1st impressions of 1.4

[Slan]

now the SOV FIN War broke out.
the FINs conquered Leningrad and went deeper into russia. bravo AI !!!

problem with the AI is: if a human player plans a war, he gets it troops into position and then declares war. the AI declares a war and then begins to think about where it need troops to defend the front.

so that is the reworked AI we got promised in the video? please don't make me lough. I mean they worked on that patch now for months with 11 (!) beta releases and they didn't noticed something like that?
I am waiting for the first post where someone explains me that this behaviour is absolutely logical and historical.

The strategic action of preparing for the war is handled on a different level than the actual conduction if the war itself. When the Finnish Winter War starts, it starts as a result of a decision. There is a command for the startegic AI to prepare for war against a certain nation. That is left out on purpose from that decision in the Soviet AI file, so the Soviets won't win in a week.
By the way, most of the AI improvements were done on the tactical level, the part of the AI which is not in .lua files and thus not moddable, and in the tech- and productionministers. (With some success, but there is still room for improvement.)

 

[dilk]

now I sent my fleet into the channel.
but what are my CAGs doing? are they attacking other ships and then return to the carrier? no, they are hunting some enemy airplanes all over the british isles and are happy to get totaly wiped out.

have I mentioned that I am a bit peeved (aka pissed)?

 

[SirLaughAlot]

1st impression?


The music script still does not work, Australia joined the Axis in 1938, Germany invaded Poland without the Allies doing anything; The Spanish Civil "war" should be renamed " 12 half-drunk guys defending Barcelona from 13 drunk fascists"(the meaning being that it was all over in about a month); Japan conquered ALL of China by 1939, The entire baltic wants to join the Comiterm and apperently defensive stance means " position your units AROUND the province you want defended, who need a front line? "





Not to be mean or anything but that part abut Empire:Total War not having an AI....Irony is a mean mother huh? :rofl:

 

[CaptRobau]

I've never really started playing HOI3 even though I pre-ordered it because it was too slow and buggy at release. And I didn't like the map (Ethiopia ). Now that Margathea has fixed the map with his map mod and the game runs fast enough I want to start playing but I'm afraid that if it dissappoints me now I'll never ever look at it again. AoD is keeping me happy for the time being but the lack of maneuvring room due to the low level of provinces is getting to me. Should I wait for more updates/expansions or should I just shut up and start playing it ? I.e. is fun to be had from this game in it's current state?

 

[unmerged(158075)]

What i am really disappointed with is the relative easy way to beat the game. In HOI 2 for example playing as GER many of my Seelöwe attempts were thwarted and oftentimes i had to reload due to the heavy losses. Same goes for Barbarossa, which had to be planned carefully.

Now in HOI 3 after x-patches and RCs the opponent AI still is seriously flawed. Invading the british isles is a cakewalk, which i sometimes accomplish with only a few INF divisions. Beating the SOV usually works without intelligent maneuvers just by advancing the front line. Maybe the most serious challenges lie in the organisation of your forces and especially supply, which is not what i would define as a satisfying experience.

Nevertheless we have to respect the sheer task of modeling WW2 on such a complex and multilayerd level.

 

[Slan]

What i am really disappointed with is the relative easy way to beat the game. In HOI 2 for example playing as GER many of my Seelöwe attempts were thwarted and oftentimes i had to reload due to the heavy losses. Same goes for Barbarossa, which had to be planned carefully.

Now in HOI 3 after x-patches and RCs the opponent AI still is seriously flawed. Invading the british isles is a cakewalk, which i sometimes accomplish with only a few INF divisions. Beating the SOV usually works without intelligent maneuvers just by advancing the front line. Maybe the most serious challenges lie in the organisation of your forces and especially supply, which is not what i would define as a satisfying experience.

Nevertheless we have to respect the sheer task of modeling WW2 on such a complex and multilayerd level.

In HoI2, the UK had to defend about 10-15 provinces to hold the islands. Now it is more like 50. They can't have 50 divisions (probably more) to defend at home, otherwise they wouldn't have forces anywhere else. Seelöwe in HoI2 was harder not because the AI was smarter but because it had a lot less space to cover.

 

[dilk]

The strategic action of preparing for the war is handled on a different level than the actual conduction if the war itself. When the Finnish Winter War starts, it starts as a result of a decision. There is a command for the startegic AI to prepare for war against a certain nation. That is left out on purpose from that decision in the Soviet AI file, so the Soviets won't win in a week.
By the way, most of the AI improvements were done on the tactical level, the part of the AI which is not in .lua files and thus not moddable, and in the tech- and productionministers. (With some success, but there is still room for improvement.)

so the AI is taking decisions it doesn't how to prepare for the results. should we call that AI?

 

[unmerged(158075)]

In HoI2, the UK had to defend about 10-15 provinces to hold the islands. Now it is more like 50. They can't have 50 divisions (probably more) to defend at home, otherwise they wouldn't have forces anywhere else. Seelöwe in HoI2 was harder not because the AI was smarter but because it had a lot less space to cover.

Still the few divisions the UK AI builds are placed rather strange and response to invasion is feeble at best, especially the response of the royal navy which sends its fleet mostly in small and vulnerable stacks.

 

[Slan]

so the AI is taking decisions it doesn't how to prepare for the results. should we call that AI?

It does know how to prepare, and it does not prepare to simulate the real situation where the Soviets hoped for a blitz attack which turned out to be a whole winter long. If the Soviet AI did prepare, they would win too easily (and from what I've seen, sometimes they still do.)

 

[KGrob]

I started a game as Germany '36 and invaded Poland at the end of August '36. It's now early March '37, I've been mowing across Europe, the other countries are aligning themselves with the factions one at a time, and nearly the entire world is at war with the major exception being the Soviets.

I've seen some decent AI play. Romania put up a bit of a fight. The Italians, my ally, actually encircled some French divisions in southern France. The British navy has been a nightmare for the Germans, very aggressive. Austria hasn't been that effective as my ally but they've been aggressive. I haven't looked too closely at what Japan, my ally, is doing so I can't really comment on that although I'll probably look much closer at them when I continue my game.

I haven't had any crashes or anything.

Right now, I have to give it a thumbs up.

 

[KGrob]

I've never really started playing HOI3 even though I pre-ordered it because it was too slow and buggy at release. And I didn't like the map (Ethiopia ). Now that Margathea has fixed the map with his map mod and the game runs fast enough I want to start playing but I'm afraid that if it dissappoints me now I'll never ever look at it again. AoD is keeping me happy for the time being but the lack of maneuvring room due to the low level of provinces is getting to me. Should I wait for more updates/expansions or should I just shut up and start playing it ? I.e. is fun to be had from this game in it's current state?

My impression is that, except for maybe something like a hotfix (1.4x), this is the last patch before they being to work on an expansion.

 

[unmerged(83998)]

A few questions before I bother reinstalling hoi :

1) does the AI Germany lose to the AI USSR? (36 scenario)
2) do neutral countries (especially switzerland and sweden) still get into alliances before 1940?
3) is there some sort of stalemate in china? does china still go allies early?

 

[KGrob]

A few questions before I bother reinstalling hoi :

1) does the AI Germany lose to the AI USSR? (36 scenario)
2) do neutral countries (especially switzerland and sweden) still get into alliances before 1940?
3) is there some sort of stalemate in china? does china still go allies early?

Communist China joined the Commintern in early 1937 in my game. FYI.

 

[Lauri]

A few questions before I bother reinstalling hoi :

1) does the AI Germany lose to the AI USSR? (36 scenario)
2) do neutral countries (especially switzerland and sweden) still get into alliances before 1940?
3) is there some sort of stalemate in china? does china still go allies early?

1) Never in my games
2) Not really sure what to say.. Haven't played enough games to make a real answer, but in my Soviet game, Switzerland stayed neutral, and, as usual, Germany declared war on Sweden, thus Sweden joins the allies
3) In the same game, that war went on until mid '44, when Japan finally managed to defeat China.. A year after the start, China was just a single VP from surendering, but managed to beat back a tired Japan... The "Clixue-southern China state" took over Indochina and Siam, which greatly helped, but when they were invaded in their homeland, which was undefended, the tide started to turn.. And Nat. China had to fight on two fronts, which it didn't manage...

 

[Slan]

A few questions before I bother reinstalling hoi :

1) does the AI Germany lose to the AI USSR? (36 scenario)
2) do neutral countries (especially switzerland and sweden) still get into alliances before 1940?
3) is there some sort of stalemate in china? does china still go allies early?

Hands-off test game with my homemade mod as of august, '42:

1) Barbarossa hasn't started yet, but the Soviets are mobilizing, so I'm expecting something to happen soon. If they do attack Germany, there will be one hell of a fight, as the Soviets have 1500 full strength brigades with 800 manpower still left. (They are quite short on officers though.)
But if everything works as intended, then Germany will call for Japan, which has won the war in China in '40 (see below).
EDIT: Actually because the Soviets DoWed Germany, Japan was automatically involved in the war... It's a shame, as the Soviets pulled most of the troops to the west...
2) countries not attacked by Germany are neutral, except for the Commonwealth of Nations.
3) There was a stalemate in china which broke to the advantage of Japan, but because a bug I made, Com. China's troops didn't help. Another re-run would probably end in a different result.

 

[dilk]

A few questions before I bother reinstalling hoi :

1) does the AI Germany lose to the AI USSR? (36 scenario)
2) do neutral countries (especially switzerland and sweden) still get into alliances before 1940?
3) is there some sort of stalemate in china? does china still go allies early?

2) in my game yes (switzerland, norway, sweden)
3) in my game no

 

[themousemaster]

A few questions before I bother reinstalling hoi :

1) does the AI Germany lose to the AI USSR? (36 scenario)
2) do neutral countries (especially switzerland and sweden) still get into alliances before 1940?
3) is there some sort of stalemate in china? does china still go allies early?

1) If it is just straight-up Germany VS USSR, Germany almost always comes out on top. However, more than I few times I've seen the Allies (remember them?) "spoil" Germany's attack, which changes the outcome rather dramatically.

2) They do, but it's not a "X joins the Y" type of guarantee. In all my games, 2 or 3 countries do something they probably wouldn't have (Axis Australia, Swiss joining anything, etc.), but which 3 countries seem to get the 3-year "attention" of foreign diplomats changes often.

3) I've seen China go allies, comitern, stay neutral, and get beaten-to-annexation-before-aligning in about equal portions in my games (only 1 1.4-game-in-progess so far mind you, so I'm adding 1.3 as well)

 

[unmerged(34917)]

Yes neutral countries still join early. Its now november 1939 and Finland, Denmark, Belgium, Norway, Greece, Sweden, Ireland, Commonwealth and many others are on Allied side. US not yet tough.

 

[Sute]{h]

Yes neutral countries still join early. Its now november 1939 and Finland, Denmark, Belgium, Norway, Greece, Sweden, Ireland, Commonwealth and many others are on Allied side. US not yet tough.

What country are you playing as? Assuming that you are playing a major your actions (or lack of actions) could cause this. Using spies as Germany is a must.

 

[unmerged(34917)]

I am playing Germany 1936 normal. I raised threat of UK, France and SU from the start of the game. The neutrals joined nonetheless.