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mib

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OMG!!!

I've been thinking the exact same thing!!!

But as you know, technology in George Orwell's world is stagnant. Warfare is really a front to keep the people from internal matters. (Sounds like a war going on right now doesn't it.) I suggest doing a 1984-1950s mod, you know, the period when Oceania, Eurasia and Eastasia were formed. Eastasia seemed to have had the most fighting. Should be most interesting.
 

CCA

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We should make a hypothetical one where the Factions star fighting again but give all of the Factions techteaqms of skill level 1 or 2 for the highest. I can make the techteams and some events, minister files but i dont know how to change the Time or date. I sugest we make either a country or events dealing with a unified undegroun rebelion for the big three. What do you think Oceania,Eurasia,Eastasia should be? A number of seperate countries belonging to an alliance or three big super-states?
 

smosquito

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Do your mod in newspeak and I'm sold; though I am rather curious-

Regarding Homage to Catalonia... has anyone played Spain or does anyone know? Is there a 29th (POUM) division in the Republican OB?

And finally how about an Orwell compilation mod. Does shooting the Elephant in Burmese days decrease or increase unrest...?
 

Sarmatia1871

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smosquito said:
Do your mod in newspeak and I'm sold; though I am rather curious-

Regarding Homage to Catalonia... has anyone played Spain or does anyone know? Is there a 29th (POUM) division in the Republican OB?

And finally how about an Orwell compilation mod. Does shooting the Elephant in Burmese days decrease or increase unrest...?

:D - Doubleplusgood Brother!

I think the Republican Spanish OOB is too small to have the POUM division turn up, but I could be wrong...

I always wanted someone to make a 'British Revolution' type mod following the programme of Orwell's 'The Lion and the Unicorn' (one of my favourite books ever!). And if anyone wants it, here's the man himself as a minister/leader pic that I made for Kaiserreich:

kaiserreich ericblair.JPG
(save as .bmp to use!)

There was also a very very long thread for HOI1 trying to create a 1984 Mod - they had some good ideas, but ran into problems of exactly how to make it playable...
 

Zuckergußgebäck

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The main problem I see with this sort of a project is that warfare in 1984 is rather limited, so as to suck up most of the resources, keeping the population at a low standard of living. Hence, no annexations, which would make for a rather boring game...
 

Sarmatia1871

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Zuckergußgebäck said:
The main problem I see with this sort of a project is that warfare in 1984 is rather limited, so as to suck up most of the resources, keeping the population at a low standard of living. Hence, no annexations, which would make for a rather boring game...

Yeah true - I think the HOI1 attempt was going to make it a constant battle against dissent, eg. if you didn't try to engage in pointless attacks and waste units and resources, your dissent would go up. But again, probably wouldn't be very fun!

Having said this, I seem to remember that the 'disputed area' in 1984 that the three powers were all fighting over was quite large - IIRC, including North and Central Africa, the Middle East, most of India, Indonesia and South East Asia. So, you could probably make a reasonably interesting war out of this -> And just as you start making strong advances into Europe, with your Asian front secure -> "Oceania has always been at war with Eastasia..."
 

Sarmatia1871

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Miltiades said:
What would the governments be?

:D - Ingsoc, Neo-Bolshevism and Obliteration of the Self ('Death Worship') of course!

For cabinets, it might be easier to have different policy choices, rather than actual ministers (apart from 'Big Brother' as Oceanian Head of State...).
 

Shadow Reaper

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I dunno about you but I took the strange view that there was only one dominant power in the world, and that it kept on shelling its own population to force them into having such a life as they did... If you create the perception of your state having enemies that want to kill you, then your less likely to want to suddenly realise how shoddy your own government is (sounds familiar ;)), even with the thought police and regular 'we love big brother' and room 101 sessions.

Just my interpretation, call it wrong if you will ;)

imho i wouldn't see much point in doing it, but dont let people stop you if its what you wanna do.
 

Brasidas

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Iirc, my words on the subject back in one of the HoI1 threads were this:

Objective of the scenario: out and out conquest. Deliberately try to upset the stalemate. Picture the upper party and thoughtpolice hierarchy having been accidentally purged by a fire or something of the kind, removing oversight over your suprisingly ambitious campaign.

Use the Civ2 1984 scenario as a model.
1. Take diplomacy out of the mix, no puppets, no negotiations or alliances
divvy up the territories
-Africa: northwest is Eurasia, Egypt+middle east is Eastasia, South Africa+Madagascar Oceania
-Hawaii, eastern Micronesia and all of Australia are Oceania. All points east of these territories are Oceania, all of the rest of the pacific is Eastasia
-Eurasia/Eastasia border is on the Urals
-Eurasian cores are all provinces in european Russia (west of Urals) and all other european countries
-Oceanian cores are all provinces of the British Isles (including Ireland), both of the Americas, Australia, and South Africa.
-Eastasian cores could be all provinces of China, India, Japan, and Mongolia. Every province in asia might be considered a core.

Starting forces:
A sizable reserve is available to deter the enemy from attacking your home provinces directly. By "pulling the goalie", this gives you the ability to build a concentrated strike force to invade one opponent.

Eurasia would have the most concentrated forces and easiest to mount a "firebrigade" strategy. Small, mediterranean-based navy.

Oceania would have the lightest (but not underwhelming) land forces and a large but not overwhelming navy.

Eastasia would have the most dispersed territory to defend, with more forces to defend it but vulnerable to enemy force concentration. Second-largest navy.

Industry:
Approximate tie between Oceania and Eurasia, with Eastasia lagging behind.

Manpower:
Eastasia will lead manpower, thanks to both geography and HoI2's engine. Oceania and Eurasia will be approximately tied.

Nukes:

disabled

Shadow Reaper said:
I dunno about you but I took the strange view that there was only one dominant power in the world, and that it kept on shelling its own population to force them into having such a life as they did... If you create the perception of your state having enemies that want to kill you, then your less likely to want to suddenly realise how shoddy your own government is (sounds familiar ;)), even with the thought police and regular 'we love big brother' and room 101 sessions.

Just my interpretation, call it wrong if you will ;)

imho i wouldn't see much point in doing it, but dont let people stop you if its what you wanna do.

I call it wrong. Your scenario is indeed boring as a game. The literal interpretation of the book sets up a scenario that has at least some potential.
 

Brasidas

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Sarmatia1871 said:
:D - Ingsoc, Neo-Bolshevism and Obliteration of the Self ('Death Worship') of course!

For cabinets, it might be easier to have different policy choices, rather than actual ministers (apart from 'Big Brother' as Oceanian Head of State...).

I'd say leave everything as "undistinguished suit" except for HoS and HoG. Demonic Demagogue and Flamboyant Tough Guy, respectively (same as Hitler's stats for HoS and HoG)
 

CCA

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Suggested tech teams
Tech Teams
1984
Eurasia
EUR;Name;Pic Name;Skill;Start Year;End Year;Speciality1;Speciality2;Speciality3;Speciality4;Speciality5;Speciality6;Speciality7;Speciality8;Speciality9;Speciality10;Speciality11;Speciality12;Speciality13;Speciality14;Speciality15;Speciality16;Speciality17;Speciality18;Speciality19;Speciality20;Speciality21;Speciality22;Speciality23;Speciality24;Speciality25;Speciality26;Speciality27;Speciality28;Speciality29;Speciality30;Speciality31;Speciality32;x
7600;Eurasian General Staff ;T7600;1;1930;2999;large_unit_tactics;decentralized_execution;training;infantry_focus;individual_courage;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;x
7601;Eurasian Weapons Factory;T0000;2;1930;2999;artillery;general_equipment;training;industrial_engineering;chemistry;technical_efficiency;;;;;;;;
7602;Eurasian Industries Ltd;T0000;2;1937;2999;industrial_engineering;chemistry;management;;;;;;;;;;x
7603;Eurasian Aviation School;T000;2;1930;2999;aircraft_testing;piloting;;;;;;;;;;;;x
7604;Eurasian Aircraft Works;T000;1;1930;2999;artillery;aeronautics;chemistry;;;;;;;;;;x
7605;Eurasian Naval Staff;T000;2;1930;2999;seamanship;large_taskforce_tactics;centralized_execution;;;;;;;;;;;;x
7605;Eurasian Nuclear Research Team;T000;2;1930;2999;nuclear_physics;nuclear_engineering;mathematics;;;;;;;;;x
Oceania
1000;Ministry of Peace;T1000;2;1930;2990;aeronautics;electronics;technical_efficiency;artillery;mechanics;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;x
1001;Airstrip 1;T1000;1;1930;2990;artillery;electronics;aeronautics;aircraft_testing;piloting;fighter_tactics;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;x
1002;Floating Fortress Factory Works;T1000;2;1930;2990;technical_efficieny;naval_artillery;general_equipment;training;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;x
1004;Oceanian National Factories;T1000;2;1930;2990;industrial_engineering;management;chemistry;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;x
1005;Big Brother;T1000;2;1930;2990;large_unit_tactics;infantry_focus;centralized_execution;training;seamanship;large_taskforce_tactics;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;x
1006;Ocianian Nuclear Research Team;T000;2;1930;2999;nuclear_physics;nuclear_engineering;mathematics;;;;;;;;;x
Eastasia
5100;Eastasian Defence Ministry;T5100;1;2930;1970;general_equipment;mechanics;electronics;training;artillery;naval_artillery;technical_efficiency;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;x
5101;Eastasian Development Co.;T5101;2;2930;1990;industrial_engineering;general_equipment;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;x
5102;The Emperor;T5102;3;1930;2990;large_unit_tactics;infantry_focus;training;centralized_exceution;large_taskforce_tactics;seamanship;piloting;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;x
 

Brasidas

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CCA said:
So who's actually interested in helping with the mod by coding?

It depends upon the decision as to the mod's direction. I find tech mostly irrelevant to the game, for example. I've laid out how I imagine the gameplay to work (ie pick a faction and try to be a mover and shaker in a static world).

I'm not going to sink time into a project to see it turn into a shouting match over whether every province should have level 10 forts.
 

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Brasidas said:
I'd say leave everything as "undistinguished suit" except for HoS and HoG. Demonic Demagogue and Flamboyant Tough Guy, respectively (same as Hitler's stats for HoS and HoG)

I don't know... Ruthless Powermonger and Silent Workhorse also sound like pretty fair candidates....
 

Blodwen

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I've been thinking about this scenario for a long time, but there are three massive problems that make it impossible.

1. Every couple of weeks your enemies and allies would have to change. This also goes for the AI, which won't be able to cope with all the redeploying. The only solution is to go against the book and have the war change every year.

2. As stated, the fact that you're should not be allowed to invade anothers homeland. This isn't just because neither nation had the strength, even with the alliance of another, to invade the nation it was at war with. It was also because Insoc feared that if their soldiers entered the enemies homelands and found out that the people there lived exactly like they did then they would revolt. I have no idea how to stop a human player invading Europe or whatnot.

3. The war is meant to go on forever. Because of this, the human player will never feel that he has won a victory if he can never conquer more than Africa and India, never actually triumph. It would be like playing the UK in the '36 scenario, but only playing till you and the Soviet Union have beaten Germany back to it's homeland and then the game ends.

My only solution which I can think of is to make this into a big battle scenario, not a campaign. It should consist of all the areas that were not part of a nations homeland, perhaps leaving out a buffer zone.



I dunno about you but I took the strange view that there was only one dominant power in the world, and that it kept on shelling its own population to force them into having such a life as they did... If you create the perception of your state having enemies that want to kill you, then your less likely to want to suddenly realise how shoddy your own government is (sounds familiar ), even with the thought police and regular 'we love big brother' and room 101 sessions.

I'm pretty sure that that wasn't what Orwell was saying.
 
Last edited:

Zuckergußgebäck

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Blodwen said:
I've been thinking about this scenario for a long time, but there are three massive problems that make it impossible.

1. Every couple of weeks your enemies and allies would have to change. This also goes for the AI, which won't be able to cope with all the redeploying. The only solution is to go against the book and have the war change every year.
As a matter of fact, the alliances didn´t change that often. I interpreted it as changing sides once every year/once every six months.