[2.6.1.1 SKBW] Enemies with same CB are friendly at each other?

[Ben84]

PART I:
Ironman with achievments
Mods: nothing
DLC: All except Sunset Invasion

Startdate: 769
Ruler: chief of sorbia/Brandenburg

Scenario: Nearly at the same time chief of bohemia, chief of silesia, chief of orbitia declared war at me with same CB: conquest.(EDIT: subjugation) All three parties didn't have had NAPs or confederations with each other.
But they weren't hostile at each other and were camping in same province.

In former versions they were hostile.
Tried this game 7 times. 3 times my character died within a year due to cancer and pneumatic plague.
(And yes, everytime I got a doctor and closed the doors and set plague-setting to 'historic' before starting the game)

Also tried to vassalize to Charlemagne. Worked only for some month,cause of his bad opinion.
Cause I didn't get the decession in intrigue-tab "convert to liege's religion" anymore
Also I didn't get the event that a priest is coming to my province.


PART II:
Ironman with achievments
Mods: nothing
DLC: All except Sunset Invasion

Startdate: 769
Ruler: count of Nassau
Father: count of Palatinate/Pfalz
Direct liege: Duke of franconia/Franken
King: Charlemagne/ Karl der Große

Scenario: Can't get a confederation with my own father (opinion: +75) cause of political reservations. ò.Ó
Father started a rebellion, aim: become duke of franconia
I didn't get the option to join his rebellion -.- So I did nothing and watched this senseless action.
Now it's getting weird: Duke of franconia asked me to be commander, I accepted.
Father died in a battle, maybe through my sword, i don't know. ^^

But know, the rebellion didn't end up with the leaders dead. Instead my 6 year old first born son siiting in my own castle inherited the leadership of the rebellion. Recessive succession with rebellion leadership?

The duke of franconia finally defeated the rebellion and imprionsed my son.
And I didn't get the option to ransom him


I love this game so much and the new content of reaper's due is really great and gets us deeper in roleplaying, but for now there are to many broken and weird mechanics. It's a pity cause we want to start a new LP on our Youtube channel were I already made a little lovely teaser. Hope the mechanics gets fixed soon.
Kind regards Lord Bento

 

[Dracko81]

The first one is working as it has always worked. Only some wars for targets will make different parties hostile. Conquest is not one of them.

The second is pretty much your fault for not joining his faction. You can't call allies into faction wars if you wanted to support him, you should have supported his faction attempt. Since the faction was a claim war - which do not end on succession - the next available heir took his place. Since you were active within the war, you can't inherit. Your son was next in line and he inherited.

While it might seem harsh, there doesn't really seem to be any bugs here - except...

Tried this game 7 times. 3 times my character died within a year due to cancer and pneumatic plague.
(And yes, everytime I got a doctor and closed the doors and set plague-setting to 'historic' before starting the game)

If you are getting the plague active with historic settings in 800 AD that might be a bug. But I suspect this issue is a result of resigning and starting a new game. Can you attach a savegame where the plague is active with a historical setting.

 

[Ben84]

Thanks for your reply Dracko81.

Mhm, I thought in former versions they were hostile with conquest CB, which makes sense in my opinion.
Cause it's a race who's first.

Ok, the second scenario I agree with you. I totally forgot the faction thing. Was my fault,sorry.
But many thanks to you for explaining the succession thing

I actually don't have a save, and yes I exit to menu and start a new game, do I have to restart to whole game cause of checksum things?
Will give it a new try.

But whats up with the missing decession in intrigue-tab ? "convert to liege's religion" or with the missing buy out option for my son?

 

[Dracko81]

But whats up with the missing decession in intrigue-tab ? "convert to liege's religion" or with the missing buy out option for my son?

Decision was likely missing because of traits - probably zealous. While the Son can't be ransomed since he is landed, only he can pay for ransom.

 

[Ben84]

Yes, Charlemange is zealous, but not my character and I'am really sure that I got this decision in former versions. Cause I played a lot as chief of sorbia.
I always conquered Dymin first and than vassalize to Charlemange and convert to his religion afterwards and bring my sheeps into dry.
Then it's a bug now. Or the mechanic is broken, cause he is zealous but not me.

But my son hasn't landed. Cause I inherited all titles from my father e.g. province of Palatinate.
Or does 'landed' also mean the rebellion leadership?

 

[Dracko81]

Yes, Charlemange is zealous, but not my character and I'am really sure that I got this decision in former versions. Cause I played a lot as chief of sorbia.
I always conquered Dymin first and than vassalize to Charlemange and convert to his religion afterwards and bring my sheeps into dry.
Then it's a bug now. Or the mechanic is broken, cause he is zealous but not me.

    potential = {
       ai = no
       is_playable = yes
       liege = {
         NOT = { character = ROOT }
         NOT = { religion = ROOT }
         religion_group = ROOT
       }
       controls_religion = no
     }

That might have been changed to stop people from doing exactly what you are suggesting. Since you could swear fealty as a kingdom and switch to the religion of an empire. Creating work a slight exploit. You still however have the option of marrying a Catholic and converting.

But my son hasn't landed. Cause I inherited all titles from my father e.g. province of Palatinate.
Or does 'landed' also mean the rebellion leadership?

Wait I'm confused now. Is the war still going? How did he inherit the rebellion and not any land, that is wrong. Share the savegame and I will look at it a little more closely.

Mhm, I thought in former versions they were hostile with conquest CB, which makes sense in my opinion.

So I fired up the game and done some testing and conquests are hostile to each other. However there is an issue with your story. Bohemia, Silesia and Orbitia are all slavic, which means they can't declare conquest wars on you, while you are slavic. I ran numerous concurrent wars over northern Europe and the only way you could of had all 3 at war with you is if you converted or they declared a Subjugation and 2 tributary wars.

Conquests are still hostile in 2.6.1.1 to each other.

 

[Ben84]

That might have been changed to stop people from doing exactly what you are suggesting. Since you could swear fealty as a kingdom and switch to the religion of an empire. Creating work a slight exploit. You still however have the option of marrying a Catholic and converting.

I'am not really sure, if I can convert to the religion of my wife. Only have had the option to force her to convert to my religion.
But I will give it a try in a new Sorbia Game Part 189 now and will inform you ^^
I don't understand why they changed this.

Wait I'm confused now. Is the war still going? How did he inherit the rebellion and not any land, that is wrong. Share the savegame and I will look at it a little more closely.

No, he hasn't had any land or title. After my fathers dead, I inherited everything, cause I was his heir. My son only inherited my fathers leadership of the rebellion but without any land.
And this is really weird. My son then was defeated by my duke and the rebellion ended. But I didn't got the option to buy my son out. I attach the savegame of this called Nassau.

So I fired up the game and done some testing and conquests are hostile to each other. However there is an issue with your story. Bohemia, Silesia and Orbitia are all slavic, which means they can't declare conquest wars on you, while you are slavic. I ran numerous concurrent wars over northern Europe and the only way you could of had all 3 at war with you is if you converted or they declared a Subjugation and 2 tributary wars.

Conquests are still hostile in 2.6.1.1 to each other.

Not in my game. And yes they are slavic like me and they have the option of conquest, cause this rulers have this option once in a life time
And I only can conquest Dymin cause the CB is limited per character.
However, Bohemia was first with this CB,few minutes later Silesia was next with same CB and last but not least, Orbitia was the thrid party with this CB.
And all three armies met in sorbia, but weren't hostile. But Bohemia was first in this provence and got the warscore for this siege.


Like I said, I will start a new game with sorbia now and report.
And.....many thanks for your help! You're really welcome =)

 

[Dracko81]

Not in my game. And yes they are slavic like me and they have the option of conquest, cause this rulers have this option once in a life time
And I only can conquest Dymin cause the CB is limited per character.
However, Bohemia was first with this CB,few minutes later Silesia was next with same CB and last but not least, Orbitia was the thrid party with this CB.
And all three armies met in sorbia, but weren't hostile. But Bohemia was first in this provence and got the warscore for this siege.

Same religion can not declare conquests on each other. They can however declare Subjugations.

If a realm has a subjugation war against them, no other realm can declare one on them.

If a realm has a tributary war against them, another realm can not declare a tributary war on them.

Only external religions can declare conquests, which are still not hostile to the other 2 wars.

None of those wars will be hostile to each other. I can't replicate the situation you described above as it isn't possible. If this is possible in your game, you should ensure mods are turned off or reinstall the game. It is likely there is a corrupt file if that is occurring.

No, he hasn't had any land or title. After my fathers dead, I inherited everything, cause I was his heir. My son only inherited my fathers leadership of the rebellion but without any land.
And this is really weird. My son then was defeated by my duke and the rebellion ended. But I didn't got the option to buy my son out. I attach the savegame of this called Nassau.

With that savegame your son is in your court. There isn't really a lot to work off here unfortunately.

 

[Ben84]

I meant subjugation ,sorry english isn't my native language.
As I described before, they all declared war at me with this CB (subjugation) and weren't hostile!

If a realm has a subjugation war against them, no other realm can declare one on them

But exactly this happend to me :/

With that savegame your son is in your court. There isn't really a lot to work off here unfortunately.

This is a save after this weird story happend, didn't know you need a just-in-time save,sorry. Thought there is a history log in the save or something like this.

But here is another thing:

Two commanders have the icon that says they leading troops, but they don't. Just me and one other commander are leading troops, not four commanders like the little icons in the portraits shown.

And your hint to marry a catholic wife didn't work for me cause the malus of other religion is to high. To send a present doesn't change anything here.

I attach the actual savegame of Sorbia where I just subjugate Dymin.

 

[Dracko81]

But exactly this happend to me :/

If that is happening then the AI is circumventing the rules and you should provide a savegame showing this.

Two commanders have the icon that says they leading troops, but they don't. Just me and one other commander are leading troops, not four commanders like the little icons in the portraits shown.

This is because they are leading the attachment of troops. If you click the > arrow on the right of the troop window it will show you the individual armies and their sub commanders.

And your hint to marry a catholic wife didn't work for me cause the malus of other religion is to high. To send a present doesn't change anything here.

Your a pagan, go raid someone.

 

[Aardvark Bellay]

The first one is working as it has always worked. Only some wars for targets will make different parties hostile. Conquest is not one of them.

Not true if the conquest CB is for the same province. Just checked in 2.4.5, 2.5.6 and current version.
Declared conquest CBs on Znojmo as Bohemia and as Moravia. Both became hostile to each other.

 

[Dracko81]

Not true if the conquest CB is for the same province. Just checked in 2.4.5, 2.5.6 and current version.
Declared conquest CBs on Znojmo as Bohemia and as Moravia. Both became hostile to each other.

And if you read the whole thread you would see I corrected myself.

 

[Aardvark Bellay]

And if you read the whole thread you would see I corrected myself.

Read the whole thread but missed the part in post #6, sorry.

 

[Ben84]

Your a pagan, go raid someone.

Sounds easier said than done with sorbia ^^

Ok, now I get it with the sub commanders. Thanks. Seems totally new for me. Can't remeber there were subs.

And I checked this 'Converting to religion' issue. And yes, both the person who wants to convert and the persons religion you want to convert to mustn't have the zealous trait.
So they changed it and I don't like it -.-

But in this savegame,I'am lucky, cause my wife converted to catholicism and I get the option to convert to hers religion. Now I just need to wait until Charlemange is coming.
Anyhow I don't like it, cause this was only luck right now.

But this is an issue,isn't it?

I have a de-jure claim on Altmark.

But can't declare war on this claim, cause CB is missing ?

But otherwise the claim isn't shown up in the characters window:

 

[Aardvark Bellay]

But this is an issue,isn't it?
I have a de-jure claim on Altmark.
But can't declare war on this claim, cause CB is missing ?

Yup. Its seems Dejure claims can't currently be pressed as a vassal and i saw nothing in the patch log suggesting this to be working as desgned.

 

[Ben84]

Ironman with achievments (2.6.1.1 SKBW)
Mods: nothing
DLC: All except Sunset Invasion

Startdate: 769
Ruler: chief of sorbia/Brandenburg
Direct liege: chief/king of saxony

Scenario: King Charles declared war with CB: claim of/on/to saxony, few minutes later Bohemia declared war with CB: subjugation.
Bavaria fights alongside Kings Charles and their troops met bohemias troops in Anhalt and weren't hostile , is that right?

Furthermore, I can't call tributary Pruthenia to just one of the wars. Tooltip said there has to be a war, which I can call him to !?

Savegame attached.

Kind regards.
Ben

 

[Dracko81]

Bavaria fights alongside Kings Charles and their troops met bohemias troops in Anhalt and weren't hostile , is that right?

Yep, there's no issue here. These wars shouldn't be hostile to each other.

 

[Ben84]

These wars shouldn't be hostile to each other.

Chancellor of Bohemia asks chief of Bohemia:
Mylord, King Charles and his troops also try to conquer Saxony.
How should we react, when meeting their army?
Chief of Bohemia:
Stay friendly and wish them a nice and low-loss siege.


--> Sorry, this makes absolutly no sense. They nearly have the same aim. King Charles getting the 'king of saxony'-title on top.
Meanwhile the chief of bohemia will crush the hierachy within saxony, cause his actual title is a bit lower than the 'chief of saxsony'-title.