2.2 & Megacorp Teasers

[methegrate]

The problem about making stellaris focused on people is that the time scale is just a little too fast for it. People just die too fast for it to be possible to really become CK2 in space.
I think there's still hope though. Wiz mentioned wanting to rework the feudal civic, we now (hopefully) have better rebellions and crime and sectors are also still there. So more politically independent sectors might still be a possibility.
If they're really getting rid of the core world limit then I assume sectors might reduce the big empire penalties at the cost of less autonomy. Although maybe it's the opposite and we have less big empire penalty without sectors, but in turn get more stability problems and possible rebellions?

I think it depends on how you define "people," right? Or maybe "characters" is the better term.

If we think of empires and sectors as characters, with personalities, problems and goals, then the timeline becomes much more manageable. Firefly's Core and Hub had very distinct cultures and characters, even if they were entire regions, just as (in contemporary terms) Texas and Massachusetts do in the United States. That relationship would make for a great game, as you try to run a space empire in which you have to keep happy both gun toting space cowboys and egghead hippies. They both agree that you have to stop the dimensional horror, but

That's kind of how I've always thought of it... The EU or the USA in space.

But I'm not really sure Stellaris does move too fast for people to be a big deal too. A game is, what, a few hundred years? Let's say conservatively the average leader gets 50 years. That's only six generations in a 300 year game. That seems quite manageable to me.

Besides, I feel like this begs the question. If Stellaris isn't CKII in space... kinda what is it trying to be?

 

[Ur-Quan Lord 13]

The default trigger time for the endgame crisis is 2400.

2450. But 50 years is also a reasonable crisis-defeating time, anyway. So the 2500 game-over time is still reasonable.

I don't think I really get attached to individuals in games other than RPGs though... In this game, the closest I come is "try to get a 4-trait immortal ruler" or "try to get a 7-trait admiral".

 

[Enska]

JUST Primitive Planets?
Because I kinda really want to be able to implement Radical Space Anarcho-Primitivism intentionally.

I partially agree. Primitives should not be just natives, but an occasional nuisance or boon of regular planets as well. On the other hand, I guess they are out of focus of Le Guin.

 

[Twogs]

Size 15 World with a District limit of 20.

So we will definitively get Mega Worlds with over 25 Districts, huh?

 

[Enska]

An important piece in streams that was not covered here: Upgrading buildings is prohibitively expensive, as both upgrade and maintenance costs special resources, like those volatile motes. Upgradeable buildings include refineries that give more jobs per infrastructure, once upgraded.

This seems rather solid design for me, and gives an Endless Legend vibe in a good way. The big difference is that in Endless Series you tend spam those buildings as they cost only money in upkeep and you have to always build something or you waste production. Plus they don't have building cap.

 

[Oscot]

An important piece in streams that was not covered here: Upgrading buildings is prohibitively expensive, as both upgrade and maintenance costs special resources, like those volatile motes. Upgradeable buildings include refineries that give more jobs per infrastructure, once upgraded.

So you can only support a number of Ecumenopolises proportional to your number of Mote-Mine worlds?

Well, as rock-solid ways to keep the Core Worlds distinct from the Frontier Worlds go, that's one.

 

[Twogs]

An important piece in streams that was not covered here: Upgrading buildings is prohibitively expensive, as both upgrade and maintenance costs special resources, like those volatile motes. Upgradeable buildings include refineries that give more jobs per infrastructure, once upgraded.

This seems rather solid design for me, and gives an Endless Legend vibe in a good way. The big difference is that in Endless Series you tend spam those buildings as they cost only money in upkeep and you have to always build something or you waste production. Plus they don't have building cap.

​

You just contradicted yourself.

Endless games are all about spamming. I never had a system/city were I didn't build just everything.

But the extremely expansive upgrades you mentioned should achieve the exact opposite. Meaningful choices what to build when and where.

 

[Enska]

So you can only support a number of Ecumenopolises proportional to your number of Mote-Mine worlds?

Well, as rock-solid ways to keep the Core Worlds distinct from the Frontier Worlds go, that's one.

But the extremely expansive upgrades you mentioned should achieve the exact opposite. Meaningful choices what to build when and where.

Exactly. These both points are the elegance of the design. Separate developed worlds from raw material producers and require meaningful choices rather than click work. Now I just hope this will work in practice.

 

[Tamwin5]

So you can only support a number of Ecumenopolises proportional to your number of Mote-Mine worlds?

Well, as rock-solid ways to keep the Core Worlds distinct from the Frontier Worlds go, that's one.

Well, not quite. You can still make a city planet without volatile motes, you just won't be able to use the more advanced buildings. So you won't be able to get as much out of your city planets. It might also be worthwhile to buy up volatile motes on the market to be able to make those advanced buildings, depending on the price of alloys/luxury goods.

Something else I noticed on stream: There was a "chemical refinery" building that produced exotic gasses from energy credits. So some of these rare resources you may be able to produce.

I think in terms of strategies, building should be split into two main categories: Those that benefit from additional infrastructure(foundries, manufactories, research labs, etc.), and those that don't(mote mines, chemical refineries, palaces). The first you want to put on city planets, the second on your resource worlds. This might mean that a large world, If it has a couple of rare resources on it, would still be better suited to raw resources, because of the building slots it takes up. All of this being said, I doubt that most planets will end up being all one or the other.

Also in regards to the 20 districts on the size 15 planet: That was a fallen empire planet. I doubt players will be able to do that (if they can, it's a late game tech of some sort. Maybe a repeatable "+1 max districts per planet"?).

 

[Oscot]

Something else I noticed on stream: There was a "chemical refinery" building that produced exotic gasses from energy credits. So some of these rare resources you may be able to produce.

Urgh. One step forward, two steps back.
"Not only can you buy your strategic resources from the market, thereby nullifying any prospect of geostrategy or important-to-control systems, but you can also make them yourself using credits, nullifying BOTH geostrategy AND the market!!"

At this point, why even have strategics at all, everything's tumbling tumbling tumbling down to the exact same resource fungibility of 1.5.

 

[Gaussia]

Urgh. One step forward, two steps back.
"Not only can you buy your strategic resources from the market, thereby nullifying any prospect of geostrategy or important-to-control systems, but you can also make them yourself using credits, nullifying BOTH geostrategy AND the market!!"

At this point, why even have strategics at all, everything's tumbling tumbling tumbling down to the exact same resource fungibility of 1.5.

I think there are some resources which can be produced and some that have to be found and mined. I also think they mentioned that some of the rarer resources would be unavailable on the market. Are we sure that it plant produces exotic gasses by the way? Cannot find the video now but I thought that it just produced chemicals.

Edit: On a second look the chemical plant produces volatile motes. There is a second facility producing exotic gases.

I agree with you. It would be nice to allow a few of the most necessary advanced resources (alloys, luxury resources...) to be produces from secondary jobs. Have another set which is requires for cooler buildings that needs to be mined (volatile motes, exotic gasses..), but can also be purchased from the market at certain circumstances (e.g. you have build up a lot of facilities require ring those resources, then someone temporarily occupies your planets which mines them and you temporarily have to buy at high prices until you get your facilities back. Finally you could have a set of super rare resources like dark matter and zro dust which can neither be produced by specialist nor bought. These can either be found or mined and are required for buying certain one of stuff, like components for advanced ships.

 

[LeSingeAffame]

Urgh. One step forward, two steps back.
"Not only can you buy your strategic resources from the market, thereby nullifying any prospect of geostrategy or important-to-control systems, but you can also make them yourself using credits, nullifying BOTH geostrategy AND the market!!"

At this point, why even have strategics at all, everything's tumbling tumbling tumbling down to the exact same resource fungibility of 1.5.

We don't know anything about the numbers.
The point of being able to buy a small amount of strategic resources is not to be blocked by the game because you weren't lucky whan you spawned. But if the amount you can get a very small for a very expensive price, then it makes conquering the area with the resources and holding on them very lucrative, since you have a direct access to the resource which you can use or sell for a high price

 

[Oscot]

I don't know how you can say

We don't know anything about the numbers.

but then immediatly go on to say

The point of being able to buy a small amount of strategic resources is not to be blocked by the game because you weren't lucky whan you spawned.

If an empire can survive with 3 fewer orillium ores than everyone else, it can also survive with 4 fewer orillium ores than everyone else. Indeed, going without a strategic might - SHOCK HORROR - lead to your economy looking profoundly different to everyone else's, which is the whole point of Le Guin

 

[Pootino]

I suspect ecumenopolis may be part of a dlc: during the stream the loading screen showed a new background picture of what seemed an ecumenopolis' surface, they only added new backgrounds when relasing a new dlc (the dragon for Creatures of the void, a Dyson sphere for Utopia, a machine world for Synthetic Dawn and an L-Gate for Distant Stars). If I'm not mistaken there was also a new piece of ost playing in the background during the stream.

 

[Vitruvian Guar]

Fallen Empires teasers:

Fallen Empires have most of the population in the "Hedonist" jobs, being fallen doing nothing all day just consuming A LOT of luxury things.

And Fallen Empires will have different societies, but the Xenophobe in particular, have Non-sapient Robots doing all the Worker Jobs. "Fully automated luxury gay space xenophobia" by Wiz words.

Wow, I love this FE flavour. Actually fallen societies - brilliant. Though I thought that xenophobe FE is more bio-focused, so it would make sense for them to have nervestapled slave-proles rather than robots. Also, nano-forge is ridiculously overpowered.

 

[Ikael]

Wow, that developer corner had some juicy bits:

- Corporate dominion being a much more unique civic. I wonder if another ones will follow (agrarian idyl and warrior culture comes to mind). Can't wait to know more about it
- The new pop focused system is much more flavourful than the old tile system, because of course it is. Unique planets and events are going to be awesome after Le Guin
- Factories able to produce strategic resources. Ugh. There should be resources impossible to produce, or else they wouldn't be strategic at all
- Spiritualists now will get -5% costs to edicts. That seems like a really weak bonus to me, but final numbers are not final, yadda, yadda
- The death of sectors (!) it would seem to me that there will be some kind of governance stat giving out penalties to wide empires. Hmmm. I feel that sectors and governors will be eventually re-introduced in the next big diplomacy rework, and that this is a stop-gag measure. At least I hope so

 

[Revan F]

Wow, that developer corner had some juicy bits:

- Factories able to produce strategic resources. Ugh. There should be resources impossible to produce, or else they wouldn't be strategic at all

It may be the represntation of refining these raw resources to an useful form.

 

[The Founder]

So, if I heard it right in the stream, they are doing away with the "core world" limit and instead displaying a value in its place that shows you how big and "bloated" your empire is and that number will be used for calculating the tech and unity penalties.
They also said that for that number they count the total amount of districts you have and the amount of systems you control (but they mentioned that might go away, too).

This sounds kinda interesting to me because it might mean that instead of these (in my opinion pretty boring) civics/perks that increase the core world limit we might now get an effect that reduces the empire size penalty which means that will be pretty attractive for especially wide/expansive empires to get.

Personally, I'm disappointed. I still think the (assumed) original idea for sectors was just great. A mid-game in which your empire is populated with fractious, larger-than-life personalities and political movements sounds like a fantastic game.

But sectors will still exist. Wiz confirmed that in a reply to one of the dev diaries. They will just work differently and apparently be optional.

Okay, @Death Dragon I think you utterly missheard that.
They are replacing the "Number of Planets" and "Number of Pops" penalties to Unity and Technology with "a count of Districts" plus maybe a "count of Planets/Systems".

Wiz was very explicit that sectors would not go away.

 

[TheTam]

Core World mechanic as we know it will be gone though

 

[Enska]

Wow, I love this FE flavour. Actually fallen societies - brilliant.

Those hedonists really made my day! xD Not something what the game absolutely needs, but I just love it how they make implicit world building with things like this.