2.2 Economy works only with economy edicts

[stenver]

Me and my friend were playing multiplayer. We are quite equal in skill. We had a small war between us (which I won) for turf at the beginning, then fell into prologued peace, as the 2.2 economies fell heavy on our shoulders. Both had planets to colonise and borders were drawn. With 5x crisis strength, Admiral AI with Glavius, fanatic purifier on both of our borders and high aggressiveness - we understood we need to turtle up before we blow each-other to pieces

We are both quite equal - we know the basics of 2.2 economy and I had 3 tall worlds, one specialised on alloys, 1 on goods and 1 on research. I also had 6 rular worlds - all specialising on food and either minerals or credits(credits only to keep myself from going red, always preferred minerals)

80 years in the game, we found out my friend was way ahead of me, even though at some point it seemed he was doing really hard, fighting 3 AI wars that were declared against him, but fending off all of them successfully, albeit barely, by completely selling everything in market to buy more alloys, and produce so much alloys that he had like 3 mineral income in one war when it got especially hard.

But still - he was way ahead of me. I had lived in a lot more peace then he did. I had planets earlier than him. I had tons of rare resources simply from space stations. I had criminal megacorp branch offices. But he was way ahead.

I was struggling with food - even though every single planet had full farms, i had Hydroponic farms in every spaceport, I had Hydroponic farms in rular world planets - i was constantly out of food. I could almost never encourage growth, because I simply didn't have food. And yes - I made sure pops are working in food.

He had constant encourage growth on every plant. He had 1.5x more population than I did. He didn't have Hydroponic farms everywhere where he could build it. And he had almost the same number of planets.

He heavily outproduced me in Alloys 2x and have enough minerals for all buildings. He bought 15000 alloys in the market 80 years in. I could barely keep my mineral production in at 100, alloy production at 40.

He even had more inefficient economy with consumer goods - while I kept consumer goods in a stable +5-10, he had +24. All he could do with that is sell them in the market.

But he was ahead, in every sense. More defensive wars, more alloys wasted to fleet. More consumer goods wasted. But he was tons ahead, with lots of population and surplus food.

We started looking into it - why was I constantly struggling so much, while he was doing just fine in a lot harder position and less efficiency?

We went through all the numbers and found it - It was production targets and farming subsidiaries edict. Even with 5 technology choices and 80 years, not once did I get these tech choices offered(I always look for them). Bad luck really - but i absolutely crippled me. Luckily I got capacity overload quite early, otherwise I would probably be just dead a long time ago

Once I got these 2 edicts(around the same time really) - I immediately activated both. Suddenly my economy wasn't a slog that was dying and needed balancing from markets every second day anymore. It was like a miracle - everything was fixed.

So one of the big problems with 2.2 economy - it's almost impossible to run an empire without these 3 edicts - production targets, farming subsidies and capacity overload
- Even with every world producing food, theres not enough.
- If you want to produce meaningful amount of alloys, there's never enough. Forget T2 or T3 buildings without it
- My only goal was to keep energy production at 0 - since food and minerals are a lot more valuable - I managed to barely do it while scrambling for food and minerals, only thanks to capacity overload. Without it, I would only be producing consumer goods I guess

And yes - My trade generates 50% consumer goods to lessen the mineral burden

 

[Gyrvendal]

Those edicts are useful for tall empires that are sitting on too much influence from not claiming systems or building outposts. Of course +20% production is strong and can really help your economy, but you said yourself you were able to keep things balanced without them. I really don't believe these edicts were the only difference in play between your friend and you. I'm especially surprised that you were struggling with food as this resource is ridiculously easy to get in large amounts.

Try livestock slavery next time, it's absolutely insane : no districts required, half housing, no consumer goods upkeep, etc. You can drown in food without ever building a farming district.

 

[AlanC9]

What did your planetary districts look like? I get the feeling you built too many generators, and maybe too many cities.

 

[rubert]

The tech for edicts are usually pretty early as they are T1 so it was unfortunate you didn't get them. Farming tech also gives flat farming bonus and the mining tech gives building to increase mining bonuses on the planet. I usually try to get researchers with biology and engineering traits as they increase chances to get many important infrastructure techs needed for the early game (including the techs required for the edicts).

 

[stenver]

I was barely balancing my economy and I sometimes needed to buy food, often sell stuff because of negative credits

I only bought housing districts when I ran out of it

I only bought enough generator districts to keep myself at 0 energy production, most of the time being barely negative

I never bought anything useless on buildings like fortresses, temples, police etc

I kicked clerks and built mining districts for them

All my planets had 50% stability

I don't want to play slaver - other styles should be viable as well

I played in very austeric way - rural world's created basic resources and core world's created basic + their specialisation.

I would expect the economy to be able to not only be balanced but actually blossom in case of such careful management. Instead, until production edicts, I was constantly struggling. That's the major complaint of this post as well

 

[wingren013]

I was struggling with food - even though every single planet had full farms, i had Hydroponic farms in every spaceport, I had Hydroponic farms in rular world planets - i was constantly out of food. I could almost never encourage growth, because I simply didn't have food. And yes - I made sure pops are working in food.

Even with every world producing food, theres not enough.

I really doubt this. Unless you were extremely unlucky with agriculture districts, there should be plenty to go around. A mid-size agri-world can feed hundreds of pops potentially. If you really are struggling with food because of luck, sell other resources to buy it and maybe switch away from nutritional plentitude if you are on it and the situation is serious. Deficits aren't bad, the market is there to be used.

I don't want to play slaver - other styles should be viable as well

I played in very austeric way - rural world's created basic resources and core world's created basic + their specialisation.

I would expect the economy to be able to not only be balanced but actually blossom in case of such careful management. Instead, until production edicts, I was constantly struggling. That's the major complaint of this post as well

I think you mismanaged your economy. I'm playing a fanatic egalitarian game and the only resource I have a major deficit in is energy, mainly because I really haven't been building energy districts. I do use edicts but that is only to increase the surplus I generate so I can sell it to buy more alloys.

 

[AlanC9]

To judge this, we'd either need to see specific numbers or look at the save.

But even if it works the way you say it did, how is that a problem? Those edicts cost a bunch of influence. They should give you a big benefit if you run them. Otherwise, why run them?

 

[Mikhail_Mengsk]

To judge this, we'd either need to see specific numbers or look at the save.

But even if it works the way you say it did, how is that a problem? Those edicts cost a bunch of influence. They should give you a big benefit if you run them. Otherwise, why run them?

/thread

Also, it's impossible they were the ONLY difference. While it's true that the bigger the base production, the bigger the bonus (and thus using them gets more and more profitable), it shoulnd't have been possible to accumulate that kind of difference on edicts alone. Maybe he's just more efficient at juggling jobs and got luckier with technologies/districts.

 

[stenver]

I doubt he is more efficient with juggling jobs - since I often gavehave tips as we went

But I will provide the save when I get to computer

As I said - while this economy kind of worked, it was barely. Biggest problem I hava was that production edicts are not there to make economy skyrocket. They are there to get economy off the ground

Without these edicts you can slowly build up, but you she constantly struggling. You can never get very strong economy without them. You can never be competitive without these edicts

I suggest you try it - play a no-pause, no edict game - and tell me do you really feel you ever get a strong economy

Before 2.2 these edicts were to get your economy explode. After 2.2 these edicts become a backbone of the economy

 

[Juboboman]

So the edicts designed to significantly boost your economy significantly boosted your economy?

 

[stenver]

So the edicts designed to significantly boost your economy significantly boosted your economy?

They are now mandatory, not optional

 

[Juboboman]

They are now mandatory, not optional

But the only example given of it being "mandatory" is if you are trying to keep up economically with someone that is using it. Again, if a person using it and not using it had similar economic output, there would be no reason to use them.

 

[stenver]

But the only example given of it being "mandatory" is if you are trying to keep up economically with someone that is using it. Again, if a person using it and not using it had similar economic output, there would be no reason to use them.

If you play with no AI, crisises and friends, then yes, you have time forever and don't need blooming economy. But that's not the case. Even workout friend I needed to keep up with AI to ensure they won't annihilate me, especially the fanatic purifier

And also the food - that was a constant problem before the edicts. Of course, of you have 0 pressure, you can always use market to stabilise it

 

[SectorsAreOkay]

I have a booming economy in my current game with 7 planets. They aren't strongly specialized. I haven't used any of those edicts during my play. Sure, I had some periods where food, energy or consumer goods were low, but generally I was fine.

 

[KonradKurze202]

We are quite equal in skill

I think this is your primary assumption. Given that he outpaced you so clearly he might have a better understanding of the new mechanics than you. The edicts are by no means mandatory, but they can help you with your short comings. For example in one game I avoided building mineral districts for quite a while, relying on stations and the boost from the edict to support my alloy production. I could have done a more balanced approach, but I thought it would be fun to rush alloys to expand then shifting focus after to getting my economy back in order.
But the edicts are not mandatory, if you spent that influence on expanding it could potentially get you more (conquering whole worlds).

 

[Jorgen_CAB]

In the early game it is generally beneficial to concentrate alot on basic resource production and make sure you have a considerable over production. If you get in a situation you need more alloys you can buy them for a quick fix. It is very expensive to start producing lots of alloys in the start and the other more basic resources will make you snowball faster and thus your economy will become stronger as a result and THEN you can start investing in more specialized production, perhaps through Habitats or an Ecumenopolis as your industrial backbone.

Basic resources should NEVER be your problem as long as you are expanding. You have to understand that specialist are VERY expensive to maintain now, try to only use what you really need in the early game so you can expand your economy as fast as possible by having excess amount of basic resources to constantly invest in your economy.

Those edicts are not needed unless you can't expand through other means.

 

[Lord Ruby]

Perhaps you had habitability problems? I remember a Xenophile nation I played recently where migrating pops would grow on planets they weren't suited for, which significantly increased my food consumption, as well as my consumer goods consumption. The more pops are used for maintenance the less room you have to produce a surplus of resources for reinvesting, which means you can't snowball as much.

 

[B3ndolf]

tbh it was probably as much attitude as anything........if he was having a tough time and being beset on all sides as you describe he was probably on the edge of his seat fully focused on eking out every little advantage he could, in other words playing at the top of his game.

whereas you on the other hand having an easy time of it probably just coasted along with no pressure on you to squeeze out every ounce of power from your empire.

 

[AlanC9]

If you play with no AI, crisises and friends, then yes, you have time forever and don't need blooming economy. But that's not the case. Even workout friend I needed to keep up with AI to ensure they won't annihilate me, especially the fanatic purifier

And also the food - that was a constant problem before the edicts. Of course, of you have 0 pressure, you can always use market to stabilise it

I'm still not clear on why food was a constant problem for you. AFAIK the current meta is to produce tons of food and trade the surplus for whatever you're short on.

As for the edicts, he's paying the influence and getting production bonuses. Your influence was going ... where? Claiming systems? Those should have produced resources for you.

 

[bobucles]

Every pop carries a huge flat tax on them. They cost food, housing, amenities, consumer goods which mean minerals, and the energy upkeep of all the districts and buildings to keep them. I don't have the exact numbers but let's say that every 10 pops on the field can support 12 pops worth of costs. Your actual profit is only what those 2 extra pops can produce.

What happens when you make your pops stronger? It means 10 pops can support more. Add a 25% boost and instead of 10 pops feeding 12, 10 pops can suddenly feed 15. Your profit goes from 2 to 5, an economic increase of 150%! It's even better than that because those 5 extra pops are also giving 25% more.

Weak pops are so unbelievably weak that they can drain your economy, while seemingly small bonus actually gives a massive boost of profit. It's also why things like slaves and livestock are way stronger than they may seem at first glance. Their upkeep is so low that everything they produce is pure profit.

I totally believe that pop boosting edicts are mandatory. Your economy is always starving with normal production and getting more efficiency from your pops is key.