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Wysaw

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2.2.3 beta feedback

Devouring swarm diplomatic penalty applies twice (-1000 x 2) not that it really matters but I don't think this is right?

Devouring swarm cannot stop own pops being forcibly resettled to newly conquered worlds. other races have a policy to control this but the swarm (and possibly all hive minds?) can't stop this happening. causes extreme frustration when conquering worlds that you have very low habitability for (especially tomb worlds) or worlds that you don't want. should give the swarm the policy to control this.

AI empires don't upgrade their ships. when they have new tech they do use it but they never seem to refit their fleets to keep up with what they have. In year 75 I am seeing most empires are still using tier 1 weapons despite having better stuff on some of their newer ships.

AI uses inferior picket ship (point defense) designs for corvettes and destroyer. Standard designs (eg interceptor for corvette) outperform the picket variant giving the player a big edge over the AI. this also makes missles/torpedoes/carrier tech completely pointless as every AI fleet will have huge amounts of point defense.

Terraforming gases edict (+50% terraforming speed) does not work at all. doesn't effect terraforming projects started before or after applying the edict.

Sectors are extremely random, please let us control which planets belong to which sectors or have an iron clad rule like "all planets within x hyperlanes distance". Sometimes you can get two or three sectors where there should only be one (all planets within one or two hyperlanes of each other). you end up needing far too many governors than you really should. I'm fine with some isolated fringe planet being its own sector but when you get multiple sectors within spitting distance of each other its just sad. there doesn't seem to be any logic to it.

Devouring swarm don't use diplomacy yet I am still constantly told about other empires migration treaties, research agreements, non aggression pacts etc etc. There really should be a way to turn off these notifications. I don't even care when I can use diplomacy and I am willing to bet the vast majority of players ignore these and just check the diplomacy screen for each empire when they need to know such things. please make the spam stop.
The only one that should show up is if someone has joined/started a federation or anything effecting you directly.

I love 2.2 so far, planet development is much better now and the new economy is way more engaging. I just hope you can eventually get the AI empires to be as good as they were in 1.9. its been a push over since the 2.0 update.
 

Todie

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2.2.3 beta feedback
[...]

AI empires don't upgrade their ships. when they have new tech they do use it but they never seem to refit their fleets to keep up with what they have. In year 75 I am seeing most empires are still using tier 1 weapons despite having better stuff on some of their newer ships.
[...].

In my recent experience, this - and other AI-economy issues - is overwhelmingly a budgeting issue.

Concerning fleet upgrades, the unmodded AI reserves a static % for upgrades, regardless of what the upgrades in line would cost. Further, the AI will not order / start preparing for an upgrade that it ”cant afford” by the logic above.

The budgeting system is thankfully quite open to modding now, and i have a reliable fix for this ready for my next patch of my AI mod (glavius mod does something on this too, but less with budgeting and more with trigges - last i checked)
 
Last edited:

evilcat

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On the birght side, it was a while as players complained about Torpedoes being op and AI doing nothing to stop it. So here we are.
Also Destroyers 1P4S design is something for picketing.
It would be great to see AI fleet doctrine or personality. One empire really likes heavy armour and torpedoes, other energy and shields and so on. But that need to wait for fixing economy in general. Maybe it is higher priority for AI to not bancrupt.
 

Todie

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Ai modder perspective on PD :

Something im considering doing to help AI get resonable amount of picket modules is to create additional hull/section types so that im able to handle their weighting sepparately from the regular hulls/sections. This would enable making 20% of destroyers dedicated to picket modules, for example - without messing with loadout of non-picket ships.

... Taking it a step further would be to adapt those pd-ship ratios dynamically to neigbours/rivals weapon preferences or techs. Idk about this though, certainly not before fleshing out ai personalities overall.
 

Wysaw

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@Todie I am aware of the Glavius AI mod fixes for fleets (upgrading, budgeting etc), it's very good but at the moment he has some other issues with a few things like job priorities which is causing also sorts of economy headaches for me so I am going to wait until its a bit more stable. otherwise I will be using that mod as soon as updates calm down a bit.

@evilcat Other than in multiplayer stellaris AI has never taken advantage of the different weapon types since it was released. I agree it would be nice to see different empires use different stuff but without a major update I doubt we will ever see this, at the moment I would just prefer if they used interceptors for corvettes and picket for destroyers like they used to. at least that way they wouldn't suck as badly for the first 100 years (IE until cruisers).
 

AlphaAsh

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@Todie I am aware of the Glavius AI mod fixes for fleets (upgrading, budgeting etc), it's very good but at the moment he has some other issues with a few things like job priorities which is causing also sorts of economy headaches for me so I am going to wait until its a bit more stable. otherwise I will be using that mod as soon as updates calm down a bit.

Glavius is ambitous and I don't envy him for the efforts he is making. Myself and @Todie are both coming at it from different angles, so you have a few solutions you can try out. Look for Stay Down Pit on the workshop if you want a more isolated attempt at fixing job priorities.
 

Snoipah

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AI empires don't upgrade their ships. when they have new tech they do use it but they never seem to refit their fleets to keep up with what they have. In year 75 I am seeing most empires are still using tier 1 weapons despite having better stuff on some of their newer ships..
SO THAT IS WHAT'S GOING ON!

I was wondering why some empires, specifically ones who haven't been to war, have weak ships. Also makes sense as to why some empires who are war happy and thus lose ships to replace them with better ones are also ones that snowball faster.

Fascinating.
 

Belhedler

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Yeah upgrade is too expensive for them (and maybe for us, who knows). Ever tried federation fleet? You better create adequate ship templates and keep an eye on them otherwise what the fleet will only have for it is numbers.
 

Wysaw

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@AlphaAsh Job priorities in vanilla 2.2.3 beta are absolutely fine as is for me. the only real issue is when pops get forcibly resettled to newly conquered worlds (which hive minds can't prevent) and the absurdly long time it takes for pops to demote to lower jobs. Other than that I only really want the fixes that make enemy fleets competitive.
 

SteelCrow

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I love/agree with everything you say except this (mostly):
Terraforming gases edict (+50% terraforming speed) does not work at all. doesn't effect terraforming projects started before or after applying the edict.
The edict actually does work, you just must not be looking in the right place. The overall summary for terraforming indeed does not change, but if you look at the pop-up tooltip, it'll skip to 2/3 the base completion time.
Also, iirc the overall timer skips days with the edict running.

Just a UI discrepancy.
 
Last edited:

heliostellar

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I love/agree with everything you say except this (mostly):

The edict actually does work, you just must not be looking in the right place. The overall summary for terraforming indeed does not change, but if you look at the pop-up tooltip, it'll skip to 2/3 the base completion time.
Also, iirc the overall timer skips days with the edict running.

Just a UI discrepancy.

This. It's just a UI thing. They are looking to update the UI in the next patch.
 

methegrate

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I am still constantly told about other empires migration treaties, research agreements, non aggression pacts etc etc. There really should be a way to turn off these notifications. I don't even care when I can use diplomacy and I am willing to bet the vast majority of players ignore these and just check the diplomacy screen for each empire when they need to know such things. please make the spam stop.
The only one that should show up is if someone has joined/started a federation or anything effecting you directly.

A hundred times this.
 

evilcat

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It is hard to make AI smart. But we can try stopping it from killing itself.
Corvette 2S1P with 1 energy and 1 mass, is versalite and simple. If player decides to cheese with torpedoes that is one way to stop it.
Destroyer 1P4S i use it if i know that enemy is using mass corvettas. (medium would be loss of firepower, and starbases sometimes sport hangars or torpedoes.

If AI is mass using Destroyer 2S3P that is a loss and handicap. It is very specialized setup against enemy torpedoes and goind for it always and blindly is not the best plan.
 

Wysaw

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Oh wow I didn't realise this, but when it relocates your pops to newly conquered worlds it may also ruin buildings on the worlds that it takes them from (since they drop below the pop threshold). 10/10 paradox love you guys.
 

Wysaw

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@SteelCrow You are right, thanks for letting me know. I was looking at the information displayed when you initially select the terraforming. If this is working and its just a UI thing then that's cool. I didn't even realise there was pop up display for terraforming until you mentioned it.

@ranma100 Thanks I will. I used to use it but I forgot about it since 2.0