe Edition
  • Mount & Blade: With Fire and Sword
  • BATTLETECH
  • Steel Division: Normandy 44 Deluxe Edition
  • Warlock 2: The Exiled
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • Supreme Ruler 2020
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Pride of Nations
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Shadowrun: Hong Kong
  • Shadowrun: Dragonfall
  • Supreme Ruler: Cold War
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall
Indeed a good read. :)

It would be an even better read if you would add in some paragraphs, because it is a bit straineous to read such a large block of text on the screen. :)
 

Syt

Holstein's Envoy in Vienna
132 Badges
Jan 26, 2001
6.712
36
  • 200k Club
  • 500k Club
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • Deus Vult
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Victoria 2
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Rome Gold
  • Prison Architect
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Premium edition
  • Surviving Mars: Digital Deluxe Edition
  • Mount & Blade: With Fire and Sword
  • BATTLETECH
  • Steel Division: Normandy 44 Deluxe Edition
  • Warlock 2: The Exiled
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • Supreme Ruler 2020
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Pride of Nations
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Shadowrun: Hong Kong
  • Shadowrun: Dragonfall
  • Supreme Ruler: Cold War
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall
Originally posted by The Boss
Thx Sytass. Just wrote is and I had to rush of to eat dinner. It's fixed now.
Ah, a lot better now. :)

Besides, we are still short on MP AARs. :)
 
Mar 4, 2001
200
0
Visit site
For a 56ker like myself who cant wait to get his DSL line in 8 months. I would pay to see a good 2 player AAR. One player USSR, the other germany. 5-6 posts long, both players perspectives. And lots of screenshots.
 

unmerged(9895)

Imfamous Warmonger
Jun 21, 2002
834
0
Great read, but if I were on the developing/beta team for HoI I would be hiding in shame after reading this. Might as well play Switerzland next time and take over the entire world, your friend could be Luxemburg and the AI would have no chance of beating your two unstoppable war machines. O yes, and don't forget, you could do all that while the allies sat by and did nothing because they were to worried about a "German threat" even though Germany would be occupied by your forces.
 

unmerged(11457)

Captain
Oct 29, 2002
326
0
dodhq.net
What was the difficulty level?
 

unmerged(12117)

Second Lieutenant
Nov 29, 2002
108
0
Visit site
Italian Strength

In 1936 the Italian army looks very powerful on paper, and with some smart technological focus those infantry divisions should be able to take you a long way if you exploit the advantage early in the game. The Italians had the curse of modernizing their military too early, so what was state of the art in the late 1930s was obsolete when the real war arrived in 1940 -- early war is the way to go with Italy.

There really should be a pop-up asking if you want to declare war against the laundry list of alliance partners that a country has.
 

The Boss

Colonel
20 Badges
Mar 4, 2001
1.134
1
Visit site
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Divine Wind
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Lead and Gold
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Europa Universalis: Rome Collectors Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
Originally posted by Ding Chavez
What was the difficulty level?
The difficult level was on Normal and with AI set on Aggressive. As SilentLawyer mentioned about Italy, I did just that. Concentrated hard on modernising my infantry divisions. I’m pretty certain in the war with Germany, I already had submachine guns discovered and of course modern WW2 rifles.
 

unmerged(12007)

Lt. General
Nov 27, 2002
1.638
0
Visit site
Originally posted by KrisKannon
Great read, but if I were on the developing/beta team for HoI I would be hiding in shame after reading this. Might as well play Switerzland next time and take over the entire world, your friend could be Luxemburg and the AI would have no chance of beating your two unstoppable war machines. O yes, and don't forget, you could do all that while the allies sat by and did nothing because they were to worried about a "German threat" even though Germany would be occupied by your forces.
I hope no one takes this personally.

I have alluded to fears, posted on other boards, about what the AARS would begin to look like after general release of the game in the Euro and NA markets.

This kind of AAR is bound to make one reconsider the investment in buying the game, if one is looking for anything approaching what the box and publicity says : "Historically Accurate Epic Gameplay".

Now, please don't take offense at what I am about to say. Please try to understand the perspective of the consumer here.

This type of AAR *does* make one wonder what the beta/dev team was doing. How could they not discover these kinds of weaknesses in advance? I saw a comment from one member of the beta team to the effect that an open beta would have been the "silliest" thing Paradox could have done. I, respectfully, disagree with this. An open beta would have revealed these types of weaknesses long in advance of a situation where a week after General Release we get AARS that have Italy conquering most of Western Europe, and, presumeably with more game time, most of Africa and possibly most of the Soviet Union.

In fairness, its concievable that the beta/dev team was doing everything they could to discover these kinds of weaknesses, but that something happened between the beta and general release versions that wasn't caught. Well, its caught now.

I strongly suggest that the concept of open beta be re-examined, or, at a minimum, the size of the test base be expanded and refactored for a core team of beta managers with a large team (100+) of beta players.
 

Mithel

General
3 Badges
Nov 29, 2002
1.725
0
www.mnstarfire.com
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • 500k Club
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
I'm not convinced the game model is "wrong" or "defective". From this report it sounds like a clever player was able to do all the right things and succeed. Which is good as it means the game does allow us to pursue non-historic approaches and enjoy success.

The writer does indicate that the AI made some good tactical efforts against him (splitting his forces creating a difficult supply situation).

There are a lot of details left out that we'd need to know in order to judge if the game was flawed based on this one report. When did this major conflict between Italy and Germany occur? If it's early (1937) and the German economy hasn't had a chance to be brought to bear and Germany is busy (weakenned) dealing with the allies then I can imagine an independent Italy might be able to take advantage of the situation.

- Mithel
 

unmerged(12007)

Lt. General
Nov 27, 2002
1.638
0
Visit site
Originally posted by Mithel
I'm not convinced the game model is "wrong" or "defective". From this report it sounds like a clever player was able to do all the right things and succeed. Which is good as it means the game does allow us to pursue non-historic approaches and enjoy success.

The writer does indicate that the AI made some good tactical efforts against him (splitting his forces creating a difficult supply situation).

There are a lot of details left out that we'd need to know in order to judge if the game was flawed based on this one report. When did this major conflict between Italy and Germany occur? If it's early (1937) and the German economy hasn't had a chance to be brought to bear and Germany is busy (weakenned) dealing with the allies then I can imagine an independent Italy might be able to take advantage of the situation.

- Mithel
I'm afraid I have to largely disagree with your assessment here.

At one point the FAQ for HoI said that non-historic approaches would be possible, ridiculous outcomes shouldn't be.

It is ridiculous outcome for Italy to defeat Germany AFTER Germany has taken France. Read the AAR, at the same time, this player also attacked and defeated Switzerland and Ethiopia, and that Portugal attacked and defeated a unified Spain.

Look, history is full of irrationality. Historic play that follows historic irrationality should have historic outcomes. Rational play that follows non-historic approaches should have reasonable outcomes. This result isn't historically reasonable by any stretch of the imagination, no matter how gamey or rational the play was.

But, that wasn't my question. My question was : was this type of thing brought out during beta, and if not, why not?
 

The Boss

Colonel
20 Badges
Mar 4, 2001
1.134
1
Visit site
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Divine Wind
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Lead and Gold
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Europa Universalis: Rome Collectors Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
I better add this so you guys can evaluate the AI a bit better from our AAR session.

Portugal’s plains for the war on Spain was as follows.

1:
Prepare a concentrated attack only when the Spanish civil war breaks out, and prevent both groups from forming a Unified Spain until they have both exhausted themselves enough for a easy take over.

This key objective was after several small engagements, having only attacked the Republican side a total failure and NOT accomplished at all, despite Italy providing a small advantage in infantry tech when things started to go wrong.

2:
Having failed his first objective and losing to Spain, it was now a plan to defend and wait for reinforcements before trying to attack again.

After training 2 mountain divisions with artillery brigades attached, he again attacks with the rest of his few infantry and militia units. The first few months, or should I say weeks was an overall success, but as the time progressed, Spain manages to retake what it had lost. In a genius manoeuvre as my friend says, let me explain. While his main force, consisting of his 2 mountain infantry and a regular infantry (1 militia joins the battle) fought a long but winning battle nonetheless at Burgos. The Spanish AI manages to encircle his fighting force when attacking and especially winning a key battle at Porto. Now out of supply and trapped, the battle quickly changes to the worse. My friend then decides to take a gamble and retreats to now occupied Porto, hoping to save his army. However before he reaches his destination, a Spanish infantry manages to reach it first, forcing a quick battle which ends with his main force decimated. Also note that around this time, Spain had attacked my undefended borders but was pushed back eventually as reinforcements came.


As you can see, Portugal never really stood a chance if I hadn’t intervened when my war with Germany was over. I’m positive that if Germany had crushed me or at least most of my army, Portugal would have lost all his main territory, leaving him only with his colonies and islands.
 

unmerged(11464)

Second Lieutenant
Oct 29, 2002
159
0
Visit site
Finally a multiplayer AAR!
Great job, maybe next time you can try playing as one of the Allied majors and your friend can play one of the Axis majors. Would be interesting to see if the outcome is at all close to what happend historically.
 

unmerged(12007)

Lt. General
Nov 27, 2002
1.638
0
Visit site
Originally posted by squid
Finally a multiplayer AAR!
Great job, maybe next time you can try playing as one of the Allied majors and your friend can play one of the Axis majors. Would be interesting to see if the outcome is at all close to what happend historically.
I think you'll have to wait for the next patch for this hope to be realized. At least.
 

unmerged(9895)

Imfamous Warmonger
Jun 21, 2002
834
0
Originally posted by The Boss
I better add this so you guys can evaluate the AI a bit better from our AAR session.

Portugal’s plains for the war on Spain was as follows.

1:
Prepare a concentrated attack only when the Spanish civil war breaks out, and prevent both groups from forming a Unified Spain until they have both exhausted themselves enough for a easy take over.

This key objective was after several small engagements, having only attacked the Republican side a total failure and NOT accomplished at all, despite Italy providing a small advantage in infantry tech when things started to go wrong.

2:
Having failed his first objective and losing to Spain, it was now a plan to defend and wait for reinforcements before trying to attack again.

After training 2 mountain divisions with artillery brigades attached, he again attacks with the rest of his few infantry and militia units. The first few months, or should I say weeks was an overall success, but as the time progressed, Spain manages to retake what it had lost. In a genius manoeuvre as my friend says, let me explain. While his main force, consisting of his 2 mountain infantry and a regular infantry (1 militia joins the battle) fought a long but winning battle nonetheless at Burgos. The Spanish AI manages to encircle his fighting force when attacking and especially winning a key battle at Porto. Now out of supply and trapped, the battle quickly changes to the worse. My friend then decides to take a gamble and retreats to now occupied Porto, hoping to save his army. However before he reaches his destination, a Spanish infantry manages to reach it first, forcing a quick battle which ends with his main force decimated. Also note that around this time, Spain had attacked my undefended borders but was pushed back eventually as reinforcements came.


As you can see, Portugal never really stood a chance if I hadn’t intervened when my war with Germany was over. I’m positive that if Germany had crushed me or at least most of my army, Portugal would have lost all his main territory, leaving him only with his colonies and islands.

very true, BUT, the whole point to it is that Germany SHOULD of crushed you. Germany SHOULD of came storming through your defences and under developed armies like an unstoppable tidal wave. Germany SHOULD of beat your divisions and then finished off the job. Personally, IF this would of been a multiplayer game with 4 players (Italy, Portugal, Spain, and Germany being the players nations ) the outcome would of been a lot different. Untill the AI is able to finish off the job then I will stay unconvinced that it is better than the EU AI. I will use a car for a metaphor for the AI here (i love metaphors) . The EU AI would be an old, banged-up, dirty car that barely gets you where your going. Now, the HoI AI is that same car with a good washing and a good waxing. BUT, in the end, it still has the same dents, it still has the same rust, and it still barely gets you where your going. Until Paradox can remove the dents and the rust from its AI there is really nothing exciting about playing the game single player.
 

Estonianzulu

Wizzaard
86 Badges
Sep 2, 2001
2.591
1
Visit site
  • War of the Roses
  • March of the Eagles
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Sengoku
  • Ship Simulator Extremes
  • Sword of the Stars
  • Sword of the Stars II
  • Teleglitch: Die More Edition
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Majesty 2 Collection
  • 500k Club
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Magicka 2
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Deus Vult
  • Diplomacy
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Galactic Assault
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Impire
  • King Arthur II
  • Knights of Pen and Paper +1 Edition
  • The Kings Crusade
Germany SHOULD of crushed you. Germany SHOULD of came storming through your defences and under developed armies like an unstoppable tidal wave.
Why?

He stated that his armies were not underdeveloped, and that he, as Italy, had a good supply of men. Germany had only been conscripting troops for one year, and had not fully remilitarized.

The German AI is probobly looking towards the East-West enemies, and not Italy. No one ever believed Hitler would take over all of Continental Europe, but he did.

I think that it was a combination of Luck, Skill and timing that did this. If you dont like how this game turned out, dont play it like this one. I for example, will try to play pseudo-historically (but I do want to try to change things of course) in Europe, outside of europe, everything goes.
 

unmerged(12007)

Lt. General
Nov 27, 2002
1.638
0
Visit site
Look folks, this AAR, with Italy conquering France, Germany, Ethiopia, Yugoslavia, all before 1941, this AAR is mild in comparison to some I've seen.

I've seen Brazil roll over the United States for chrissake.

Stop being apologists and start trying to help fix the problem with serious threads about what is wrong with the AI, and the grossly distorted results we've seen. Pretending there isn't a problem doesn't help. Pretending that these kinds of results are historically reasonable, which they aren't, doesn't help either.
 

unmerged(12007)

Lt. General
Nov 27, 2002
1.638
0
Visit site
Originally posted by Estonianzulu
Why?

The German AI is probobly looking towards the East-West enemies, and not Italy. No one ever believed Hitler would take over all of Continental Europe, but he did.

I think that it was a combination of Luck, Skill and timing that did this. If you dont like how this game turned out, dont play it like this one. I for example, will try to play pseudo-historically (but I do want to try to change things of course) in Europe, outside of europe, everything goes.
I think it was bad AI that did this.

Having the benefit of thousands of historical studies now, we in the 21st Century have pretty good information on what was and was not historically feasible. We also have good information on what people thought back then was possible; though what they thought of capabilities at the time is not really relevant now.

Lets focus on getting to "Historically Accurate Epic Gameplay", like it says on the box, and not "Wildly Historically Inaccurate Gameplay That Fits Into Historical Models Only if You Artificially Constrain Yourself to do Really Stupid Things".