1st Serious WC Attempt Failed. Pointers for Ottoderp WC Needed.

[fyfaendeluxe]

Some tips:
plan your wars/conquests ahead, fabricate claims in time to declare soon as you exit your current war, prioritize claiming high dev provinces for lower ae and unjustified demands
if you aren't familiar with the whole lot, have a look at the wiki for ottoman missions and what triggers them, remember to abandon missions you couldn't complete in one war (levant, egypt, iraq), you can reaquire them later when the truce is up. saves you tons of AE and dip mana
ottomans are filthy rich, you can run 50% merc inf from 1450 without breaking a sweat, does miracles for your manpower
AE is your biggest limiter at least until 1600, managing it is absolutely key
keep your prestige high and always have a +relations advisor active to burn the most AE. high prestige also gives -10% ae impact, coupled with influence ideas, its huge, even moreso in age of discovery with the 10% bonus(i'd take this first, even before your siege bonus). rotate your wars on all fronts to spread the AE evenly to let your +relations do the most work
you can ally medium-large nations that you aren't planning to attack just yet to keep their AE down(allies generate only a fraction of normal AE). this can be particularly effective in india.
Once you grow past a certain size, any country in the world will accept threaten war demands, you can abuse this hard in europe to capture key forts and such while warring in asia and africa
make your way to india and capture the coast as swiftly as possible, build manufactories in every 3.00+ trade good province in your trade chain to sustain your forcelimit.
use your whole forcelimit, coalitions won't form if you significantly outnumber the candidates.
look for good opportunities to resurrect and vassal-feed dead nations, particularly in europe.

 

[Lord Zsinj]

@Dominion - I don't think truce cycling was an issue as I was constantly at war somewhere. Except for that one coalition AE was not an issue either. And that was AE divied up between Mid East/ Levant, Balkans and Caucasus/Pontic Steppes. Too much too soon. I'll put the brakes on next time.

Things that I DO need to handle are better army comp and who to vassalize and when to integrate.

Were Influence > Admin > Quantity > Humanist a good order?

Also Dominion thank you for always giving advice in my threads, I appreciate you taking the time.

And everyone else too.

 

[pratik_maitra]

@Lord Zsinj

I made a few detailed pointers about Otto WC in some threads. Also I did my first WC (and second overall EU 4) campaign witht hem in 1.19. You can read the signatures.

After reading some of your comments I would advise to chill out and wait till 1690s to unlock Imperialism CB. It is generally optimal to get 8k-10k dev by 1700. However it is NOT mandatory. I did my TTM with just 4k dev by 1700s.

As others have pointed out start by eating the Anatolian minors and then releasing Persia as a vassal. In my run I went for a quick Russia and Iberian kill. However this is not needed. I would advise you to chill. Also there is a massive AE exploit by feeding land to vassals while being a Ming tributary. I made a thread on this. You do not need exploits to do a WC but if you feel it is too tough you can give it a try.

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...-ming-tributary-in-hre.1043654/#post-23276424

Here is a crosspost of mine from another thread:

Spoiler

Before unpausing the game check which nations are your rivals and who would ally you. From patch 1.19 France and Bohemia tend to be friendly in most cases for the Ottos. Definitely pick up France as an ally or improve relations with them to get them as an ally. You will need France as an ally for the strat I will tell you.
1.Start by taking Byz,your cores and the Anatolian minors by 1450. Leave the Christian nations like Serbia,Wallachia,Bosnia alone.

2. Also before Tlemcen gets any allies No-Cb them. I personally like to No-CB Tlemcen(97% WS) and vassalize it. Later on you can hop onto Granada.

3. Around 1455 start thinking of the Mamelukes. In my game I DoWd them and released Syria(its cores have apparently changed in 1.22). Anyway take the Mamelukean lands and feed some to your vassal.

4.Next up is Qara Qoyunho. DoW them and take land. Make sure you take one province with Persian core and release Persia. You will now have 4 vassals(Tlemcen,Granada Persia and Syria) and 2 allies. You would be over dip limit but Dip mana is overrated. However do try to reach Dip tech 7 and then you can forget about Dip tech for a long time.

5.From then on till 1470 keep on eating Mamelukes,QQ etc and try to finish them off as soon as you can. The Mamelukes will take a few wars but on taking Mecca you would get an event for 400 Admin.

6. Around this time(1475) you would have favors with France. Use it to DoW Castille,Aragon with Tlemcen/Granada`s claims.

7. Start annexing Granada and pray for Crimean vassal.

8. Around this time you should have finished off the QQ,AQ. The Timurids are next. When you see they have rebels go for them. This is very important as your goal is to rush to India by 1550.

9. Now in the Iberian front be very cautious with AE. Improve relations with the Italian minors. Only take claims but aim to finish off the Portugese before 1510 and lanlock the Castillians.

10. By 1500 you have to think of the Muscovites. Start making headway towards Muscovy through Crimean claims. Also annex Crimea so as to be able to fabricate claims yourself. You should make a border wall to Perm by 1550.

11. The Timmies should no longer be a factor now. India awaits but before going there try to finish off all those nations you have attacked. You do not want a worldwide coalition. You can start Indian conquest from the 1550s or even 1600s.

12.For idea group I started with Religious,Influence,Admin,Diplo,Offensive,Quality and Exploration.(In patch 1.22 would switch out Offensive for Humanist as the 5th idea group and take Offensive later as the final idea group instead of Exploration.) All these ideas have great policies. The first important policy you would have to take is the cheaper Diplo annexation cost policy. Later you would get further policies with the Rel-Quality ideas. Initally try to vassal feed a bit to fill the admin groups. Also try to reach admin tech 10 before heavily investing in Admin ideas.

13. By 1550 start eating the Magrebi coast with Tlemcens claims. It is easy to finish off the magreb region as you only have to deal with 2 blobs(Tunis Morroco etc)
Also by 1550 you should have made a path to the riches of India,finished off Portugal and also landlocked Castile and Muscovy. Keep in note that you have to truce juggle Muscoy,Mamelukes,Magrebis and Castile. For castille I would advise to take money instead of land as it might get you into a nasty European coalition.

14. Around 1600 you should have finished conquering the Magreb,Mamelukes,Timmies and if you are lucky Castille and Muscovy. This is important as people who had high AE with you are now gone. You can now start your Indian conquest. Also start the annexation of Persia or Tlemcen. They would take a lot of time,

15. Now comes most important and crucial moment of the WC, taking the rich Indian lands and setting up TCs and manufactories to have endless cash.


16. Try to take out the Shiite Bahmanis or Vijaynagaris out if you can. Focus on one religion group. Also you should think about becoming a Ming tributary to expand into Asia.

17. By 1620s you should plan to fire the CoC disaster. A truce break does the trick most of the time. If you have completed Humanist or have enough manpower/money start raising your absolutism. Focus on military and harsh treat or raise autonomy in provinces. It is best to complete Humanism before doing so.

18. By 1640, set up the manufactories in India. Take loans if you have to. You will easily repay them once you fully control Indian trade.

19. With TC money WC should become a breeze. Finish off Ming tributaries and break tributary with him. You should wait for his mandate to tank to 0 and also for the Imperialism CB. With Imperialism CB, start eating China. In Chines lands also build manufactories.

20. Now in 1700s, your goal is to take out Europe. I personally start by attacking England as less AE is accrued there. Also start making alliances with electors to dismatle the HRE. As for Commonwealth/Poland you should have one military idea before attacking them.

21. I personally recommend killing Poland,GB,Baltic nations before attacking Germany. Once they have been dealt with dismantle the HRE and eat the Germans. France should be the last nation to die.

22. By late 1770s, only France and a few minor nations should be left. Finish them and the world is yours.

A final note about tech is that your aim is to reach admin tech 27, dip tech 23 and mil tech 26(mil tech should be kept on par but tech 26 gives a +1 morale. Also next imp. mil tech is tech 30 or whatever.) Initially rush admin tech 10,dip tech 7 and keep mil tech on par. Later delay teching as much as possible till admin/dip tech comes for 100 or 200 mana.

 

[Dominion]

Admin before Influence. You only need the first 3 ideas anyways, after that it can sit around unfinished for a long time.
Influence isn't needed in first and can come second because there's nothing you can create AE with.
Or even diplomatic before Influence for the WS reduction. You rarely integrate much at that point of the game since most of it can get cored by yourself.

AE should really be a non-issue.
The north is horde land. These people have no opinion. They just wait to die by your hands.
East will either defect to you (rebels) or get conquered (reconquest CB, reduced AE).
South is Mamluks and... yea, only Mamluks.
And west of you are catholics. You do not want to mess with catholics as Ottomans in any kind of blobbing game. The HRE is an AE nightmare. They always come last 'cept for Iberia, which is free.

 

[bigaristotel]

Yes, focus on one religion at the time. You don't need Europe at the start

 

[pratik_maitra]

@Dominion - I don't think truce cycling was an issue as I was constantly at war somewhere. Except for that one coalition AE was not an issue either. And that was AE divied up between Mid East/ Levant, Balkans and Caucasus/Pontic Steppes. Too much too soon. I'll put the brakes on next time.

Things that I DO need to handle are better army comp and who to vassalize and when to integrate.

Were Influence > Admin > Quantity > Humanist a good order?

Also Dominion thank you for always giving advice in my threads, I appreciate you taking the time.

And everyone else too.

I would take Religious-Influence-Admin-Diplo-Humanist-anything. This is personally my optimal order. Even with Religious nerf the CB is still awesome. By 1500 you should have Deus Vult and in 1444-1500 you can vassal feed.

A good army composition for really early game is 12/2/0. With cannons I get 12/4/4. You can split this 20 stack up if you are suffering from attrition. Late game the army composition is 20/0/20 with the frontline being full mercs. Hell I even go for full mercs incl. cannons stack of 40/0/40 with a good economy.

As for AE you can always peace out the coalition for 100 WS. It is a bit gamey but usually it is the last resort. However most coalition wars end up with one or two provinces being ceded.

Edit: Admin-Influence-Humanist-Diplo is also a decent choice if you want to ignore Diplo. Diplo tech can be as cheap as 100-150 mana.

 

[Lord Zsinj]

@pratik_maitra - absorbing the Beys and any other Ottoman core is first priority concurrent with CotWD, and first war with the Black Sheep I grabbed my core and a road to Tabriz to release Persia then went nuts on Timmy. Taking too much non core land/non claimed land caused that one coalition.

If that campaign wasn't so fucked up I should have played it out, but even with Otto CCR, Admin & Admin Eff plus Imp CB I'm having trouble picturing how eating all that land is possible in 120ish years.

 

[ElGranCapitan]

I would go Admin>Influence>Humanism or Religious as Ottos

I'm still a BIG fan of Religious, just to show you how far Deus Vult can take you, a screen from my recent Austria one faith, I'm in India and China in 1640, while being finihed with Europe except for Portugal and Muscovy


Since Absolutism a general sentiment here seems to be you don't really need to blob pre Imperialism, you can conquer most of the world later. Yeah, but if you learn how to blob in the earlygame lategame is much less stressful

General route as Ottos has been explained already (Byz+Cores>QQ+Mamluks+release Persia>Timmy>India and East Africa for gold/trade

Also important, always kill bad heirs, you get 3 new choices by event

 

[Dominion]

Let's not start a religious debate in this thread. As long as nobody is willing to crunch the numbers we'll have to file that one under 'unsolved mysteries'

As for the general setup, you're going to drown in mil points if you don't take at least one mil idea and Quantity gives you two different maintenance reductions (regiment cost, maintenance cost), more mercs and a beautiful FL increase.

Though it obviously depends on the playstyle you choose. I like to expand constantly to never lose the feeling or fictive pressure.
If someone prefers to play a more relaxed game with a massive explosion after dip23 your setup obviously works rather well to set yourself up perfectly.

 

[fyfaendeluxe]

Were Influence > Admin > Quantity > Humanist a good order?

Influence into admin is the optimal start, you'll cap your milpoints hard unless mehmet dies early but that's ok now that we got arty barrage. your next three should be humanist, quantity, diplomatic, the order here is up for debate, personally i'd do humanist at tech 10 for ae management and age objectives, then quantity at 14 as you get your manufactories and trade companies going you can afford to fill the forcelimit. diplo is a must aswell i'd take it at 18 but you can swap it for quantity if you wish, the warscore isnt very important in the 1500's due to the age bonus but the diplomat is sorely needed to make claims while you try to annex vassals, and even more +relations is great.
If you get a young ruler with skewed stats that could influence the order aswell.

 

[Lord Zsinj]

As for armies I try go for 4 Cav, then the rest of combat width Inf (merc, but fucked up economy kept most as regulars this run) and a couple arty. Once Arty gets good I start to fill out the back row.

Another mistake was instead of fleshing out armies I just kept making new 10/4/4s even though I needed 2 of them to handle any rebel stack. No excuse there, just bad play.

 

[fyfaendeluxe]

Also something to consider, cozy up to venice the first 10 years(if they don't rival you at game start), they embrace renaissance really quick and if you're friendly it will spread to a third of your cores from negroponte, you can embrace it yourself by 1456-57 without developing anything

 

[Lord Zsinj]

Not a bad idea, is it worth tying up a diplomat while you are laying out claims and closing out wars though? Diplomat micro is another area I need to improve in though.

 

[pratik_maitra]

@pratik_maitra - absorbing the Beys and any other Ottoman core is first priority concurrent with CotWD, and first war with the Black Sheep I grabbed my core and a road to Tabriz to release Persia then went nuts on Timmy. Taking too much non core land/non claimed land caused that one coalition.

If that campaign wasn't so fucked up I should have played it out, but even with Otto CCR, Admin & Admin Eff plus Imp CB I'm having trouble picturing how eating all that land is possible in 120ish years.

@Lord Zsinj if you do not want to One-Tag then in 120 years you can complete the WC. I would advise to finish the campaign and see how much you can take. At the very end ie 1800 declare war on everyone and see if you can vassalize them. You only have to full annex the colonizers. Except for that a good strat is to make every nation less than 100 WS and see if you can make them a vassal. Also client states can be given 200-300 OE. You just have to park one stack there to clear out the rebels.

I believe getting a feel of the rate of conquest in the last 100 years is very important for making a successful WC.

 

[Lord Zsinj]

Another specific question: getting CoC to fire is to end it and get higher max Absolutism? I have not played around with that st all, other that capping out Absolutism.

 

[fyfaendeluxe]

Not a bad idea, is it worth tying up a diplomat while you are laying out claims and closing out wars though? Diplomat micro is another area I need to improve in though.

you only have to improve relations enough to ally them, then you can forget about it. should take 2-3 years while you're warring using missions and reconquest. the gain is somewhat minor though, constantinople gets renaissance passively by 1470.

 

[PhoenixG]

As for armies I try go for 4 Cav, then the rest of combat width Inf (merc, but fucked up economy kept most as regulars this run) and a couple arty. Once Arty gets good I start to fill out the back row.

Another mistake was instead of fleshing out armies I just kept making new 10/4/4s even though I needed 2 of them to handle any rebel stack. No excuse there, just bad play.

4 cav is fine. Ottoman has cav combat ability, is having cav is good. Normally my army comp looks like this. At tech 7 it's 10/2/4, tech 10 10/2/8, tech 13 and onwards 10/2/10. If a country has better cav I'll up to 4 cav instead of 2. Later when you'll start fighting with full combat width drop those cav. and start walking in 20/0/20 and fight a big battle with 40/0/40.

Another specific question: getting CoC to fire is to end it and get higher max Absolutism? I have not played around with that st all, other that capping out Absolutism.

Firing C&C is to get the extra 20 absoltism cap. You need to end the C&C with 65 absoltism or higher to get the +20. If it's between 30 and 65 you'll get +10. While below 30 you'll get -10. And if the rebels win, you'll get -20.

Were Influence > Admin > Quantity > Humanist a good order?

It's good. Like said dominion you also can start with admin. If you start with Influence you'll need start with vassal feeding+integrating, while starting with admin you'll can core yourself more and start intergrating vassals later. It's a thing of playstyle.

Personally I'll go Influence > Admin > Religious/Humanist (depend on the religion) > Diplomatic > Any mil ideas.
Although because of very late mil ideas, you need to fight efficient. You get less resources and "weaker" army.

 

[gia257]

Also something to consider, cozy up to venice the first 10 years(if they don't rival you at game start), they embrace renaissance really quick and if you're friendly it will spread to a third of your cores from negroponte, you can embrace it yourself by 1456-57 without developing anything

You can also spawn colonialism, and if you are lucky printing press (dont count on it though, too many provinces on the pool).


For european beachhead at low ae start by revoking ragusa and guaanteeing granada, if castille cant get granada then it doesnt get reconquista, build a few extra galleys or about 3 heavies. Recover your cores while waiting for tech 4 and then 5. Before tech 4 you have to have attacked AQ and fully annexed, before coring, release Syria as vassal.

At tech 4 attack QQ or Mamluks, whoever you feel will go faster. If you go for QQ you want to get two provinces, one with Iraqi core and Mashriqi culture (important), and one with Persian core, I believe Sinjar and Urmia do. You may also get an armenian core if you wish to go ham on QQ. Dont get more provinces than that, waste of points. After that attack the mamluks, you will probably not have tech advantage anymore due to wasting time with QQ, so dont rush in, move in fort by fort with reinforcements closing the path into your territory, do not siege the mountan fort, go for cairo.

From mamluks return all the syrian cores and grab Benghazi. With that you can claim Tunisian lands.

If granada allied tunis you can declare on tunis and pull granada without messing with your guarantee. You want one tunisian land (to extend coring range) and vassalize granada in this case, seize province from granada when able and you may break the vassalization if you wish. If they arent allied grab one far tunisian land to extend coring range and declare on tlemcen or morocco to get some/all land from granada (I mean they have to have allied someone). After this I would skip north africa, waste of points.

Now castille doesnt get a boost and may die to someone, this is good so they end your vassal. Nibble at portugal first to extend coring range, try to get Porto or as far as you can north, and also Madeira or Arguin if its about to finish (950ish, dont forget to send units to kill the natives) to expand south and possibly get colonialism. From castille try to get Cantabria, or as far north as you can. If you get cantabria you can catch two mothballed aragonian forts easy, get baleares from aragon to release Catalonia later.

Get Bordeaux and get close to scotland if england is weak, if france is the one weak, get Saintonge and Bergerac, then release Gascony.

You dont really want to grab all the land (except mamluks and qq), just one province will do, break alliances with whatever extra warscore so they are all hostile. Eventually one of them will eat the others, use the core you grabbed from each to release the one that died and reconquest.

Use syria, Iraq, persia, catalonia and gascony to reconquest and annex them. Add scotland if you got a core.

Later on you can steal croatia from venice and Transylvania from Hungary, to weaken austro hungary, novgorod will weaken russia. teutonic knights would weaken plc but it is a bit far from you.

In the meantime use your admin points to reach india. Get absolutism, and efficiency and start having 2-4 wars at the same time, peacing as you/vassals can core.

 

[Sinuous]

I know people say to avoid Europe, but I like to take bites out of Poland/Lithuania as AE comes down. I just like to limit their full potential since late game their armies are scary. Granted you can just throw numbers at them, but I'd rather avoid the headache. I also make a beeline to take Moscow ASAP so Russia can't form and then don't have to worry about a giant Russia. After that, I target them in between other wars since AE doesn't really spill over to other nations much.

 

[Tyriion]

I too just failed with Otto. Focussed too much on getting OF too and ran out of time to get europe. So I started again. One thing I'd like to know is How you do the Persia trick exactly.

I'm about 10 years in now and got my cores, and smashed AQ and QQ. Released Syria, Iraq and Persia. First idea group is influence. Admin second to coincide with the bonus CCR. Do I just build spies in Timmy, support seperatists and go to war?

QQ is being wrecked by Iraqi seperatists right now and provinces have started to defect. LD is skyrocketing, am I in trouble? I'd like to prevent that with Persia, but I can't find How to do that exactly.