1945

[unmerged(4762)]

Anyone here read that "1945" book, by Newt Gingrich and.. (damn, I forgot the hstorian writer, will add later editing this) about an alternate history, where Germany did not declare war to the USA in 1941. USA went to fight the "Great Pacific War", trashed Japan by 1944, without the need to speed up its Manhattan projet, while germany won against Russia and settled with Great Britain... in 1945-1946, Hitler, preoccupied by US nuclear program gambles it all by attacking Great Britain and a surprise attack against US nuclear research and production facilities (Los Alamos, and Oak Risge, Tenessee).

I read the book like 10 years ago, re read it this week end, and,m although poor litterature (like a Tom Clancy book) was fun. (is the follow up planned?)

Anyone liked it?

Anyone care to comment on it, as I am developing a TOAW scenario for it....

 

[The Larch]

1945-1946, Hitler, preoccupied by US nuclear program gambles it all by attacking Great Britain and a surprise attack against US nuclear research and production facilities (Los Alamos, and Oak Risge, Tenessee).

How can a surprise attack be made from outside the US against Tenessee and New Mexico?

Personally, I like what ifs as anyone else, but some of them are too far fetched, or directly not feasible.
For instance, this one asumes that Britain would make a separate peace with Germany, that Germany would be able to win against the USSR, and that the US would mind their own business and stick to the Pacific.
I find this three things difficult to happen.

Bye, The Larch.

 

[unmerged(4762)]

the attack in the book, was done using some long range Me-264e bombers, the Tenessee one loaded as gunships and with paratroopers. The planes had to refuel in Martinique Island (French friends to Germany). The Los Alamos one just with bombers (small payload). Paratroopers to flee using commercial airplane and ditch in Atlantic to Submarine rescue... the whole thing let by Skorzey.... a complex plan indeed... the appearance of Oak Risge's sheriff Alvin York of WWI vintage was hilarious in the book...

my TOAW scenario would be an attempt to invade UK by german foreces in april 1946, and the US attempt to releive the UK... (I just run out of TOAW scenarios to play... )

 

[The Larch]

Originally posted by piero
the attack in the book, was done using some long range Me-264e bombers, the Tenessee one loaded as gunships and with paratroopers. The planes had to refuel in Martinique Island (French friends to Germany). The Los Alamos one just with bombers (small payload). Paratroopers to flee using commercial airplane and ditch in Atlantic to Submarine rescue... the whole thing let by Skorzey.... a complex plan indeed... the appearance of Oak Risge's sheriff Alvin York of WWI vintage was hilarious in the book...

How would Germany have those long range bombers, when IRL their planes were all short ranged? When did they change their designs, if the only war they fought was against the USSR, and that would have been a mainly land war?
If Germany fought and won a war against the USSR, I'd expect them to have an even more impressing land army, and deadlier planes, but not longer ranged planes.

Bye, The Larch.

 

[unmerged(4762)]

well, actually the Me264 was a project that came up by 1944, a few prototyped actually flew (similar to a B-29).

Hitler's mad dream was always to develop an "amerika" bomber, plus wouldn't you have wanted to bomb the ural factories?
oh, well...

 

[The Larch]

Originally posted by piero
well, actually the Me264 was a project that came up by 1944, a few prototyped actually flew (similar to a B-29).

Hitler's mad dream was always to develop an "amerika" bomber, plus wouldn't you have wanted to bomb the ural factories?
oh, well...

Mmm, never heard of those german B-29s, but anyway, Hitler had a tad too many mad dreams .
Yup, bombing the Ural factories would be nice, but the russian evacuated factories were well behind the Urals, all over Siberia, so I don't know if that bomber would pay off.

Bye, The Larch.

 

[Aetius]

Considering the fact that the guy who screwed up the german heavy bomber development in the 1930's was still at the helm of the luftwaffe I doubt the german development would get very far

 

[unmerged(4762)]

Originally posted by Aetius
I doubt the german development would get very far

unless it can dive bomb as well, as the He-177 had to...

 

[unmerged(5120)]

Look for the Ju-390 on that page:

http://www.danshistory.com/ww2/germanb.html

They don't mention their sources, though...

 

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I doubt there was any test flight coming 20 miles off the american coast...

another site, with some serious research on german projects is the www.luft46.com site..

 

[Hamilcar]

Wait a second....Newt Gingrich wrote a book? Are we talking about the same Newt Gingrich here?

A new side to a mysterious man named after an amphibious....

 

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yes

yes, that's him.
http://shop.barnesandnoble.com/book...46&bfdate=05-15-2002+05:36:03&isbn=0671876767

funny, one of my friends is one of his cousins. why was this guy so controversial by the way...?

 

[Dark Knight]

Originally posted by piero

funny, one of my friends is one of his cousins. why was this guy so controversial by the way...?

All US politicians are controversial.

He was Republican Speaker of the House of Representatives ("Speaker" means head of the House, unlike in Britain) from 1995-98.

 

[unmerged(4762)]

Originally posted by Dark Knight

All US politicians are controversial.

He was Republican Speaker of the House of Representatives ("Speaker" means head of the House, unlike in Britain) from 1995-98.

and what has he done in da house?

 

[unmerged(6964)]

He came up with a "contract with America". The Contract being that they would adopt increasingly populist, illiberal and religious right pandering laws and in return people would vote for them. It didn't work. People voted for them to get back at Clinton and then gave most of them the shove when that motivation receded. One idea Gingrich's people came up with was to offer very small, achievable policies, rather than soem big five year plan. So you'd say, ok in a year this, this and THIS will have been done. And then a year later you say, ok in the last year we've done this, this and THIS and next year we will do these limited, achievable things etc.

 

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Originally posted by Top Cat
He came up with a "contract with America". The Contract being that they would adopt increasingly populist, illiberal and religious right pandering laws and in return people would vote for them. It didn't work. People voted for them to get back at Clinton and then gave most of them the shove when that motivation receded. One idea Gingrich's people came up with was to offer very small, achievable policies, rather than soem big five year plan. So you'd say, ok in a year this, this and THIS will have been done. And then a year later you say, ok in the last year we've done this, this and THIS and next year we will do these limited, achievable things etc.

The GOP stood for Grand Old Populists back in the mid-90's. People basically voted out the Washington insiders. The problem was that some had so much money and power that it was impossible to get rid of them. In Mass. Kennedy's seat was up for election, and Teddy was losing in early polls. However, he had so much money and connections that his GOP opponent couldn't compete, and Kennedy kept his seat. The main tenants of the contract were that the country should have a balanced budget, and eliminate the trade and domestic deficit. Also, they wanted to defame Clinton for two years so that he would lose to Dole or Buchanan in the '96 election. Unfortunately, Clinton was such a powerful TV presence that no GOP charges stuck to him, and he made Bob Dole look like the old man that he was in 1996, and the Democrats regained the House and closed the gap in the senate. By 1998, Gingrinch resigned his seat, and Dennis Hastert of Illinois became Speaker of the House.

 

[Dark Knight]

Originally posted by piero

and what has he done in da house?

During the 1994 Congressional campaigning, he came out with the Contract for America that provided for a number of items the House would vote on if the Republicans won control of it. His most important achievement was to alter the US welfare system. Obviously, this greatly angered the media establishment who completely demonized him.

Originally posted by Top Cat
...religious right pandering laws...

Well, there is one mention of God in a quote by Lincoln in the introduction...but none of the proposed policy changes are particularly religious. In fact, Gingrich was seen as something of a technocrat.

Originally posted by BRYCON316
...in 1996, and the Democrats regained the House and closed the gap in the senate.

Unless I really missed something, the Democrats never took back control of the house. They did regain control of the Senate, but that happened just last year.

 

[unmerged(4762)]

any chances he finishes the sequel of his book then?

 

[unmerged(1057)]

Originally posted by piero
Anyone here read that "1945" book, by Newt Gingrich and.. (damn, I forgot the hstorian writer, will add later editing this) about an alternate history, where Germany did not declare war to the USA in 1941. USA went to fight the "Great Pacific War", trashed Japan by 1944, without the need to speed up its Manhattan projet, while germany won against Russia and settled with Great Britain... in 1945-1946, Hitler, preoccupied by US nuclear program gambles it all by attacking Great Britain and a surprise attack against US nuclear research and production facilities (Los Alamos, and Oak Risge, Tenessee).

I read the book like 10 years ago, re read it this week end, and,m although poor litterature (like a Tom Clancy book) was fun. (is the follow up planned?)

Anyone liked it?

Anyone care to comment on it, as I am developing a TOAW scenario for it....

Never heard about it....but now I must read it..

 

[unmerged(6657)]

I believe that Uncle Newtie was a teacher/professor in Georgia before he began his political career. I didn't know he wrote anthing other than his bio that came out during the Clinton-GOP war.

the GOP lost control of the Senate when a Republican changed to independent, and changed his views to more liberal views online with the Democrats. Also, if Gore would have been elected, the Democrats would have had the majority, as the Senate was split 50-50, and Joe Lieberman would have been the deciding vote. The GOP retained control when Cheney became the deciding vote.