1989 - Turning Point

[von Sachsen]

Well for the Soviets, Red Army Choir in general, I like this one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXyLy8XKBts.
Apparently Paul McCartney released Back in the USSR in 1989.

 

[Viden]

Not all of them. Some are more dictatorial and restrictive than others. Just check the map:

Darker green being more democratic and darker red being more authoritarian. It's a 2010 map, but really doesn't matter that much since many countries' regimes haven't changed much in the past 30 years (with the notable exception of Russia and its periphery and some other countries).

Thus, for example, Morocco and Algeria would be either Reactionary or Paternal Autocrat, but what about Iran or Saudi Arabia, for example?

I was speaking about North Africa. Those you say would be reactionary (Saudi Arabia Neo-fascist since... well, they are quite nazis about religion).

North Korea's ideology is based upon the Juche Idea. By the way, Cuba's regime is Castroism. And there are also other ideologies, like Maoism, Hoxhaism, Titoism... too many to have each one in the game. Thus, we need a generic term, and Stalinist is not generic enough. However, we agree that all of them, Maoism, "Jucheism" and Stalinism share a common feature: all of them being totalitarian socialist states. Thus, "Totalitarian Socialist" does seem generic enough.

Stalinist is quite generic. Juche? North Korean Stalinism. Maoism? Chinese Stalinism. Castroism? Cuban Stalinism. And so on.

Actually, this supports my idea. A government may declare itself Stalinist, another one will declare itself Maoist, and another one will choose Jucheism as their ideology. In reality, though, all of them are just different guises to cover up a totalitarian socialist government.

All of them are different versions of Stalinism.

 

[Winner]

Well for the Soviets, Red Army Choir in general, I like this one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXyLy8XKBts.

And Polyushko Polye, that's a must.

 

[unmerged(171402)]

Stalinist is quite generic. Juche? North Korean Stalinism. Maoism? Chinese Stalinism. Castroism? Cuban Stalinism. And so on.

Then, by that rule, a right-wing totalitarian regime should be called National Socialist or Fascist, even when those terms' use has highly decreased since the end of WWII. No, that's not the way. National Socialist/Fascist/Leninist/Stalinist terms are appropiate for their respective time periods, that's it, from 1920s to 1950s, which is roughly the time period covered within HOI2 vanilla. However, those are not terms much in use today for governments and regimes.

Also, even if all of these may be based on and share elements with Stalinism, they ARE NOT Stalinist, and will be wrong to call them like that. As of today, it is true that Stalinism is associated with a with a regime of terror and totalitarian rule. But by calling all of these regimes Totalitarian Socialist we do indeed include Stalinism within it, and also other different regimes who share the same characteristics.

 

[Panzergruppe]

So, what's needed to complete this mod? I take it you have the map ready, and since it's an old project, probably most most ministers and leaders. Graphics, events?

 

[gll25]

So, what's needed to complete this mod? I take it you have the map ready, and since it's an old project, probably most most ministers and leaders. Graphics, events?

Hansnery is already working on the techtree, after that only events and some other minor things left. Of course, some nations doesnt have a cabinet, but all the major ones have (only some eastern block ones lacking).

Thanks for the music suggestions, I like them all Keep sending more

 

[Viden]

Then, by that rule, a right-wing totalitarian regime should be called National Socialist or Fascist, even when those terms' use has highly decreased since the end of WWII. No, that's not the way. National Socialist/Fascist/Leninist/Stalinist terms are appropiate for their respective time periods, that's it, from 1920s to 1950s, which is roughly the time period covered within HOI2 vanilla. However, those are not terms much in use today for governments and regimes.

If the regime shares the common traits of fascism/nazism, then yes. Terms doesn't have an end date.

PS: And I repeat: the label used by the government doesn't have any importance.

Also, even if all of these may be based on and share elements with Stalinism, they ARE NOT Stalinist, and will be wrong to call them like that. As of today, it is true that Stalinism is associated with a with a regime of terror and totalitarian rule. But by calling all of these regimes Totalitarian Socialist we do indeed include Stalinism within it, and also other different regimes who share the same characteristics.

They are Stalinist. Moreover: Socialism is totalitarian.

 

[JRHINDO]

They are Stalinist. Moreover: Socialism is totalitarian.

OMG... Nice BS Mr McCarthy!
Even Wikipedia and all its biased/flawed articles disagree...

 

[Panzergruppe]

Hansnery is already working on the techtree, after that only events and some other minor things left. Of course, some nations doesnt have a cabinet, but all the major ones have (only some eastern block ones lacking).

Is Sweden complete?

 

[Viden]

OMG... Nice BS Mr McCarthy!
Even Wikipedia and all its biased/flawed articles disagree...

So, McCarthy agrees with Lenin?

 

[unmerged(171402)]

If the regime shares the common traits of fascism/nazism, then yes. Terms doesn't have an end date.

PS: And I repeat: the label used by the government doesn't have any importance.

So, let's say, an absolutistic regime back in the XVIII or XIX regimes, which do indeed share many traits with fascism/nazism (political repression, autocratic and in some cases totalitarian rule, etc.) should be labeled as a National Socialist regime? Of course not, because National Socialism was not even created as a concept back in that era. Neither should Fascism/Nazism be used to label today's governments, since those terms are pretty much extinct as of today.

I was not saying if a government label itself as nazi/fascist or not, but that these are pretty much anachronical terms to use in a late XX/XXI century setting. Moreover, Stalinism does reference to a person that by the 1980s was already 30 years dead and whose ideology had nothing to do anymore with neither Soviet, Chinese or North Korean politics. Those are outdated labels.

They are Stalinist. Moreover: Socialism is totalitarian.

The very fact that they use a name other than Stalinism for their ideologies implies that these ideologies have differences, even if minor. Thus, naming them Stalinist would be very restrictive.

The situation in 1980s is very different than in 1930s. Let's use different terms too.

Also, gll25, I suggest a few songs:

Auferstanden aus Ruinen (DDR Anthem): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DTV92wqYjfA
USA Military March - Marine Corps Military Theme: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Odj1ek52Y8
Katyusha (Red Army Choir): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2SLvtP6KMUM
John Lennon - Give Peace a Chance: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ByJ6WTZ_9O8 This one was used in the old 1989, but it sounds good for this era

However, something more solemn or serious should be used for war tracks. A war in the 1980s would surely ensue into a Soviet invasion of Europe and could very develop into a full nuclear exchange, so let's have something more dramatic for it.

Composed by Hans Zimmer - Crimson Tide: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0t9mxvVFOzo
Mozart - Requiem Lacrimosa http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kg6VVAcZ2SI
EU III - Battle of Damascus track sounds splendid for this kind of situation. If it can be used, of course: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-rG8pD6iK8
Metallica - Nothing Else Matters: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ye24cqG8j3M
Metallica - Enter the Sandman: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAlTKSkIpn0

For other war tracks, I recommend to check for more heavy metal songs of the era. Curiously, something that I've seen in many strategy games is that SU's themes have always a heavy metal feeling to them.

 

[unmerged(135926)]

you guys heard about epic NATO plan to Nuke Poland along Vistula River if soviets were to attack Europe ?? its supposed to be like this
1st Soviet attack was only infantry divisions [and only if they destroyed] they would send through Poland 2nd Massive Armored Attack , that's when Nato starts Nuking Poland...if i remember from what i heard 75 % of Polish Soldiers would die and probably a lot more civils...i hope this mod will be playable

 

[unmerged(171402)]

you guys heard about epic NATO plan to Nuke Poland along Vistula River if soviets were to attack Europe ?? its supposed to be like this
1st Soviet attack was only infantry divisions [and only if they destroyed] they would send through Poland 2nd Massive Armored Attack , that's when Nato starts Nuking Poland...if i remember from what i heard 75 % of Polish Soldiers would die and probably a lot more civils...i hope this mod will be playable

You mean this?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_Days_to_the_River_Rhine

 

[unmerged(135926)]

You mean this?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_Days_to_the_River_Rhine

oh lol and i recited my text from memory...but yes its that ...

oh maybe you should use this music too http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tb-gI_pFog0 xD

 

[unmerged(171402)]

oh maybe you should use this music too http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tb-gI_pFog0 xD

If a music track from that game is to be chosen, I'd rather choose this one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBiBlB-OwCY

 

[gll25]

Also, gll25, I suggest a few songs:

Auferstanden aus Ruinen (DDR Anthem): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DTV92wqYjfA
USA Military March - Marine Corps Military Theme: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Odj1ek52Y8
Katyusha (Red Army Choir): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2SLvtP6KMUM
John Lennon - Give Peace a Chance: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ByJ6WTZ_9O8 This one was used in the old 1989, but it sounds good for this era

However, something more solemn or serious should be used for war tracks. A war in the 1980s would surely ensue into a Soviet invasion of Europe and could very develop into a full nuclear exchange, so let's have something more dramatic for it.

Composed by Hans Zimmer - Crimson Tide: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0t9mxvVFOzo
Mozart - Requiem Lacrimosa http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kg6VVAcZ2SI
EU III - Battle of Damascus track sounds splendid for this kind of situation. If it can be used, of course: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-rG8pD6iK8
Metallica - Nothing Else Matters: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ye24cqG8j3M
Metallica - Enter the Sandman: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAlTKSkIpn0

For other war tracks, I recommend to check for more heavy metal songs of the era. Curiously, something that I've seen in many strategy games is that SU's themes have always a heavy metal feeling to them.

All great suggestions, I really like the DDR anthem . Also, a good war track would be Vivaldi's Storm

 

[CylonAndrew]

I think this image will suit the scenario well...

 

[unmerged(171402)]

All great suggestions, I really like the DDR anthem . Also, a good war track would be Vivaldi's Storm

Vivaldi's Storm? For a XX century setting, I think it sounds too much "classical". I added Mozart's Lacrimosa to the list because it sounded solemn, quiet and dramatic, giving a feeling like the "calm that would precede a storm". But I even had doubts with that one. However, I must agree that for this time frame, more modern songs, like those of Metallica or other pieces, fit better as war tracks.

Other suggestions for war tracks, though I'm not sure if they could be used or there would be any copyright issue with them.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nldgIfy9bdk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KpHy843XVdg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBW7fb8R9a0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwVtJIDo6JA

 

[gll25]

Vivaldi's Storm? For a XX century setting, I think it sounds too much "classical". I added Mozart's Lacrimosa to the list because it sounded solemn, quiet and dramatic, giving a feeling like the "calm that would precede a storm". But I even had doubts with that one. However, I must agree that for this time frame, more modern songs, like those of Metallica or other pieces, fit better as war tracks.

Other suggestions for war tracks, though I'm not sure if they could be used or there would be any copyright issue with them.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nldgIfy9bdk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KpHy843XVdg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBW7fb8R9a0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwVtJIDo6JA

Time means nothing if the music is amazing and fits in quite well

 

[Viden]

So, let's say, an absolutistic regime back in the XVIII or XIX regimes, which do indeed share many traits with fascism/nazism (political repression, autocratic and in some cases totalitarian rule, etc.) should be labeled as a National Socialist regime? Of course not, because National Socialism was not even created as a concept back in that era. Neither should Fascism/Nazism be used to label today's governments, since those terms are pretty much extinct as of today.

Autocratic traits =/= fascists traits.

I was not saying if a government label itself as nazi/fascist or not, but that these are pretty much anachronical terms to use in a late XX/XXI century setting. Moreover, Stalinism does reference to a person that by the 1980s was already 30 years dead and whose ideology had nothing to do anymore with neither Soviet, Chinese or North Korean politics. Those are outdated labels.`

Outdated? You're joking, right? We are talking about terms commonly used nowadays. For example:

http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/international/countriesandterritories/northkorea/index.html

Updated: July 25, 2011

North Korea is the last Stalinist state on earth, (...)

The very fact that they use a name other than Stalinism for their ideologies implies that these ideologies have differences, even if minor. Thus, naming them Stalinist would be very restrictive.

Then, Mussolini's Italy is the only fascist state in History. Then, there's no Marxist state in the whole History. Etc.

Stalinism isn't restrictive. It includes a wide range of ideologies with a lot of common traits.

The situation in 1980s is very different than in 1930s. Let's use different terms too.

Ok. Then we must forget the following traits: liberal, conservative, autocrat, social, democrat, socialist, communist, fundamentalist, paternal and radical.