2.2 SUSTEMATIC micromanagement problem (attention, please)

[HindrancUS]

Dear developers!

I really liked the economic changes of new patch, and I see a huge potential in the population system, but beyond that you declared reducing of micromanagement as one of goals - and alas, this goal was failed. Allow me pronounce, why.

After "Apocalypse" patch most annoying operation in the game was creation of space stations, more precisely, the passage of all stages of this process. First you have to upgrade the Outpost. After that, time later, go back and click "Upgrade" button again. After a few more months, you should remember your plans, come back and press the "Upgrade" button again. And again. And again, because some buildings also require the completion of previous construction. An absolutely routine, non-creative task requires a lot of actions from the player and months of in-game time between these actions.
It was really discomfortable, but minor and easily fixable (when it's time) problem, so I didn't attach much importance to it.

But after the "Le Guin" patch, I realized that you don't see this problem because you've reproduced it on planets. Made it global.
It sounds terrible, but the new system in terms of micromanagement is even worse than the old one: before, sometimes you had to do a manual upgrade of buildings after the invention of their more advanced version, and it was annoying - but now you have to do it all the time. If earlier to change the profile of the planet, it was necessary, for example, to replace building A with building B, now waiting for this you need to replace building A with the basic version of building B, then, after many months, upgrade them. Maybe more than once. Each of them, and "up to sixteen per planet" is not so little.
Now this problem is not so easily fixable, no also it is not "minor" more.

I'm not going to write on how to remedy the situation (although, of course, like any visitor of the forum, I have lots of ideas) - because the purpose of this thread in the first place in the designation of problem. Just in case if for someone this problem is less obvious than I thought a few days ago.

P.S.
Dear developers, if any of you read this, please let me know that the message is read. I know it sounds silly, but I have siptathy to your game, and I prefer to know that I've done the little I've been able to do for it.

UPD:
Dear commentors, i really glad if after patch you build mess mindlessly, but aside your subjective feeling:
Replace one T3 building to another in 2.1 - 1 click
Replace one T3 building to another in 2.2 - 3 click and mounts time between it (also as spacestations).
Thread about it.

 

[hangry]

In 2.1 you just mindlessly clicked the upgrade button, now you have to think about what you are doing and make real decisions. Instead of mind numbing micro we got meaningful micro.

 

[Eelectrica]

No. Making strategic decisions as to what to build and when is not micro management.
I've noticed that there's also a downgrade button for buildings

 

[Typee]

The problem isn't as bad as in 2.0, because you shouldn't be upgrading all your building systematically, unlike before when it was a no brainer.

I do agree that starbase build queuing should be better though. For example if I queue up some anchorages for constructions, it should unlock the option to build a Naval Logistics Office right away. And you should be able to select the outpost you want to upgrade from the galaxy map, for example by right clicking on the sector.

 

[Eelectrica]

The interface could use improvements in places, no doubt.
I'd like filtering options showing unemployed when selling slaves/ resettling pops for example.

 

[James_K]

I think a big part of the problem should be solved by better notifications. In previous versions you wanted to build a new building when the old one finished, so the “building completed” notification was useful. Now the main time you want to build on a planet is when there is unemployment or overcrowding, so these should have notifications. That way you wouldn’t need to scroll through the outliner all the time checking up on your planets.

 

[TehJumpingJawa]

Yep, you do have to revisit planets far too often in 2.2; planet babysitting.

It becomes progressively more tedious the larger your empire becomes, and the one tool we had to mitigate this (sectors) is hopelessly broken.

The 'construction competed' notification is practically useless too; tell me what's been completed fgs!

 

[Mikhail_Mengsk]

"Attention please, here comes the 51st thread about micromanaging in 2.2".

OP, there are a dozen threads about this already.

 

[Woozywyvern]

In 2.1 you just mindlessly clicked the upgrade button, now you have to think about what you are doing and make real decisions. Instead of mind numbing micro we got meaningful micro.

This is it exactly.

Perhaps Paradox could make Stellaris run on its own so we don't have to think about what we are doing, and not touch the keyboard & mouse at all. That sounds like like the game people are after. /sarcasm

Strategy is all about make plans and then enacting them. You have to think about what you are doing and then decide the right time to enact the pressing of those buttons. Now instead of just clicking when you have enough minerals you have to think about it.

 

[EvilKnievel82]

There are dozens of threads related to serious issues, bugs and imbalances already and the issues you have mostly stem from not wanting to change your playstyle (same as the ftl complaints after 2.0).

Just building on every building slot immediately does not work anymore. Just let the planets sit and check on them once a year. If a handful of pops are unemployed among hundreds or do not work the optimal job does that make any tangible difference? I too have to adjust and force myself not to look to often because it does not really matter from midgame on if each planet runs perfect all the time.

Micromanagement is largely a hell of one's own making now.

 

[sillyrobot]

This is it exactly.

Perhaps Paradox could make Stellaris run on its own so we don't have to think about what we are doing, and not touch the keyboard & mouse at all. That sounds like like the game people are after. /sarcasm

Strategy is all about make plans and then enacting them. You have to think about what you are doing and then decide the right time to enact the pressing of those buttons. Now instead of just clicking when you have enough minerals you have to think about it.

Almost no thought, but a fair amount of time, is required to open every "completed construction" notification, note that both the working pop is now less than maximal and further growth is possible, and close it.

Almost no thought, but a fair amount of time, is required to scan your planet list for unemployment, open the planet, pick an appropriate district/open building slot, and plunk down the umpteenth copy of a basic building.

These are not strategic decisions. They are barely tactical decisions. They are mostly rote and maintenance decisions and they persist for a very long time for every planet you colonize.

 

[Jorrhast]

"Attention please, here comes the 51st thread about micromanaging in 2.2".

OP, there are a dozen threads about this already.

That's not a problem but a symptom.

 

[Teldaril]

I don't feel exhausted by the current system while in the previous system it was a chore and pain to build a ringworld or habitat. It is less clicking (waaaaaay less since i don't have to build and upgrade 100 buildings and i don't have to build or shift 100 pops around). It is more strategic at the start of the game but later you know what you want there and it is less strategic but still waaaaay less clicks and more strategic than 2.1. (Minerals everywhere except for special tiles. Nice)

You can always hand the sector over to the ai and never mind again. You don't have to manage 20 planets like you didn't have to in 2.1.

Now i have to do something in the mid and late game next to warfare (which was the only mid and lategame activity in the previous system) which isn't a chore but which makes me visit my planets again -if i want to-, if not, give it to the sector ai.

There is room to improvements. But the current planet and economic system is more a game and less a chore than in 2.1.

 

[Woozywyvern]

Almost no thought, but a fair amount of time, is required to open every "completed construction" notification, note that both the working pop is now less than maximal and further growth is possible, and close it.

Almost no thought, but a fair amount of time, is required to scan your planet list for unemployment, open the planet, pick an appropriate district/open building slot, and plunk down the umpteenth copy of a basic building.

These are not strategic decisions. They are barely tactical decisions. They are mostly rote and maintenance decisions and they persist for a very long time for every planet you colonize.

So what would you like to be doing in a grand strategy game/4x hybrid based in space that is heavily dependant (as a genre) on planet colonisation? If you want no interaction go watch a movie.

 

[Kain2K]

The only Problem I have with the upgrade system is that you only get a notification icon in the outliner if the administration building can be upgraded. There should also be a (maybe different looking) icon for when other buildings can be upgraded. At the moment I have to manually go through several colonies to look if something can be upgraded, regardless of if I want to upgrade that building now or not. This can get a little tedious with time, but since there are far less buildings that have upgrades than pre 2.2 and you really only have to go through all of your colonies every 10 years or so, this is, in my opinion, not as big a problem as the missing automation option. Also, I don't really see a way to solve the "more clicks" issue you describe. Since later tiers need an upgraded administration building, you have to be able to build the lower tier buildings, otherwise you won't ever be able to build certain buildings, for example a research lab, without having upgraded your administration building.

 

[SpectralShade]

So what would you like to be doing in a grand strategy game/4x hybrid based in space that is heavily dependant (as a genre) on planet colonisation? If you want no interaction go watch a movie.

Oh, I dunno.. Maybe I would propose the devs took a leaf out of the heralded masterpiece that was called MoO2? Colony management there you could even set up a template and tell the game: "Here, use this template to build after so the buildings get built in this order in time when possible". Cause, you know, that's what you do when you are supervising a grand empire. You don't sit and are required to check back on all your colonies all the time in order to make sure your economy isn't wasting away. Unless you are playing stellaris 2.2, of course.

Why is it a game decades old and still considered a masterpiece in the genre which you need to keep in mind when designing games in the genre could do something and now in 2018 (nearing 2019) we somehow lost that ability?

 

[Red-XIII]

So what would you like to be doing in a grand strategy game/4x hybrid based in space that is heavily dependant (as a genre) on planet colonisation? If you want no interaction go watch a movie.

I now it wasn't a question directed at me but...
I'd like to be able to:
1. Take a look at a planet analyse it, make a decision on how I want it to develop.
2. Be able to do something that makes implementation of the design from point 1 as hassle-free as possible.
3. Only go back to re-doing step one (and subsequently 2) if there is a good reason for it. Where good reason is
3.1 Random influence that made some part of my original plan sub optimal.
3.2 Big event that forces me to strategically adapt.

Most 4x games utterly fail at 2/3 of this. All 100% of them fail at it to some degree.
There's nothing fun or strategic about "oh, my farm planet has unemployed pop, time to build another farm sector".

And right now the best thing I can do to streamline the no-brained implementation of my own economical strategy is to alter my planet's names to make them easier to find.

I'd LOVE some QoL improvements like being able to "ghost-order" a building/sector that the planet will then later build once there's manpower to man it and the numbers to unlock it's building slot it and the tech to allow it's construction. And like I said in another thread I'd also like to be able to tell AI upfront WHEN I want pop growth restriction implemented.

There's MAKING decisions and then there's implementing them.

What you wanna do in a good game is to complicate the first and streamline the second (not the other way around).
If the first is so weak in your game that it can't keep the player occupied without the second then you've got MAJOR design problems. And if not, then not streamlining the second is just plain lazy work ethic (and the fact that it's a dominant ethic doesn't make it any less lazy).

P.S. Don't get me wrong I'm NOT against 2.2's changes. I dunno about 2.1 and some other times, but around the time utopia came out and all the times before that this game didn't even have decisions worthy of making. 2.2 is the main reason I'm even looking at this game again.

 

[Jibril]

@Red-XIII said it really well

I really like the new changes introduced in 2.2, you are making actual decisions.
BUT when you have 20+ planets and 1000+ pop it's a lot of coming back to check on things again and again. This is especially evident when playing hivemind as
you're expanding as much as possible. You know what you want at that point yet you're still coming back to check on things, it's tedious. Let's not forget that with those
20+ planets each time you check on stuff you have to cycle through all of them to check to see if there are any scavengers.

There needs to be a adequate solution that fixes all that unnecessary clicking.

Some people may be fine with checking on things 24/7 and may even enjoy it, but for those of us that do not it would be nice to see a another solution.

 

[Teldaril]

There needs to be a adequate solution that fixes all that unnecessary clicking.

Why not giving the planets to the sector ai? It is not perfect but i guess it is the best short term solution. And the sector ai as it currently is might be the best foundation to implement improvements for endgame management.

 

[sillyrobot]

Why not giving the planets to the sector ai? It is not perfect but i guess it is the best short term solution. And the sector ai as it currently is might be the best foundation to implement improvements for endgame management.

Currently, the sector AI does mostly nothing. Even if it did develop planets, you have to manually feed each sector all the resources necessary and continually check that each one has sufficient material to continue development.

In essence, all you do by turning it on is add even more rote check-ups to game play already full of it.

It may be a solution sometime in the future, but currently it adds work without providing value.