[2.1] Civic Trait Elimination

[Sweawm]

Agrarian Idyll 12
Aristocratic Elite 12
Beacon of Liberty 12
Citizen Service 15
Corporate Dominion 16
Cutthroat Politics 15
Distinguished Admiralty 12
Efficient Bureaucracy 1
Environmentalist 14
Feudal Society 8 (-2)
Functional Architecture 11 (+1)
Idealistic Foundation 10
Imperial Cult 6
Inward Perfection 18
Meritocracy 13
Mining Guilds 27
Nationalistic Zeal 4
Parliamentary System 14
Philosopher King 8
Shadow Council 10
Slaver Guilds 15
Technocracy 15
Fanatic Purifiers 15
Mechanist 19
Syncretic Evolution 15
Post-Apocalyptic 7
Barbaric Despoilers 4

 

[serpentskirt]

Day 3
Agrarian Idyll 12
Aristocratic Elite 12
Beacon of Liberty 12
Citizen Service 15
Corporate Dominion 16
Cutthroat Politics 15
Distinguished Admiralty 12
Efficient Bureaucracy 0 (-2) PURGED
Environmentalist 14
Feudal Society 8
Functional Architecture 11
Idealistic Foundation 10
Imperial Cult 6
Inward Perfection 18
Meritocracy 13
Mining Guilds 27
Nationalistic Zeal 4
Parliamentary System 14
Philosopher King 8
Shadow Council 10
Slaver Guilds 15
Technocracy 15
Fanatic Purifiers 15
Mechanist 19
Syncretic Evolution 15
Post-Apocalyptic 7
Barbaric Despoilers 5 (+1)

I'm not accepting the fact that BD deserves elimination before some of the plain weak or RP civics. To convert these words into actions, EB gets finishing blow. It is super effective!!!

 

[GloatingSwine]

Agrarian Idyll 12
Aristocratic Elite 12
Beacon of Liberty 12
Citizen Service 15
Corporate Dominion 16
Cutthroat Politics 15
Distinguished Admiralty 12
Environmentalist 14
Feudal Society 8
Functional Architecture 11
Idealistic Foundation 10
Imperial Cult 6
Inward Perfection 18
Meritocracy 13
Mining Guilds 27
Nationalistic Zeal 4
Parliamentary System 14
Philosopher King 6 (-2)
Shadow Council 10
Slaver Guilds 15
Technocracy 15
Fanatic Purifiers 15
Mechanist 19
Syncretic Evolution 15
Post-Apocalyptic 7
Barbaric Despoilers 6 (+1)

Ruler skill levels are sort of nice, but not worth a civic slot, just let them benefit from other skill level bonuses and be done with it.

Adaptability is a straight up better tradition than Diplomacy. All of the things in it are practical and useful for almost every empire. Swapping the worst tradition for such a universally good one is well worth a civic slot on its own.

 

[Silens]

Agrarian Idyll 12
Aristocratic Elite 12
Beacon of Liberty 12
Citizen Service 15
Corporate Dominion 16
Cutthroat Politics 15
Distinguished Admiralty 12
Environmentalist 14
Feudal Society 8
Functional Architecture 11
Idealistic Foundation 10
Imperial Cult 6
Inward Perfection 18
Meritocracy 13
Mining Guilds 28 (+1)
Nationalistic Zeal 4
Parliamentary System 14
Philosopher King 4 (-2)
Shadow Council 10
Slaver Guilds 15
Technocracy 15
Fanatic Purifiers 15
Mechanist 19
Syncretic Evolution 15
Post-Apocalyptic 7
Barbaric Despoilers 6

 

[4o1XOHBV6In4]

Agrarian Idyll 12
Aristocratic Elite 12
Beacon of Liberty 12
Citizen Service 15
Corporate Dominion 16
Cutthroat Politics 15
Distinguished Admiralty 12
Environmentalist 14
Feudal Society 6 (-2)
Functional Architecture 11
Idealistic Foundation 10
Imperial Cult 6
Inward Perfection 18
Meritocracy 13
Mining Guilds 28
Nationalistic Zeal 4
Parliamentary System 14
Philosopher King 4
Shadow Council 10
Slaver Guilds 15
Technocracy 15
Fanatic Purifiers 15
Mechanist 20 (+1)
Syncretic Evolution 15
Post-Apocalyptic 7
Barbaric Despoilers 6

Mining guilds will take this hands down. The battle for the top 5, though seems really interesting.

Which is why I'm already setting up one of my favorites for that, Mechanist, to make it there. The name of the game is snowballing hard and double pop growth lets you do that.

As for what to eliminate, most of the low rated civics at least give something of (limited) value, I don't think the same can be said for Feudal Society. That's just straight up +0 for a civic slot at any point in the game. That is if you're not using vassals, which is the best case scenario. Because the world in which I take the civic without using vassals is still better than the world in which I use vassals and having the civic doesn't change that.

 

[Vonuggbin]

Agrarian Idyll 12
Aristocratic Elite 12
Beacon of Liberty 12
Citizen Service 16 (+1)
Corporate Dominion 16
Cutthroat Politics 15
Distinguished Admiralty 12
Environmentalist 14
Feudal Society 4 (-2)
Functional Architecture 11
Idealistic Foundation 10
Imperial Cult 6
Inward Perfection 18
Meritocracy 13
Mining Guilds 28
Nationalistic Zeal 4
Parliamentary System 14
Philosopher King 4
Shadow Council 10
Slaver Guilds 15
Technocracy 15
Fanatic Purifiers 15
Mechanist 20
Syncretic Evolution 15
Post-Apocalyptic 7
Barbaric Despoilers 6

Feudal Society is only good for RP and because of the AI it's not even fun.

Citizen Service is great. Would you like to know more?

 

[Jabby]

Agrarian Idyll 12
Aristocratic Elite 12
Beacon of Liberty 12
Citizen Service 16
Corporate Dominion 16
Cutthroat Politics 15
Distinguished Admiralty 12
Environmentalist 14
Feudal Society 4
Functional Architecture 11
Idealistic Foundation 10
Imperial Cult 6
Inward Perfection 18
Meritocracy 14 (+1)
Mining Guilds 28
Nationalistic Zeal 4
Parliamentary System 14
Philosopher King 2 (-2)
Shadow Council 10
Slaver Guilds 15
Technocracy 15
Fanatic Purifiers 15
Mechanist 20
Syncretic Evolution 15
Post-Apocalyptic 7
Barbaric Despoilers 6

 

[Jabby]

Citizen Service is great. Would you like to know more?

Yes pls

 

[sortulv]

Agrarian Idyll 12
Aristocratic Elite 12
Beacon of Liberty 12
Citizen Service 16
Corporate Dominion 16
Cutthroat Politics 15
Distinguished Admiralty 12
Environmentalist 14
Feudal Society 4
Functional Architecture 11
Idealistic Foundation 10
Imperial Cult 6
Inward Perfection 18
Meritocracy 14
Mining Guilds 28
Nationalistic Zeal 4
Parliamentary System 14
Philosopher King 2
Shadow Council 10
Slaver Guilds 15
Technocracy 15
Fanatic Purifiers 15
Mechanist 21 (+1)
Syncretic Evolution 15
Post-Apocalyptic 7
Barbaric Despoilers 4 (-2)

Despoilers don't help you win - if you want the pops, you take the worlds.
Mechanist means you are very close to no longer caring about habitability for food/minerals.

 

[Methone]

Agrarian Idyll 13 (+1)
Aristocratic Elite 12
Beacon of Liberty 12
Citizen Service 16
Corporate Dominion 16
Cutthroat Politics 15
Distinguished Admiralty 12
Environmentalist 14
Feudal Society 2 (-2)
Functional Architecture 11
Idealistic Foundation 10
Imperial Cult 6
Inward Perfection 18
Meritocracy 14
Mining Guilds 28
Nationalistic Zeal 4
Parliamentary System 14
Philosopher King 2
Shadow Council 10
Slaver Guilds 15
Technocracy 15
Fanatic Purifiers 15
Mechanist 21
Syncretic Evolution 15
Post-Apocalyptic 7
Barbaric Despoilers 4

Idyll might not be the BEST, but it's damn good. Compared to Feudal Society, whose best use is to give you the special 'Feudal Empire' government type for roleplay.

 

[sortulv]

Compared to Feudal Society, whose best use is to give you the special 'Feudal Empire' government type for roleplay.

I really want to defend feudal society, but not within the rules as written. To me, the best use is to fill up low-value parts of space without spending any influence on it.
(It would have been a lot stronger if newly created vassals didn't have to re-survey the stars around them before building starbases there if the overlord already had scanned them).

 

[GloatingSwine]

Despoilers don't help you win - if you want the pops, you take the worlds.

Adaptability helps you win though.

It reduces the tiles you need to spend on food by reducing usage and increasing output, gives you habitability, and later on gives you an extra trait point for a bit more optimisation and cheaper terraforming for mass Gaia-forming.

The mineral from farms is just a cherry on the top.

If you can have it, it’s the most powerful and useful tradition, and Barbaric Despoilers do get it and because they can be Authoritarian they can combine it with early slavery bonuses.

Feudal Society would be good if the AI weren’t dumb as a bag of hammers and didn’t lose its econ bonuses off of Ensign. Feudal has all the problems that made everyone hate sectors for so long.

 

[bobucles]

I'd put another point into mining guilds but honestly I think that's more an argument for removing them than for keeping them. The power of extra minerals is so vital, so MANDATORY to gameplay that it ends up blocking out the reason to pick anything else. I mean, why even have other choices? Just give me two mining guilds, please.

I think choices like Inward Perfection make for really good civics. They change your empire in profound ways that alter the overarching strategy for your faction. I think more civics could benefit from being designed as tradeoffs where you lose one option to gain a strength. It adds more weight and consequence to the choice, but the combination of good and bad makes it less of a pure bonus.

 

[Pootino]

Agrarian Idyll 13
Aristocratic Elite 12
Beacon of Liberty 12
Citizen Service 16
Corporate Dominion 16
Cutthroat Politics 15
Distinguished Admiralty 12
Environmentalist 14
Feudal Society 2
Functional Architecture 11
Idealistic Foundation 10
Imperial Cult 6
Inward Perfection 18
Meritocracy 14
Mining Guilds 28
Nationalistic Zeal 4
Parliamentary System 14
Philosopher King 0 (-2) RETIRED
Shadow Council 10
Slaver Guilds 15
Technocracy 15
Fanatic Purifiers 15
Mechanist 22 (+1)
Syncretic Evolution 15
Post-Apocalyptic 7
Barbaric Despoilers 4

Philosopher King is only useful for synth ascension monarchies or rp, otherwise the leader is gonna die before even reaching the max level.

 

[Lord William]

Agrarian Idyll 13
Aristocratic Elite 12
Beacon of Liberty 12
Citizen Service 16
Corporate Dominion 16
Cutthroat Politics 15
Distinguished Admiralty 12
Environmentalist 14
Feudal Society 0 (-2) ELIMINATED
Functional Architecture 11
Idealistic Foundation 10
Imperial Cult 6
Inward Perfection 19 (+1)
Meritocracy 14
Mining Guilds 28
Nationalistic Zeal 4
Parliamentary System 14
Shadow Council 10
Slaver Guilds 15
Technocracy 15
Fanatic Purifiers 15
Mechanist 22
Syncretic Evolution 15
Post-Apocalyptic 7
Barbaric Despoilers 4

Time for Philosopher King to go. At least Feudal Society changes how you play (in theory), whereas Philosopher King is just (mechanically) bland and weak. I do like the flavour, I suppose. Inward Perfection is just very powerful and you can definitely notice the difference when playing with it.

EDIT: Wow, got ninja'd. Fixed, time for Feudal Society to go then.

 

[GloatingSwine]

I'd put another point into mining guilds but honestly I think that's more an argument for removing them than for keeping them. The power of extra minerals is so vital, so MANDATORY to gameplay that it ends up blocking out the reason to pick anything else. I mean, why even have other choices? Just give me two mining guilds, please.

I think there’s a reasonable argument for Mechanist to get promoted off the top as well. After Mining Guilds it’s probably the winningest.

(But then we’ll all just upvote Slaver Guilds which almost is Mining Guilds 2: Mine Harder)

 

[Ancillary]

Agrarian Idyll 13
Aristocratic Elite 12
Beacon of Liberty 12
Citizen Service 16
Corporate Dominion 16
Cutthroat Politics 15
Distinguished Admiralty 12
Environmentalist 14
Functional Architecture 11
Idealistic Foundation 10
Imperial Cult 6
Inward Perfection 20 (+1)
Meritocracy 14
Mining Guilds 28
Nationalistic Zeal 4
Parliamentary System 14
Shadow Council 8 (-2)
Slaver Guilds 15
Technocracy 15
Fanatic Purifiers 15
Mechanist 22
Syncretic Evolution 15
Post-Apocalyptic 7
Barbaric Despoilers 4

Shadow Council has gone mostly unscathed so far. I think it's time for that to change. In the game's current state, ruler traits rarely matter so much that you should waste influence picking them under any circumstances.

Inward Perfection is great. I just love focusing on internal development, and Le Guin is going to make that part of the game 100 times better.

 

[bobucles]

(But then we’ll all just upvote Slaver Guilds which almost is Mining Guilds 2: Mine Harder)

Yeah, pretty much. I think it's too much to expect other civics to compete against the raw power of minerals. If they had to be redone I think it'd be something more like:
- Mining guilds: The empire makes extensive use of contractors for its mining operations. Mining bases cost energy instead of minerals to produce.
It's still a pretty major change to gameplay and will give you a big boost if used right.

The trade system is getting a major overhaul in the big patch. Instead of being raw straight up buffs, the Guild civics could offer an advantage for trading minerals or slaves. It's less of a direct bonus and benefits a more specific style of play. Perhaps that's what a civic should aim to be? It represents a mindset of the populace and is a form of strategy for building their empire. The ethic choices are big picture stuff, while the civics reach deeper into the tactical level. For example one authoritarian may prefer to get their slaves as battle trophies and thus excels at quashing unrest, while another may prefer to get them from gigantic slave markets and can always snag a good deal. They're both slavers, with civics representing the stylistic choice of how they do it.

Anyway,

Agrarian Idyll 13
Aristocratic Elite 12
Beacon of Liberty 12
Citizen Service 16
Corporate Dominion 16
Cutthroat Politics 15
Distinguished Admiralty 12
Environmentalist 14
Functional Architecture 11
Idealistic Foundation 10
Imperial Cult 6
Inward Perfection 21 (+1)
Meritocracy 14
Mining Guilds 28
Nationalistic Zeal 4
Parliamentary System 14
Shadow Council 6 (-2)
Slaver Guilds 15
Technocracy 15
Fanatic Purifiers 15
Mechanist 22
Syncretic Evolution 15
Post-Apocalyptic 7
Barbaric Despoilers 4

I love the Inward Perfection style. It's different from any other style of play in Stellaris, even if it can be frustrating at times. Shadow Council gets the whack because it looks so good, and I get tempted all the time. After all it saves influence so it must be good right? Wrong! In order to get any use out of it I have to spend influence. I hate that.

 

[MojoOverflow]

Agrarian Idyll 13
Aristocratic Elite 12
Beacon of Liberty 12
Citizen Service 16
Corporate Dominion 16
Cutthroat Politics 15
Distinguished Admiralty 12
Environmentalist 14
Functional Architecture 11
Idealistic Foundation 10
Imperial Cult 6
Inward Perfection 21
Meritocracy 14
Mining Guilds 28
Nationalistic Zeal 4
Parliamentary System 14
Shadow Council 4 (-2)
Slaver Guilds 15
Technocracy 15
Fanatic Purifiers 15
Mechanist 22
Syncretic Evolution 16 (+1)
Post-Apocalyptic 7
Barbaric Despoilers 4

Syncretic Evolution just works well with to specialized species.
Shadow Council is just really minor if you express it as influence per month gain.

Btw the Pro Barbaric Despoilers Lobby just convinced me, it's indeed a useful trait. But the disappointment over the broken mechanic sits deep.

 

[Archon87]

Agrarian Idyll 13
Aristocratic Elite 12
Beacon of Liberty 12
Citizen Service 16
Corporate Dominion 16
Cutthroat Politics 15
Distinguished Admiralty 12
Environmentalist 14
Functional Architecture 11
Idealistic Foundation 10
Imperial Cult 6
Inward Perfection 21
Meritocracy 14
Mining Guilds 28
Nationalistic Zeal 4
Parliamentary System 14
Shadow Council 2 (-2)
Slaver Guilds 16 (+1)
Technocracy 15
Fanatic Purifiers 15
Mechanist 22
Syncretic Evolution 16
Post-Apocalyptic 7
Barbaric Despoilers 4

I'll jump on the hate train for Shadow Council here. It seems like such a good deal, but it only comes into play in elections, and in order to save you the most influence and be the most impactful, you need to be a dictatorship. That way you're saving 150 influence in order to pick the next ruler, which is nice if there's only one good option on the list. But elections (especially in a dictatorship) come up infrequently enough that the civic does nothing most of the time.

Slaver Guilds is really good if you plan on being a dedicated slaver, 10% extra resources from slaves across the board is nothing to sneeze at. This civic is pretty much required to optimize your slaver empire.