[2.5] and Threat workaround
- Thread starter grigorii
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Yup, that is railroading, that we both don't like. William should have a pretty good chance, but that is all.
The player should have one as well playing as the anglo saxons and that is perfectly historical in this case.
When people say historial they usually mean historical as in plausible and of course inside of a game concept.
In short coming back to the reason/source in post #5 for this argument, changing borders and history is what is part of the game
and can still be historical (plausible) and it is not an equivalent to an (rather in general) implausible game mechanic.
Yes, we are basically in agreement regarding what i quoted in this post.
We are still in disagreement about what "historical" implies it seems ..., but i'm not sure.
Can't read your mind.
Well...i suppose it's all good now.
Cheers
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Historically speaking, kingdoms weren't small because kingdoms banded together across Eurasia to stop them--they were usually small because feudalism is a very unstable and decentralized mode of governing, and a King could rarely exert meaningful control outside the borders of the lands he personally held. That's the annoying thing about coalitions--anti-blobbing measures should focus on interior threats, not exterior threats. Vassal limits were a realistic anti-blobbing measure, for example: coalitions aren't.
Plus, they just aren't fun. Coalitions don't really make the game harder, they just make you wait a lot.
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If you want to achieve SPQR get used to be on 100% threat since the beginning. Simply there is not enough time to wait for threat decay. I did it on this patch and I finished just when mongols arrived. This achievement is a bit tricky. You need Northumberland duchy (no roman reconquest CB no wonder why) and to control every holding of every county needed that means no holy orders that are not your vassals and no muslim orders.
I changed inheritance laws of the empire to gavelkind and primogeniture to the kingdom of greece because this way you can have a demesne of 15/16 holdings with stewardship education enough to have your vassals relaxed. The first thing that I did was to abolish the council and to revoke every county of the duchies of Nikaea, Adrianopolis, Thesalonika and Athens until I got my demesne limit. Then I destroyed the duchies (to avoid too many held duchies penalty, you can only have two). I converted myself (later) to catholicism and vassalized the pope through antipapacy. Just conquer a catholic county, change your capital, convert to catholicism and change the capital again to Constantinople. If Charlemagne creates the Empire of Francia your pope can grant you the invasion of the empire for 1000 piety because he is larger than you in the beginning.
The best way to conquer the lombard kingdom is through a clamaint. As soon as one is available give him a county, grab the kingdom, then excommunicate the clamaint (because he is a despot and this is problems on the horizon) and revoke the despot title and grant it to someone else as viceroyal. The best part of my strategy was being catholic with a vassalized pope. If you are orthodox most of your vassals will have a different religious head so this trick won't work. If a vassal turn rebellious you can excommunicate and imprison him without tyranny. Take in mind that a rebellion of 15 vassals kings can be dangerous so it's good to have a tool to stop it before it happen.
Having the pope as vassal is very useful to revoke ducal duchies at the cost of 100 piety. Viceroyal titles are useful to keep your vassals happy and feudal rulers rebellious. So this is another reason. I mean, catholicism is the way to go.
I changed inheritance laws of the empire to gavelkind and primogeniture to the kingdom of greece because this way you can have a demesne of 15/16 holdings with stewardship education enough to have your vassals relaxed. The first thing that I did was to abolish the council and to revoke every county of the duchies of Nikaea, Adrianopolis, Thesalonika and Athens until I got my demesne limit. Then I destroyed the duchies (to avoid too many held duchies penalty, you can only have two). I converted myself (later) to catholicism and vassalized the pope through antipapacy. Just conquer a catholic county, change your capital, convert to catholicism and change the capital again to Constantinople. If Charlemagne creates the Empire of Francia your pope can grant you the invasion of the empire for 1000 piety because he is larger than you in the beginning.
The best way to conquer the lombard kingdom is through a clamaint. As soon as one is available give him a county, grab the kingdom, then excommunicate the clamaint (because he is a despot and this is problems on the horizon) and revoke the despot title and grant it to someone else as viceroyal. The best part of my strategy was being catholic with a vassalized pope. If you are orthodox most of your vassals will have a different religious head so this trick won't work. If a vassal turn rebellious you can excommunicate and imprison him without tyranny. Take in mind that a rebellion of 15 vassals kings can be dangerous so it's good to have a tool to stop it before it happen.
Having the pope as vassal is very useful to revoke ducal duchies at the cost of 100 piety. Viceroyal titles are useful to keep your vassals happy and feudal rulers rebellious. So this is another reason. I mean, catholicism is the way to go.
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As a mechanic, threat doesn't prevent the AI from forming big blobs, because they do so slowly and don't care about threat going down slowly; also, AI independance factions rarely if ever win wars against their liege. SO basically, if threat's purpose was to stop the AI from blobbing, it fails.
As for the player, he is affected in that looking the months pass by is not fun at all. So he has to fight huge ass wars every time, or wait.
Huge wars EVERY time are just as fun as waiting for threat to come down.
EU4 agressive expansion is much better handled and manageable than threat in CK2, because your allies get no AE from your expansion, while in CK2 everyone is affected by it, ally or not.
Basically the solution is either a threat reset on coalition war victory / ruler death, or a much faster threat decay.
As for the player, he is affected in that looking the months pass by is not fun at all. So he has to fight huge ass wars every time, or wait.
Huge wars EVERY time are just as fun as waiting for threat to come down.
EU4 agressive expansion is much better handled and manageable than threat in CK2, because your allies get no AE from your expansion, while in CK2 everyone is affected by it, ally or not.
Basically the solution is either a threat reset on coalition war victory / ruler death, or a much faster threat decay.
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"Ally or not". How do you mean ?
As soon as you form a NAP the character/realm in question leaves/doesn't enter a coalition against you.
At least they haven't reentered in my current game and i guess that is intended.
Misunderstanding ? Elaborate maybe, please.
CK2+ nerfs the maximum Infamy gained from a single war to 14.5%. I wonder why Paradox doesn't nerf it that low?
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That in turn sounds a little bit low as a max.... and like a typical extreme Paradox turn-around: BUFF - NERF - *BOOM*
Something in the twenties would be fine with me. That's just my opinion.
With it in the twenties 2 wars would still likely push it above 50%. Which is every religion except your own joining against you.
Well twenty only as a max for several/many provinces, not as a standard.
Not too happy with how points are currently collected.
I guess and hope they rework the way how one achieves threat points.
Meh....well, let's see.
I currently plot-revoke titles from my vassals and create ORDER culturally to wait the decay out..., but that won't keep me occupied forever....
Seems i have to do one or two Blitzkriege and ignore the stupidty of it.
Ive resorted to trying to get revolts to happen via assassinations then jumping the revolters.
Yes and as soon one of the parties of the NAP dies, the NAP is over. And then the former allies enters the coalition. At least that's what i observed. ANd it's not always possible to form a NAP due to lack of children to marry etc.
And the problem really is that threat only annoys the players. AI is still blobbing (of course, slowly, or slower than the player at least), and blobs never implode.
Paradox has it all wrong in general when it comes to "punishment" for expanding... In a recent game of EU4 i took TWO provinces in a war and IMMEDIATELY had a coalition of like 20 nations. Then almost as immediately, of course one of them calls a war on me. For TWO provinces... unreal.
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The same punishment for expanding, revolt factions and more are in Stellaris, something that make me think in wait for the reviews before buy the game.