[2.2.0.1] Rise of the Shia at Charlemagne start.

[StrokerMcGavin]

One of the issues with choosing the Charlemagne start is the incredible stability of the Abbasid Empire. I believe that one of the reasons why the Abbasids are so stable is because it's very difficult to get the Rise of the Shia event to fire.

This is because the Hashimid Emir is a Shia Sayyid and can create the Shia Caliphate as soon as he has enough money while remaining a vassal of the Sunni Caliph. With the Shia Caliph as a landed vassal of the Sunni Caliph, the Rise of the Shia event will never fire as long as the Shia Caliph keeps having kids to pass the Caliphate to. This leads to an incredibly stable Abbasid Empire.

I don't know if this is working as intended, but it makes doing anything in the middle east very difficult.

 

[mrflibble]

Probably a bug. I can't imagine the Shia Caliph being able to be a vassal of the Sunni Caliph is something that's working as intended.

 

[Alliegorical]

As the Byzantines, I beat on the Abbasids several times, assassinated their Caliph, and watched their child-Caliph lose a decadence revolt. Afterwards, several of their emirs in Persia, and one on my border in Aleppo went independent (I suspect due to the vassal-limit working as intended =D), but suddenly now the deposed Abbasid Caliph holds the Shia Caliphate as a vassal of the Sunni Caliph to whom he lost the revolt. And yes, the Abbasid-Shia-Caliph is still Sunni. I'm not sure when or how he got that title, but that can't be working as intended, amirite?

 

[Sleight of Hand]

Yeah, there should really be a line of code stopping one religious leader being the vassal of another.

 

[mrflibble]

Looks like this is still present in 2.2.0.3

Saw this immediately after starting as Abbasids:

 

[Five_X]

Yeah, it'd just be best if vassals were barred from creating top-tier religious titles like the Caliphates, Fylkirate, etc.

 

[StrokerMcGavin]

Yeah, it'd just be best if vassals were barred from creating top-tier religious titles like the Caliphates, Fylkirate, etc.

I talked with Groogy and he said that doing that will probably mess up the Rise of the Shia event, but he is looking into a fix.

 

[MrNibbles]

I've added this to our internal database even if Groogy knows about it, just to make sure it does not get forgotten.

 

[Five_X]

I talked with Groogy and he said that doing that will probably mess up the Rise of the Shia event, but he is looking into a fix.

I don't think it would mess anything up; Rise of the Shia is an event that creates a Shia Caliph, whereas here we have a conveniently placed vassal claiming the caliphate despite being vassal to the caliphate. With the way it is right now, the Rise of the Shia event almost never happens in a 769 game.

 

[Talq]

The more worrying part about the screenshots above is that you have a shia head of religion who is sunni. I expect being of the proper faith would make him a bit more rebellious.

Yeah, there should really be a line of code stopping one religious leader being the vassal of another.

As of last patch the ecumenial patriarch became a vassal of whoever owned Constantinople. There would presumably be issues if that owner was presumably fylkyr or caliph as well.

 

[StrokerMcGavin]

I don't think it would mess anything up; Rise of the Shia is an event that creates a Shia Caliph, whereas here we have a conveniently placed vassal claiming the caliphate despite being vassal to the caliphate. With the way it is right now, the Rise of the Shia event almost never happens in a 769 game.

If I remember correctly, the Rise of the Shia event uses a Sunni vassal to create the Shia Caliphate and associated doomstack in the same way that the Mongol events use the Pope. Making it so that vassals can't create the Caliphate might cause problems with this, which is what Groogy was worried about. The fix might be as simple as making it so vassals can't create the title, however it might alternatively be a huge pain in the patoot.

 

[StrokerMcGavin]

As of last patch the ecumenial patriarch became a vassal of whoever owned Constantinople. There would presumably be issues if that owner was presumably fylkyr or caliph as well.

Also the Miaphysite Patriarch is a vassal of whoever controls Alexandria.

 

[grisamentum]

The more worrying part about the screenshots above is that you have a shia head of religion who is sunni.

No he doesn't. He started the game as the Sunni Caliph, and one of his vassals - a Shia - made the Shia caliphate.