1st Serious WC Attempt Failed. Pointers for Ottoderp WC Needed.

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Dominion

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Usually to get Persia you release it and just cross your fingers.

Sometimes people get impatient, sometimes rebels aren't cooperative, in both cases you can go to war with the reconquest cb.
Still extremely cheap for that amount of dev.

But in most cases their provinces will just defect to you.
 

Tyriion

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Usually to get Persia you release it and just cross your fingers.

Sometimes people get impatient, sometimes rebels aren't cooperative, in both cases you can go to war with the reconquest cb.
Still extremely cheap for that amount of dev.

But in most cases their provinces will just defect to you.

But don't you get huge LD that way? Iraq is over 60% with 2 provinces being swapped due to rebels
 

Dominion

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... so?

It's not like anyone's gonna support them and with the speed you're blobbing with you're going to have them under your belt in 20 years tops.

Or just turn them into a march so they're below 50LD instantly. Whatever floats your boat.
 

gia257

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... so?

It's not like anyone's gonna support them and with the speed you're blobbing with you're going to have them under your belt in 20 years tops.

Or just turn them into a march so they're below 50LD instantly. Whatever floats your boat.
wait turning to march deletes events and decision? I just reconquest'd takes two wars at most.
 

PhoenixG

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imo having syria, iraq and Persia is overkill. Some of those province are quite high developed. Making keeping them under control quite hard. Besides having those dev for yourself is also nice. Also they kinda blocking your expansion route. You really should consider start integrating Syria or Iraq.
 

Dominion

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wait turning to march deletes events and decision? I just reconquest'd takes two wars at most.
His problem was that you take them per core return or have rebels defect to you, neither of which is going to lower a vassal's LD, meaning they end up with sth around 250 dev and ~80% LD

200 positive opinion doesn't counter that. If you let rebels do the work for you you can get a fully grown Persia during your first war against Mamluks and at that point you're too small.

It doesn't matter though. Vassals can't declare independence while you're at war and even if you're not constantly at war, nobody's going to support their independence since they need a certain base lvl of standing forces compared to yours before even thinking about supporting.
And that's not even the point at which they declare, which is way higher.

Maybe values got changed, but it used to be the ~80% of your own + allies forces to support and the standard DoW ratio to declare Indepence.

Long story short: If you get a full Persia from rebels they'll be unhappy for a short time, but it doesn't bother you.
 

Dominion

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Nah, your standing forces will soon suffice to integrate them without placating. Unless you feed them India, which isn't as feasible as it used to be so I'd rather not.
 

Lord Zsinj

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My Persia was all their cores with 340 dev, even with 3x their army, with my other vassals and behind on dip tech it was necessary. If nothing else it gives him a method of last resort.
 

Dominion

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Eh. Easier to conquer a bit of India and hand it over to them. Grant province lowers LD pretty massively.
 

Sinuous

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I had the same issues with huge liberty desire. I increased development with spare military points in the provinces I knew I would make a state. These were the rich coastal southern provinces. So it was more diplo to annex, but at least I'd get the benefit of richer development. I also filled out influence and admin first and enacted the policy. Persia takes forever to integrate. It's actually my least favorite part playing the Ottomans since their LD is always teetering around 50% if you are trying to use as little prestige and monarch points as possible to keep them happy. Giving them more land does work I suppose, but increases coring time. This ties up a diplomat for a really long time.
 

Dominion

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Yea, but it's free development.
 

TheMeInTeam

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Nah, your standing forces will soon suffice to integrate them without placating. Unless you feed them India, which isn't as feasible as it used to be so I'd rather not.

If you're not using support rebel CB to bypass LD there is no way. Base LD from 300 development is 75%. That's if they + your other vassals have 0 regiment and no recent events. Slap on > 100% LD from events/defections and you're going to waiting a while to annex. Grant province got nerfed into non-viability as a solo LD management tool. There are better ways to approach this:

1. Right now, making a vassal into a marge wipes all positive and negative LD modifiers that decay, so you can nope egregious levels of defection LD (and >100% LD for less than 5% of overlord's territory defection IS nonsense by any coherent standard).
2. Placate it down. Not good for > 100% events, but doable if it's smaller.
3. Just core stuff like Syria. You can't make that land trade company, it's already accepted culture due to empire rank, and you have mission claims all over it giving you 40% LA from go. You can do the same with Iraq, though IIRC I wound up getting them as a freebie OPM with vassal + force religion combo (faster annexation for same religion) then using reconquest. The two Shia religious centers took some oomph to convert w/o religious but doable eventually.

In my game Persia broke out very fast so I just fed some of it to Sunni-forced Tabarestan and cored the rest myself, no big deal. I was chasing the easy wars, especially temporarily easy wars, as a priority.
 

Dominion

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Feel free to try. Or don't.
But you can't tell me it's impossible when I'm doing it.

Especially not if your folllowup is "turn it into a march to wipe all temp modifiers".
 

PhoenixG

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My Persia was all their cores with 340 dev, even with 3x their army, with my other vassals and behind on dip tech it was necessary. If nothing else it gives him a method of last resort.
I've a rule of thumb for myself on how large a vassal can be before you need to integrate them. Around 100 dev is doable, without any placating. On 200 dev is pretty much the limit. Going higher You'll need to babysit the liberty desire when intergrate them.
 

TheMeInTeam

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Feel free to try. Or don't.
But you can't tell me it's impossible when I'm doing it.

Especially not if your folllowup is "turn it into a march to wipe all temp modifiers".

You said "standing forces will suffice without placating".

Nah, your standing forces will soon suffice to integrate them without placating. Unless you feed them India, which isn't as feasible as it used to be so I'd rather not.

Simple math demonstrates that's inconsistent with reality. With -25% LD from improved relations and royal marriage (assuming you can get one), you could be fielding 2000 regiments and Persia would still have >50% LD at 300 development. You're not getting past that without placating, developing, paying debts, or granting more provinces (which increases base LD). You can bring this down just a bit further over a long period time by spamming great power influence to increase trust, but this still isn't a ~20 year annexation of rebel defection Persia or even close.

Whatever you are doing, it is different from what you're saying here. The math doesn't support what you're saying unless you're doing something extra and not mentioning it.

I've a rule of thumb for myself on how large a vassal can be before you need to integrate them. Around 100 dev is doable, without any placating. On 200 dev is pretty much the limit. Going higher You'll need to babysit the liberty desire when intergrate them.

Largest for me in my Ottomans run was a 950 development Corfu I fed a good chunk of the HRE. It had admin/religious.

Managing that would ordinarily have been completely impractical, except for one thing: AI idiocy with debt. I had more 190% liberty desire reduction from repeatedly clearing their debt. This is a late game ploy but worth keeping in mind once you're swimming in cash.