2.2 Transcendent Learning is USELESS

[sterrius]

my idea because i don´t think this is a problem that should be fixed only looking at the AP.

Transcendent Learning -> +3 Lv cap / Leaders starting level +2 levels (at 3now) / You can Surpass lv10. (Up to 13 levels).

Discovery
Supremacy
Domination
All those 3 projects that give +2 to scientist´s, admirals, governors and rulers now give +1 Lv cap and +25% xp gain.
Don´t forget we also have a Trait and a Civi that give +1 each. (the civic should really be +1 leader cap + 1 start level).

Now if you combo you can have a

Base 5
+1 Discovery
+1 science, Rulers, admirals, governors)
+1 Trait
+1 Civic

up to +9 without policy capacity boosters.
Even if you reach +10, The AP will break the barrier for you and give super leaders with a hell of a start.

This allows a couple of strategys both looking for a high level cap but also looking for good starting leaders. (Specially useful for fleeting races).

Also make sure if you want to get to lv10 you have to work a little for it. Instead of being free.

 

[Delthor]

Yeah, leader level cap is way too easy to get now. Traditions and a techs alone get you to level 9 (and 7 for generals which should really just be included in supremacy). However, it's extremely rare to see leaders get higher than 5 or 6, especially early game before all the leader lifespan techs kick in. This makes the leader cap from traits, civics, ascension perks, and even policies useless, since they do literally nothing unless you're actually hitting the cap.

Transcendent learning is the worst offender, since half its effect almost never provides any benefit at all, and it taking up an Ascension perk.

 

[Mauer]

I honestly don't understand how they could get something like this wrong when all it takes is a couple of games to realize you will hit the leader level cap without even trying, I mean streamers had like more than a week with the game before it officially released and no one thought to make some simple adjustment?

There's a perk, leader policy, two different species traits, civics, all increasing levels and utterly useless now.

Increase the cap to something like 15, reduce the base, lower traditions' to +1, or something.

 

[Serenity84]

The massive increase from tech and traditions alone also makes some civics like Meritocracy and Philosopher King useless. At least Distinguished Admiralty and Aristocratic Elite provide other benefits.
I don't think every empire should get super leaders like that.

 

[Aov7.NATREZIM]

I honestly don't understand how they could get something like this wrong when all it takes is a couple of games to realize you will hit the leader level cap without even trying, I mean streamers had like more than a week with the game before it officially released and no one thought to make some simple adjustment?

There's a perk, leader policy, two different species traits, civics, all increasing levels and utterly useless now.

Increase the cap to something like 15, reduce the base, lower traditions' to +1, or something.

streamers is a weak players, only hype train

 

[Attelwyn]

Why is the Level 10 cap there in the first place?
If we want to assemble every +level cap modifier in the game, why can't we have level 15 heroes, or however high it goes?

 

[Aov7.NATREZIM]

old mechanic

 

[Peerless Girl]

it's always been kinda useless. I like the idea of starting up a level or 2 (maybe 3) and raising cap like +1-+3 levels (it would not be able to be your first perk) might also require technocracy or One vision or something.

 

[Aov7.NATREZIM]

not always

 

[Aov7.NATREZIM]

Up
Paradox, notice this)

 

[Peter Ebbesen]

I have no problems with it being possible to reach a max level cap of 10 in several different ways - that doesn't mean that some of the ways are useless; If anything, I'm happy that it is possible. In other words, I don't see any reason to decrease the value of other max level cap increases as some have suggested here.

But I do see a reason to change Transcendent Learning, because the Ascension perks need to be both a) powerful, and b) situationally useful, such that they are at one point in gameplay worth the opportunity cost of being chosen, and it currently has real trouble achieving this in any state of the game.

So how about this:

+2 leader level cap
+100% xp gain
+1 positive random trait when created
+1 cap on traits gained from leveling up (currently leaders can gain traits on level up so long as they have less than 3 traits already; this would change to 4 with transcendent learning)

 

[Flyinghotpocket]

i wish paradox would actually balance their boons and hexs in this game. making the penalties you picked at the start of the game via traits feel real in the end game. instead of a temporary effect until you researched it out.... and make your ascenion perks feel awesome. instead of just. meh things. i paid 20$ for this expansion i except a little more than oh heres 75% integration speed. for vassals that you never want or use.

also the leadership level ascension perk has always been useless. once you reached end game you could research leadership level +1 indefinitely .

Philosopher king. sounds awesome right. but you get max leadership levels to dam fast in this game. and the kings bonus are always so weak. i should be hurting when he dies. if he was at max level. just sayin.

 

[Peerless Girl]

Difference with Philosopher King though, is you can reform government and spec out of that one when it's not needed anymore, Ascension Perks are for lyfe. PK makes a good early game perk.

 

[BarbeQ]

Transcendent Learning could include the effect that each month each Leader gets 10 XP, modified by whatever Traits he has personally and the ones his Species has. That'd be helpful for military Leaders in particular, that they slowly level up.

I used to have a mod, in my mod pack, that gave monthly XP to all Leaders, but it didn't take any Traits or modifiers into account, and ultimately I removed it, because it favoured a certain play style (hiring military Leaders early, and beelining for +Lifespan), which happened to be mine, so it felt wrong.

But it could work very well in the vanilla game, as someting that you "opt into" via an Ascension Perk.

I like the idea of a passive XP gain. Pretty sure there are some equivalents to tutorial videos in this future too

 

[Verx90]

also the leadership level ascension perk has always been useless. once you reached end game you could research leadership level +1 indefinitely .

There are never been a repetable tech as such . Only one tech that increased thw cost by 50%, life by 10 and lvl 1 policie, and another tec for double the amounts , still a policy to be selected and enrage egalitarian .





Are you guys sure there is a max lvl cap? I remember leaders lvl 11 or more ... maybe i was using mods at the time ?

 

[Aov7.NATREZIM]

its mods

 

[grommile]

Why is the Level 10 cap there in the first place?
If we want to assemble every +level cap modifier in the game, why can't we have level 15 heroes, or however high it goes?

I'll just interject here to point out that a level cap of 15 is worthless, because you'll finish the game before your characters get there

 

[Aov7.NATREZIM]

what? lol, if you use bio strategy your leaders can live 320 years)

 

[Flyinghotpocket]

whatever

There are never been a repetable tech as such . Only one tech that increased thw cost by 50%, life by 10 and lvl 1 policie, and another tec for double the amounts , still a policy to be selected and enrage egalitarian .





Are you guys sure there is a max lvl cap? I remember leaders lvl 11 or more ... maybe i was using mods at the time ?

the point still stands that it was and is useless because of other level increases being thrown around like candy.

 

[Verx90]

whatever

the point still stands that it was and is useless because of other level increases being thrown around like candy.

Yep ... even if i think its made useless by the lvl hard cap more than anything .