1st Serious WC Attempt Failed. Pointers for Ottoderp WC Needed.

[Dominion]

You said "standing forces will suffice without placating".

Yea, because you sit at 75-80% when you get them.

Same dynasty -5%
Opinion of overlord -20%
Diplomatic Reputation -9% to -16%

Standing forces suffice

And using the RM bonus as a factor for anything is an irrelevant note to make since they break it once they get above 50% and you only care about getting them below that threshhold.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Yea, because you sit at 75-80% when you get them.

Same dynasty -5%
Opinion of overlord -20%
Diplomatic Reputation -9% to -16%

Standing forces suffice

And using the RM bonus as a factor for anything is an irrelevant note since they break it once they get above 50% and you only care about getting them below that threshhold.

Same dynasty adds another 25% LD to tick down.

By your math, if you're getting 50-100% LD from province defections players are going to be waiting a LITTLE more than 20 years to annex Persia.

It's not a big enough deal that it's worth tying that slot for a long time. It has a bit of the same sucker bet feel that PUs after absolutism give off where you tie up a slot for > 50 years (when you can have + annex several vassals of significant size in same timeframe with same slot). If we're carrying Persia for > 30 years, we're behind generic 100 dev vassal feeding + annexation. Persia via rebels is only worth with support rebel CB (no event LD), actual reconquest, or march de-march.

 

[Dominion]

Same dynasty is a temp modifier and ticks down. Same for defection. And I did mention turning them into a march to get rid of temp modifiers, so time is not an argument either.

Are we really going to play a game of semantics where every possible point and implication has been covered by my first two comments?

 

[Tyriion]

If you're not using support rebel CB to bypass LD there is no way. Base LD from 300 development is 75%. That's if they + your other vassals have 0 regiment and no recent events. Slap on > 100% LD from events/defections and you're going to waiting a while to annex. Grant province got nerfed into non-viability as a solo LD management tool. There are better ways to approach this:

So you can avoid all LD by using support rebels. This was my original question.

Got about 300 hours now, so some things I don't know yet

 

[gia257]

His problem was that you take them per core return or have rebels defect to you, neither of which is going to lower a vassal's LD, meaning they end up with sth around 250 dev and ~80% LD

200 positive opinion doesn't counter that. If you let rebels do the work for you you can get a fully grown Persia during your first war against Mamluks and at that point you're too small.

It doesn't matter though. Vassals can't declare independence while you're at war and even if you're not constantly at war, nobody's going to support their independence since they need a certain base lvl of standing forces compared to yours before even thinking about supporting.
And that's not even the point at which they declare, which is way higher.

Maybe values got changed, but it used to be the ~80% of your own + allies forces to support and the standard DoW ratio to declare Indepence.

Long story short: If you get a full Persia from rebels they'll be unhappy for a short time, but it doesn't bother you.

on my version of the game, if rebels make provinces defect to your vassal, the vassal gets an nearly infinite "events and decision" malus that made it not worth the defection in the first place

ok just read the rest of the thread, mystery solved

 

[Lord Zsinj]

OK, take 2.

1470s, got all my cores back, all the Byzantine land, Zeta & Kosovo from Serbia (Hungary had taken the rest), a 3PM Ragusa as vassal.

Up north Crimea is a vassal with Azov, Theodosia & Matrega. Circassia is a vassal with all ICC shit land except 2 Georgian provinces. From QQ I got my core and a corridor to Tabriz, which I released to form Persia, which with no intervention from me has a border 2 provinces from the Indus.

I'm sitting on 2200 Ducats even after hitting army and navy force limit and building Temples in 5 tax or higher provinces, marketplaces in high TP, and Workshops in Copper, Cloth & Silk provinces.

AE is not an issue, Coalition consists of OPM AQ that I have not bothered putting down, anyone else pissed enough is on truce.

Only issue I see is I have not met first war goals against Mameluke after 2 wars.

So as I see it I have to put the pedal to the metal through the Levant and Egypt, and jump off from Persia and bite deep into India.
Still going to cut off Muscovy, but that is a side show between those 2 pushes.

Thoughts?

 

[Dominion]

If you have too much cash, use more mercs. You're going to run out of MP soon otherwise.

 

[Lord Zsinj]

Those Ducats will vanish once another couple provinces embrace The Ren.

Plus I don't want to make the mistake of last try by putting myself into a debt spiral by foolishly loaning up to back to back embrace.

 

[Dominion]

Your call. Aside from the cash sitting in your pockets, it'd be nice to have screens (should you plan on giving updates in the future). Description sounds good.

 

[Lord Zsinj]

Yeah I got to set that up. Is there a how to somewhere? I'm not as computer savvy as I used to be.

 

[Dominion]

F12 > Steam\userdata\59458480\760\remote\xxxxx\screenshots
Or
Print > open Paint > ctrl+V > save as

Upload by opening imgur.com, then drag&drop

EDIT: Yea, or steam. How could I forget the steam library

 

[PhoenixG]

You can always F12 upload to steam. You can view it from your steam activity.

Those Ducats will vanish once another couple provinces embrace The Ren.

Plus I don't want to make the mistake of last try by putting myself into a debt spiral by foolishly loaning up to back to back embrace.

Having loans isn't bad, it's having too much loans is bad. If you pass 50% of your max loans count, you should start worrying. But below that isn't that bad.

 

[Lord Zsinj]

Before I abandoned I was paying 30D/month with a positive income st 50% maintenance of 20D. Any serious war would have put me under, as I already had 2 dustups with Spain/PLC that helped put me there above and beyond loans for embracing institutions.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

You can always F12 upload to steam. You can view it from your steam activity.



Having loans isn't bad, it's having too much loans is bad. If you pass 50% of your max loans count, you should start worrying. But below that isn't that bad.

Loans are always a balancing act. Using them can raise your potential to expand, but most players take loans due to bad micromanagement rather than to make an investment that overpowers the interest cost.

Basically, if you're taking loans you should be *significantly* out-expanding the position I posted earlier in this thread, where I took no loans and only briefly needed mercs. As you're a top tier player *and* you micro carefully you could indeed loan and out-progress my pace, but until players are able to get the most out of their resources loans give the risk of spiraling costs up without providing the requisite utility.

Every resource in the game has theoretical optimized usage. Using loans well requires you to play closer to that optimized usage...I think most WC players forget that because they take their own basic, minute-to-minute play to get the most out of resources for granted.