1984 Mod (The Novel, not the Date)

[that-guy-is-it]

A mod where the world is divided between 3 totalitarian superpowers at war with one another. Objective is conquering the world. The key is that, not only are the superpowers really powerful, but the more you win, the higher the militancy in Oceania (or Eastasia. But not Eurasia. We have always been at war with Eurasia), so you must balance your victories carefully, lest the people chose to not tolerate your Party Policy if you are winning. Techs will give better weapons and shorter production times, and the top ones will really slowly decrease the infamy penalty (better surveillance and brainwashing, "abolishing the orgasm", as O'Brien said, etc.) Finally, conquering the unclaimed African and Middle Eastern Regions will give pro-Democracy population which you must suppress carefully to fully conquer, or you will fall to a Revolution. What do you think? Should we try to make this mod? Would you play it? As Oceania or as Eurasia (not Eastasia. We are at war with them, remember).

 

[BBBD316]

Though it would be interesting it would be very difficult I think, especially trying to get the AI to understand that it shouldn't just send all troops to attack.

So if dissent is high you may find the AI nations break up rather quickly.

 

[Secret Master]

If you accept that Goldstien's book within the novel is correct, the three superstates actually have no real interest in winning the so-called wars they engage in.

(You could argue that it's rubbish that is just manufactured by the Party to snare people for the Thought Police, and thus nothing in it is true. But during Winston's interrogation, O'brien never indicates that the information in the book is false, and the logic it presents about perpetual war being in the interests of the party seems cogent.)

If so, then it seems like HOI is the wrong game to use for such a mod. It's so focused on war and winning the war that it doesn't work for the setting.

 

[Evan05]

Techs will give better weapons and shorter production times,

Not to nit pick or anything, but none of the Superpowers actually want any scientific development, be it militarily or otherwise. Any technology that is not directly beneficial to the dominance of the Party (improved telescreens, better brainwashing techniques, etc.) is kept the same, with all free and inventive thought being stomped out.

In military technology, all three nations are the same. That aids in keeping the war forever a stalemate.

 

[MonkeyFuzz]

A 1984 strategic war game should be the epitome of tedious. Each of your grand offensives eventually sputters out, your allies betray you at just the worst moment to stop your advance, and the war is never won.

 

[Alexander Suvorov]

We have always been at war with Eastasia.

It's so focused on war and winning the war that it doesn't work for the setting.

You'd have to run this mod with 3 people. I don't think the AI is going to maintain the balance between the 3 powers, one of them will have an edge and win the war.
You could make it so the only techs on the tech tree are the ones that support the party's repression and make a bunch of events that cost you political power to repress tech advances to simulate the "unwanted" techs that aren't part of the tech tree.

 

[that-guy-is-it]

If you accept that Goldstien's book within the novel is correct, the three superstates actually have no real interest in winning the so-called wars they engage in.

(You could argue that it's rubbish that is just manufactured by the Party to snare people for the Thought Police, and thus nothing in it is true. But during Winston's interrogation, O'brien never indicates that the information in the book is false, and the logic it presents about perpetual war being in the interests of the party seems cogent.)

If so, then it seems like HOI is the wrong game to use for such a mod. It's so focused on war and winning the war that it doesn't work for the setting.

That is the challenge. I am proposing this because I think it would be a fun experiment, not to emulate the meaning of the novel. From that perspective, you should try to conquer the world. What Goldstein says applies in that victory leads to militancy, so you must be careful in how you achieve victory.

 

[FOARP]

It's been done.

But . . . actually I would be interested to play this even if it is a hellish stalemate just for the cool vibe the whole thing would have.

As a modding project, however, you would have quite a task:

1) All-new flags, artwork, and portraits for the three superpowers and their leaders.

2) Deciding the borders of the three states (the book only give a rough description of this).

3) Events - the book gives no guidance on what these might be.

4) Complete OOBs with balancing designed to create a stalemate.

5) AI ensuring that the two weaker powers will always ally to attack the stronger one.
​

You know, the copyright is due to run out in under four years, so people will even be able to make legitimate war-games around this scenario without having to pay license-fees.

 

[BBBD316]

I would imagine Vicky would be a better game to mod it into though.

 

[Secret Master]

I agree. Vic2 really has the mechanics for this sort of thing. You want to get into the nitty gritty of domestic politics, Vicky is the way to go.

Reform: Generous Thought Police

The Thought Police are now so generous that they rain compassion down upon all POPs, granting a -0.05 reduction in MIL while increasing reform desire by 15%. Big Brother is, indeed, always watching.


Reform: Generous Ministry of Truth

The Ministry of Truth has more Memory Holes and employees than ever. You need another 0.2% bureaucrats to run it, but editing old newspapers to correct their errors has never been so easy. Reduces CON by 0.05 while also reducing reform desire by 10%. By the way, aren't we at war with Eastasia? Better get those newspapers fixed.

 

[FOARP]

I agree. Vic2 really has the mechanics for this sort of thing. You want to get into the nitty gritty of domestic politics, Vicky is the way to go.

Reform: Generous Thought Police

The Thought Police are now so generous that they rain compassion down upon all POPs, granting a -0.05 reduction in MIL while increasing reform desire by 15%. Big Brother is, indeed, always watching.


Reform: Generous Ministry of Truth

The Ministry of Truth has more Memory Holes and employees than ever. You need another 0.2% bureaucrats to run it, but editing old newspapers to correct their errors has never been so easy. Reduces CON by 0.05 while also reducing reform desire by 10%. By the way, aren't we at war with Eastasia? Better get those newspapers fixed.

I'm imagining the war exhaustion after the second or third decade of being at war with Eurasia/Eastasia may get a bit much even for the thought police to handle in a Vicky 2 1984 mod . . .

There was a pretty good Civ2 mod for 1984 you can find on Apolyton (if that site's still going) that simulated all of this.

 

[Secret Master]

I'm imagining the war exhaustion after the second or third decade of being at war with Eurasia/Eastasia may get a bit much even for the thought police to handle in a Vicky 2 1984 mod . . .

I've seen AI uncivilized China survive 100% war exhaustion without reactionaries overthrowing the government, so I wouldn't be too sure.

I was irritated too, as I spent 6 years blockading them and occupying them just to get the war exhaustion high enough to collapse their government. (I was feeling greedy, and wanted the substates independent so I could protectorate them all....)

 

[TheCrimsonMajor]

I haven't re-read 1984 in years, but wasn't the whole point that the world was divided between the three powers who were locked in an endless stalemate? I recall that they had a far greater political interest in endless war for the internal security benefits than they did in actually winning. That doesn't sound very fun from a grand strategy perspective, or from any gameplay perspective.

I love 1984 as a novel, and I think that narratives which are inspired by it are very interesting, but 1984 as a game? I don't see the appeal.

 

[FOARP]

I haven't re-read 1984 in years, but wasn't the whole point that the world was divided between the three powers who were locked in an endless stalemate? I recall that they had a far greater political interest in endless war for the internal security benefits than they did in actually winning. That doesn't sound very fun from a grand strategy perspective, or from any gameplay perspective.

I love 1984 as a novel, and I think that narratives which are inspired by it are very interesting, but 1984 as a game? I don't see the appeal.

I played the 1984 mod for Civ 2, and the main appeal for me was basically winning the unwinnable war. They also put a whole load of cool weapons-systems in to be researched based on that bit in the book where they talk about the development of weapons that were never fielded. Yeah, I get that this isn't really "historical", but it doesn't have to be, doe sit?

I've seen AI uncivilized China survive 100% war exhaustion without reactionaries overthrowing the government, so I wouldn't be too sure.

I was irritated too, as I spent 6 years blockading them and occupying them just to get the war exhaustion high enough to collapse their government. (I was feeling greedy, and wanted the substates independent so I could protectorate them all....)

On second thoughts, maybe all you need to do is research the "War is Peace" tech and you'll start getting "Peace Exhaustion" when you're not fighting

 

[Evan05]

I agree. Vic2 really has the mechanics for this sort of thing. You want to get into the nitty gritty of domestic politics, Vicky is the way to go.

Reform: Generous Thought Police

The Thought Police are now so generous that they rain compassion down upon all POPs, granting a -0.05 reduction in MIL while increasing reform desire by 15%. Big Brother is, indeed, always watching.


Reform: Generous Ministry of Truth

The Ministry of Truth has more Memory Holes and employees than ever. You need another 0.2% bureaucrats to run it, but editing old newspapers to correct their errors has never been so easy. Reduces CON by 0.05 while also reducing reform desire by 10%. By the way, aren't we at war with Eastasia? Better get those newspapers fixed.

Politically yes, but I think the actual military would be much better represented in Hearts of Iron.