[2.1] Civic Trait Elimination

[Ancillary]

Btw the Pro Barbaric Despoilers Lobby just convinced me, it's indeed a useful trait. But the disappointment over the broken mechanic sits deep.

To provide some balance: Everyone's mentioning the positive side effect of Barbaric Despoilers--the Adaptability tree--but hardly anyone has noted the negative side effect--that you have to go militarist and deal with that faction.

 

[Sheriff Godwin Law]

Agrarian Idyll 13
Aristocratic Elite 12
Beacon of Liberty 12
Citizen Service 16
Corporate Dominion 16
Cutthroat Politics 15
Distinguished Admiralty 12
Environmentalist 14
Functional Architecture 11
Idealistic Foundation 10
Imperial Cult 6
Inward Perfection 21
Meritocracy 14
Mining Guilds 28
Nationalistic Zeal 4
Parliamentary System 14
Shadow Council 0 (-2)
Slaver Guilds 16
Technocracy 15 (+1)
Fanatic Purifiers 15
Mechanist 22
Syncretic Evolution 16
Post-Apocalyptic 7
Barbaric Despoilers 4

Killing Shadow Council for all the reasons listed. And I'll throw some love at technocracy.

In a game where every strategy involves bee-lining to the right techs, Technocracy is the kind of meat and potatoes civic that quietly puts in the time without being flashy.

 

[InvisibleBison]

New Agrarian Idyll 13
Aristocratic Elite 12
Beacon of Liberty 12
Citizen Service 16
Corporate Dominion 16
Cutthroat Politics 15
Distinguished Admiralty 12
Environmentalist 12 (-2)
Functional Architecture 11
Idealistic Foundation 10
Imperial Cult 6
Inward Perfection 21
Meritocracy 14
Mining Guilds 28
Nationalistic Zeal 4
Parliamentary System 14
Slaver Guilds 16
Fanatic Purifiers 15
Mechanist 22
Syncretic Evolution 16
Post-Apocalyptic 7
Barbaric Despoilers 5 (+1)

If you intend to play a warmongering conqueror, Barbaric Despoilers is all upside. Versatility is great and the Despoilation CB gives you a nice bit of cash whenever you conquer some territory. You're never going to have any significant diplomatic relations with anyone else anyway, so the opinion penalty is irrelevant, and while the raiding stance is bad you can just not use it.

Environmentalist gives a small reduction to a small penalty. It's never going to increase your mineral income by more than a few percent. Take Mining Guilds or Slaver Guilds instead.

 

[Sigma 582]

(But then we’ll all just upvote Slaver Guilds which almost is Mining Guilds 2: Mine Harder)

Like I said earlier, Slaver Guilds is not a no-brainer. You get 10% food and minerals off tiles (assuming all food and mineral tiles are worked by slaves), but you could get the same 10% via Syncretic while being able to spec your master race into leader-related stuff and/or unity/research from the beginning. This comes at a cost of added micro though, so is not suitable for everyone. Alternatively, Inward Perfection gives you faster pop growth, and more pops produce more stuff; more unity unlock traditions faster, and some of them boost your economy too. These effects are hard to compare directly, but I tend to think that bonuses of IP outweigh SG.

Agrarian Idyll 13
Aristocratic Elite 12
Beacon of Liberty 12
Citizen Service 16
Corporate Dominion 16
Cutthroat Politics 15
Distinguished Admiralty 12
Environmentalist 12
Functional Architecture 11
Idealistic Foundation 8 (-2)
Imperial Cult 6
Inward Perfection 21
Meritocracy 14
Mining Guilds 28
Nationalistic Zeal 4
Parliamentary System 14
Slaver Guilds 16
Technocracy 15
Fanatic Purifiers 15
Mechanist 22
Syncretic Evolution 16
Post-Apocalyptic 7
Barbaric Despoilers 6 (+1)

I disagree with downvoting despoilers. Adaptability is so freaking good that I even agree to deal with militarists. A good option to alleviate their impact is to limit their share by either taking Fanatic something as second ethic, or taking Spiritualist as 3rd. Weak trait on the master race can also help; non-weak xenos or subspecies should be enslaved in the mines to have no political power.

Idealistic foundation is RP fluff which doesn't add much real value. There are many ways to increase pop happiness, so 5% buff is hardly worth a civic slot.

 

[avsbes]

Agrarian Idyll 13
Aristocratic Elite 12
Beacon of Liberty 12
Citizen Service 16
Corporate Dominion 16
Cutthroat Politics 15
Distinguished Admiralty 12
Environmentalist 12
Functional Architecture 11
Idealistic Foundation 6 (-2)
Imperial Cult 6
Inward Perfection 21
Meritocracy 14
Mining Guilds 28
Nationalistic Zeal 4
Parliamentary System 14
Slaver Guilds 16
Technocracy 15
Fanatic Purifiers 15
Mechanist 23 (+1)
Syncretic Evolution 16
Post-Apocalyptic 7
Barbaric Despoilers 6

Mechanist gives you a decent boost to your economy and also gives you a headstart to Synth Ascension which boosts your economy even more.

dealistic Foundation is imo worthelss, cause the Bonus is way to small to really matter in the earlygame while being useless in the lategame cause there are enough other ways to get the happiness of species that need high happiness up.

 

[avsbes]

New Agrarian Idyll 13
Aristocratic Elite 12
Beacon of Liberty 12
Citizen Service 16
Corporate Dominion 16
Cutthroat Politics 15
Distinguished Admiralty 12
Environmentalist 12 (-2)
Functional Architecture 11
Idealistic Foundation 10
Imperial Cult 6
Inward Perfection 21
Meritocracy 14
Mining Guilds 28
Nationalistic Zeal 4
Parliamentary System 14
Slaver Guilds 16
Fanatic Purifiers 15
Mechanist 22
Syncretic Evolution 16
Post-Apocalyptic 7
Barbaric Despoilers 5 (+1)

If you intend to play a warmongering conqueror, Barbaric Despoilers is all upside. Versatility is great and the Despoilation CB gives you a nice bit of cash whenever you conquer some territory. You're never going to have any significant diplomatic relations with anyone else anyway, so the opinion penalty is irrelevant, and while the raiding stance is bad you can just not use it.

Environmentalist gives a small reduction to a small penalty. It's never going to increase your mineral income by more than a few percent. Take Mining Guilds or Slaver Guilds instead.

Although Environmentalist might be a lot more worth it in the next patch

 

[bobucles]

You get 10% food and minerals off tiles (assuming all food and mineral tiles are worked by slaves)

That's a pretty safe bet, since food and mineral pops are automatically enslaved. However it suffers the same problem as mining guilds, namely that it's the same (if heavily diluted) flavor of a non optional option. Mineral growth is core to the game so it'll always be a strong perk, but it isn't much of a fun one.

Adaptability is so freaking good

This 100%. The real bonus is unlocking those mineral farms, they are nothing short of empire defining. That will change once the upcoming economy overhaul means you can no longer abuse capital adjacency, but until then the first tradition tree to max out is indisputably mineral farming. Try it, surround all your capitals with farms and you'll wonder how you ever built empires without it.

It's a shame that Feudal Society got shot down. I don't think it's a bad civic, per se. In terms of creating a unique gameplay style it does a very good job. The central problem has more to do with "vassal empires" being a terrible game experience. It's almost universally better to claim territory for your own rather than deal with jerkwad AIs, so why would you want vassals to be more annoying then they already are? I hope the update makes vassals better.

 

[Vynlanesh]

Agrarian Idyll 13
Aristocratic Elite 12
Beacon of Liberty 12
Citizen Service 16
Corporate Dominion 16
Cutthroat Politics 15
Distinguished Admiralty 12
Environmentalist 12
Functional Architecture 11
Idealistic Foundation 6
Imperial Cult 6
Inward Perfection 21
Meritocracy 14
Mining Guilds 28
Nationalistic Zeal 4
Parliamentary System 14
Slaver Guilds 16
Technocracy 15
Fanatic Purifiers 15
Mechanist 23
Syncretic Evolution 17 (+1)
Post-Apocalyptic 7
Barbaric Despoilers 4 (-2)

 

[r3xm0rt1s]

Agrarian Idyll 13
Aristocratic Elite 12
Beacon of Liberty 12
Citizen Service 16
Corporate Dominion 16
Cutthroat Politics 15
Distinguished Admiralty 12
Environmentalist 12
Functional Architecture 11
Idealistic Foundation 6
Imperial Cult 6
Inward Perfection 21
Meritocracy 14
Mining Guilds 28
Nationalistic Zeal 4
Parliamentary System 14
Slaver Guilds 16
Technocracy 15
Fanatic Purifiers 16 (+1)
Mechanist 23
Syncretic Evolution 15 (-2)
Post-Apocalyptic 7
Barbaric Despoilers 4

Fleet capacity, fire-rate, cheap expansion, dealing with xenos properly.

And I would never get to see a victory screen if I was managing more than one species. My patience is not unlimited.

 

[Little Red]

Agrarian Idyll 13
Aristocratic Elite 12
Beacon of Liberty 12
Citizen Service 16
Corporate Dominion 16
Cutthroat Politics 15
Distinguished Admiralty 12
Environmentalist 12
Functional Architecture 11
Idealistic Foundation 6
Imperial Cult 6
Inward Perfection 21
Meritocracy 14
Mining Guilds 28
Nationalistic Zeal 4
Parliamentary System 14
Slaver Guilds 16
Technocracy 15
Fanatic Purifiers 17 (+1)
Mechanist 23
Syncretic Evolution 15
Post-Apocalyptic 7
Barbaric Despoilers 2 (-2)

 

[EuropaCam]

Agrarian Idyll 13
Aristocratic Elite 12
Beacon of Liberty 12
Citizen Service 16
Corporate Dominion 16
Cutthroat Politics 15
Distinguished Admiralty 12
Environmentalist 12
Functional Architecture 11
Idealistic Foundation 6
Imperial Cult 6
Inward Perfection 22 (+1)
Meritocracy 14
Mining Guilds 28
Nationalistic Zeal 4
Parliamentary System 14
Slaver Guilds 16
Technocracy 15
Fanatic Purifiers 17
Mechanist 23
Syncretic Evolution 15
Post-Apocalyptic 7
Barbaric Despoilers 0 (-2) [Eliminated]

Sometimes I just want to sit in a corner and watch the galaxy burn, and Inwards Perfection is great for that.

And I just don't think Barbaric Despoilers is all that useful.

 

[metalosse]

Rip BD.

I guess -15% food consumption, +15% food, 1 trait point, -15% gene modification cost, +30% unity and insane pop growth without major economic cost wasn't enough.

 

[Savior59]

Agrarian Idyll 13
Aristocratic Elite 12
Beacon of Liberty 12
Citizen Service 16
Corporate Dominion 17 (+1)
Cutthroat Politics 15
Distinguished Admiralty 12
Environmentalist 12
Functional Architecture 11
Idealistic Foundation 6
Imperial Cult 6
Inward Perfection 22
Meritocracy 14
Mining Guilds 28
Nationalistic Zeal 4
Parliamentary System 14
Slaver Guilds 16
Technocracy 15
Fanatic Purifiers 15 (-2)
Mechanist 23
Syncretic Evolution 15
Post-Apocalyptic 7

Promoting Corporate Dominion because it just provides so much in one Civic. Free Technology, bonus energy, and the ability to save minerals when Colonizing planets is huge in the early game. It's pretty hard to not to pick this civic for me.

Putting down Fanatic Purifiers, while the benefits of this civic are really nice, it causes your game to be feast or famine. Either you snowball out of control or you end up being eliminated early, very rarely does something inbetween happen. Additionally, I dislike the lack of diplomacy that comes with it.

 

[serpentskirt]

I guess -15% food consumption, +15% food, 1 trait point, -15% gene modification cost, +30% unity and insane pop growth without major economic cost wasn't enough.

Mayhap people were expecting the same sense of pride and accomplishment as provided by DA and were utterly disappointed.

 

[Ancillary]

Rip BD.

I guess -15% food consumption, +15% food, 1 trait point, -15% gene modification cost, +30% unity and insane pop growth without major economic cost wasn't enough.

We're reaching the point where all of the downright bad civics have already been knocked out. Also, I think you're going to see a bias against civics that aren't awful, but are clearly inferior to some other civic in the thing they do well; Functional Architecture and Imperial Cult have this same problem. If you really want to see that Adaptability tree, Inward Perfection or Fanatic Purifiers will give you that, plus a bunch of other neat buffs.

 

[metalosse]

We're reaching the point where all of the downright bad civics have already been knocked out. Also, I think you're going to see a bias against civics that aren't awful, but are clearly inferior to some other civic in the thing they do well; Functional Architecture and Imperial Cult have this same problem. If you really want to see that Adaptability tree, Inward Perfection or Fanatic Purifiers will give you that, plus a bunch of other neat buffs.

Plus a big bunch of maluses, that goes from pacifism to gang bang if unlucky.

And xenophobia.

 

[Sute]{h]

Agrarian Idyll 14 (+1)
Aristocratic Elite 12
Beacon of Liberty 12
Citizen Service 16
Corporate Dominion 17
Cutthroat Politics 15
Distinguished Admiralty 12
Environmentalist 12
Functional Architecture 11
Idealistic Foundation 6
Imperial Cult 6
Inward Perfection 22
Meritocracy 14
Mining Guilds 28
Nationalistic Zeal 2 (-2)
Parliamentary System 14
Slaver Guilds 16
Technocracy 15
Fanatic Purifiers 15
Mechanist 23
Syncretic Evolution 15
Post-Apocalyptic 7

Agarian Idyll for all my pacifist needs. Nationalistic Zeal because I've never really used it.

 

[Sigma 582]

Despoilers gone before Idealistic Foundation and Imperial Cult, what is that with you people?

 

[Ancillary]

Plus a big bunch of maluses, that goes from pacifism to gang bang if unlucky.

And xenophobia.

I concede the gang bang point. For some reason, I thought Barbarian Despoilers had a -200 relationship penalty with other empires, but after going to the wiki I see it's actually -50. So normal diplomacy is at least possible as long as you stick to Authoritarian.

 

[bobucles]

Despoilers gone before Idealistic Foundation and Imperial Cult, what is that with you people?

Sometimes things can be so bad people don't even remember they exist.