2 new factory lines for producing resources, Sythetic Rubber, Synthetic Oil

[Bluestreak2k5]

In HOI3 we converted Energy into Oil even if you were a minor, yet only 3 countries that I know of really built synthetic rubber facilities, and only Germany built synthetic oil factories.

To better represent this problem I think it would be best if this were added as Factory lines the way we produce equipment so that minors and other nations simply aren't just getting free resources.

Add in 2 Techs:
1 for Synthetic Oil creation
a. First tech unlockable in 1920, with several upgrades through 1950
1 for Synthetic Rubber creation
a. First Tech unlockable in 1940 with a few upgrades through 1950.

Synthetic Oil factories would create Oil from nothing (Coal is not represented in the game).

Synthetic Rubber Factories would create Rubber from oil at some ratio (like 2 oil input = 1 rubber).

The factories would work the way other factories work, except they could get to 100% efficiency very quickly as they are producing several units each per week.

This would force these countries to either focus on capturing oil regions (Japan capturing south Asia, Germany/Italy Capturing Middle East) or to devote some of your precious industry to creating these resources as the countries did in real life.

Since factories represent everything that is abstracted about the economy, Germany and Italy would not need to devote the resources to develop these factories if they capture and hold the middle east, allowing more manpower and investment to war production. It also means that the UK would need to spend considerable more amount of resources defending South Asia and the Middle East, otherwise they will need to develop these technologies and devote industry to them.

 

[Dalwin]

I have been thinking exactly the same for some time now. This seems like the only reasonable way to handle the conversion process, and I think it is important to have the conversion process represented.

I am picturing these as probably being from the civilian factory pool rather than the military one.

 

[D Inqu]

I

Synthetic Oil factories would create Oil from nothing (Coal is not represented in the game).

Synthetic Rubber Factories would create Rubber from oil at some ratio (like 2 oil input = 1 rubber).

Ehm, coal is in the game, as "energy".

 

[Gamer_1745]

Japan built synthetic oil factories. Not nearly as many as Germany and I don't know their production volume.

 

[Bluestreak2k5]

Ehm, coal is in the game, as "energy".

Energy is not in HOI4, Energy is in HOI3.

Thus Oil is produced from nothing.

 

[Bluestreak2k5]

I have been thinking exactly the same for some time now. This seems like the only reasonable way to handle the conversion process, and I think it is important to have the conversion process represented.

I am picturing these as probably being from the civilian factory pool rather than the military one.

Civilian would make sense, but most importantly if you want to expand more you have to build more industry, which takes civilian to build. If during Barbarssa a German player needs more Oil they cannot simply build more factories. They either sacrifice production (which probably isn't good versus USSR) or build more (which takes time) This ensures that the player needs to develop a strategy of how to deal with the situation. It also makes the Middle East and South Asia zones much more important.

 

[Porkman]

This is a good idea that was implemented in AOD.

As such, it will not be in HOI 4.

 

[Dalwin]

Civilian would make sense, but most importantly if you want to expand more you have to build more industry, which takes civilian to build. If during Barbarssa a German player needs more Oil they cannot simply build more factories. They either sacrifice production (which probably isn't good versus USSR) or build more (which takes time) This ensures that the player needs to develop a strategy of how to deal with the situation. It also makes the Middle East and South Asia zones much more important.

Yes, that balance between expanding production and dealing with long term fuel needs is exactly why I think the civilian factories make sense for this. To me it seems both logical and provides meaningful strategic decisions.

 

[1alexey]

Synthetic Rubber should be much earlier tech, USSR had first running synthetic rubber factory in 1932.

 

[plasticpanzers]

One of Japan's ministers of industry (an important one whos name i cannot remember) told Prince Koyne that Japan could transistion
to synthetic fuel if the effort was spend from military funds. You can guess how far that got....

US did need to adjust to more synthetic rubber but did obtain rubber from S. America which means keeping on good trading terms
with them.

The major problem was quinine (for malaria) which Japan had a virtual monopoly during the war.

 

[Ilhador]

Energy is not in HOI4, Energy is in HOI3.

Thus Oil is produced from nothing.

They took energy out from the game?

 

[Big Nev]

One of Japan's ministers of industry (an important one whos name i cannot remember) told Prince Koyne that Japan could transistion
to synthetic fuel if the effort was spend from military funds. You can guess how far that got....

US did need to adjust to more synthetic rubber but did obtain rubber from S. America which means keeping on good trading terms
with them.

The major problem was quinine (for malaria) which Japan had a virtual monopoly during the war.

Not really a problem as ICI (in Teesside) was producing Paludrine in large quantities from the early 1940s.

Britain (and therefore The Allies) did not really need cinchona although this did nothing to reduce the popularity of a gin & tonic when "in warmer climes".


But I do like the idea of having to build synthetic (coal-to-oil) plants & synthetic rubber plants if your country has the tech's & needs them rather than getting the Energy to Oil as a freebe for everyone.



Warmer than the UK! Are you shitting me?

 

[plasticpanzers]

The US used Atabrine which was wildly unpopular with troops. That and Quinine with rest. Problem not only in Pacific
but North Africa and very severe in Sicily/Salerno.

 

[Gamer_1745]

They took energy out from the game?

I am not sure about that. Producing different things don't require different amounts of energy (coal). Factories my require a constant amount of energy no mater what they are using so that isn't displayed as a cost to produce things.

 

[plasticpanzers]

If no oil where does 'fuel' come for ships, planes, and tanks??? Armadillo milking?

 

[Vonboe]

If no oil where does 'fuel' come for ships, planes, and tanks??? Armadillo milking?

?? There is oil in the game, check out that big black oil drop in every production screenshot

 

[plasticpanzers]

My bad. Energy is out? What will we do? Armadillo Milking? :rofl:

 

[Dalwin]

My bad. Energy is out? What will we do? Armadillo Milking? :rofl:

Even if they totally removed energy what difference does that make in a practical sense? Have you ever played a game as any country where you did not have enough of an energy stockpile to last for years? The previous system was so imbalanced in that regard that the new system (inspite of some abstractions) is light years ahead.

I didn't see a lot of folks complaining in previous versions that IC took a standard amount of resource input regardless of what you are making. Supplies/infantry/battleships all required exactly the same inputs. Anything they do in HOI4 is a step forward from that particular simplification.

 

[Bluestreak2k5]

Yes I agree with them removing energy from the game, I don't really know of any countries that faced Energy shortages besides a "strategic bombing" purpose. Strategic bombing of power plants can affect multiple production plants, but that becomes a more complicated problem. The only reason for coal to be in the game would be for synthetic oil, which was only used by an extremely small amount of the countries that it's not worth it.

It gets rid of one of Germany's biggest trading items though, as they traded coal to many countries in exchange for resources... but overall I think energy and coal gone simplify things. Again this leads to Synthetic oil from NOTHING, but I'm willing to live with that.

 

[DocDesastro]

Coal is needed for making steel from ore. This ought to be its main purpose. Steel is a refined material, not a classic resource. Removing coal and producing steel instantly seems very wrong to me. No dumbing down here please.
If we had Iron Ore and Coal and smeltries in the provinces limiting the amount of ore being processed as we might have refineries for oil, we had a reason for Steel production. And those assets can be strategically bombed. This would make things more complicated but on the other hand offers new strategies. Embargo countries, sink their ships ferrying resources, bomb the smeltries. Where to build smeltries and refineries? How to protect them?
I would like that.