1943....east of Stalingrad.....ver 1.09

[bshirt73]

Commander666;

I started another game because I want to have at least one strong naval fleet (with some carriers) for those damn Brits.

Maximizing one's ESE is important, but the bigger thing is downsizing one's army (build for value, not volume) and having a strategy that will result in the SU army only decreasing in size (50 divisions at a time is appropriate). If you fail to eliminate huge pockets soon after Barbarossa starts, you will end up needing too much army too far past the Barbarossa line battling too many new SU divisions and so causing too high a TC overload in spite of all done best to maximize TC.

Oh yeah, I'm been surrounding & cremating boatloads of Ivan's army everywhere since day one in Barbarossa. It's just amazing how much endless reserves he has. But there's a limit to everything & soon he'll start really being a hurting camper. But for awhile I'll need a big & vicious Wehrmacht crushing him like a bug until bitter peace.

Well, I build Bismarcks and much more navy from start. However, we can expect the RN and/or USN to be stronger. However, with having CAGs, NAVs, subs, marines and paratroopers there is usually some way for German player to get a landing in the Isles. One strategy (which doesn’t build any navy except some TPs and lots of SS) is to use only subs to block the ends of the English Channel while your marines assisted by paratroopers attack the provinces in the south. Maybe attacking several provinces to get spoiling attacks so the defender can't move reinforcements to your main attack might be good. Clearly, you probably want to minimize the time your forces need be at sea.


Wow, what an idea! I'll remember that and give it try sometime for sure. But for this game, it'll be a blast to see if my improved carriers & the rest can somewhat hold their own. Everything naval except some destroyers with upgraded AA. We'll hope for the best.

Alternately, being driven back into the sea facing overwhelming odds, or losing some panzer corps as their transports get sunk, or having paratroopers slaughtered as they fail to land all lend spice to playing AoD.

Haha! Well said Commander66. Well said indeed. AoD is sensational!

 

[MihaiROU]

I had the same issue. I'd destroy most of the Soviet Army and by August 1941 I captured Moscow and Stalingrad, then in Siberia I'd get lots of attrition before the "Bitter Peace" event fired.
One elegant way to solve this is for the people working on the game to make the event fire after Leningrad, Moscow, Stalingrad and Baku are captured (you can also modify the event files yourself). Other methods I can think of:
1) use the console to fire the event yourself (I find it annoying that I reached Manchuria before the event fired and I lost all my progress in Siberia);
2) just wait outside Siberia and start building infrastructure linking Berlin to Stalingrad and to your current frontline, and plan a new offensive for the next summer with fully rested and very fast units.

 

[Pang Bingxun]

Wow, what an idea! I'll remember that and give it try sometime for sure. But for this game, it'll be a blast to see if my improved carriers & the rest can somewhat hold their own. Everything naval except some destroyers with upgraded AA. We'll hope for the best.

Carriers have 3 main weaknesses.

1. Weak early CAG. From CV1943 on you can upgrade the CAG to a versions that has some serios firepower, but of course still much less than any battleship. Before CAG1943 however firepower is even lower. In 1938 sea attack is 6 per CAG, in 1941 it is 8, in tech level 1943 it is 10.

2. Poor early doctrines. Imo one does at least need the second 1940 doctrine "long range operations". That increases positioning to between 32.5% and 75%. In 1943 it increases to between 40% and 90%, in 1944 to between 45% and 100%.

3. Bad weather. During night, storm, or severe winter Carriers are sitting duck. The later doctrines minimize that problem, but it will still be serios. In the north sea weather tends to be disfavourable for Carriers, so against your first big enemy the UK they are not too useful.

If you try a strong navy early you will certainly be limited by 1 and 2. Add 3 and strategically all ingredients for a naval disaster will be present. It will of course not be a guaranteed disaster, an early navy can eventually pay of. But cost and risks are substancial, therefore it can be advisable to not start any significant naval construction before 1941.

I had the same issue. I'd destroy most of the Soviet Army and by August 1941 I captured Moscow and Stalingrad, then in Siberia I'd get lots of attrition before the "Bitter Peace" event fired.

What you need to do is to take Sverdlovsk. After that BP will trigger with a chance of 35% every 10 days. Simply waiting there will suffice.

2) just wait outside Siberia and start building infrastructure linking Berlin to Stalingrad and to your current frontline, and plan a new offensive for the next summer with fully rested and very fast units.

This however, while somewhat reasonable, is giving USSR the opportunity to build quite some army in the winter. So it is better to wait just inside Siberia. Fight at the urals with high Infra and try to keep enemy Infra low. Building up Infra for better ESE will very likely not be relevant till BP, it takes till Bitter Peace expires to pay off.

 

[bshirt73]

Pang;

Greetings compadre'!

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Carriers have 3 main weaknesses.

1. Weak early CAG. From CV1943 on you can upgrade the CAG to a versions that has some serios firepower, but of course still much less than any battleship. Before CAG1943 however firepower is even lower. In 1938 sea attack is 6 per CAG, in 1941 it is 8, in tech level 1943 it is 10.

2. Poor early doctrines. Imo one does at least need the second 1940 doctrine "long range operations". That increases positioning to between 32.5% and 75%. In 1943 it increases to between 40% and 90%, in 1944 to between 45% and 100%.

3. Bad weather. During night, storm, or severe winter Carriers are sitting duck. The later doctrines minimize that problem, but it will still be serios. In the north sea weather tends to be disfavourable for Carriers, so against your first big enemy the UK they are not too useful.

If you try a strong navy early you will certainly be limited by 1 and 2. Add 3 and strategically all ingredients for a naval disaster will be present. It will of course not be a guaranteed disaster, an early navy can eventually pay of. But cost and risks are substancial, therefore it can be advisable to not start any significant naval construction before 1941.

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Oh wow......I didn't know any of this. :-( I should have asked you before I did it. Well, I'm building lots of CA's, BC's & destroyers and except for some destroyers (w/ASW) they all have the AA option. Maybe that might keep me from total destruction from those bloody USA & British carriers.

Oh well, bitter peace is done (thanks to Pang & Commander666's keen advice!) & the stupid leadership of Republic of Spain declared war on me. BIG mistake. Gibraltar will be ours soon.

You better believe I won't make that mistake again. But maybe I'll get some dumb luck. This game is wayyyyyy to fun to start over now. Thank you so very much for the good scoop once yet again Pang!!

 

[bshirt73]

Pang;

Where is "long range operations"?

 

[Pang Bingxun]

Well, I'm building lots of CA's, BC's & destroyers and except for some destroyers (w/ASW) they all have the AA option. Maybe that might keep me from total destruction from those bloody USA & British carriers.

AA does not help against Carriers. AA helps only against air units. CAGs donnot count as air units, they are just a regular naval brigade.

As for the BC, they might be the best choice available early on. The 1938 BC has adequate firepower, good speed and range and all that at affordable prices. Skipping both BB and CA in favour of many BC might help. Against a huge BB-fleet they might still lose. But such battles are best avoided unless your naval bombers make sure they will result in victory.

Where is "long range operations"?

In the second segment of the Base strike doctrine tree. For utilizing carriers you need to use this tree, so abandon the sea line interdiction doctrine tree doctrine by doctrine until you can research Base Strike.

 

[bshirt73]

Wow......more unexplored territory for me.

Thank you sir!!

ps.....hmmmmm, how do I abandon the sea line interdiction doctrine ???

 

[MagooNZ]

In turn, select all of the currently researched doctrines in the sea lane? interdiction path. In one of them (the most advanced) there should appear the Abandon Doctrine button, press it. Then repeat until you go all the way back to the near the start, stop once Base Strike doctrine is able to be researched. I believe that Pang has already shown you the Abandon Doctrine button in his print, this is "Doktrin aufgeben" Doktrin means Doctrine, aufgeben means abandon/abandonment.

I recall I tried something similar one time and I could only partially abandon back to where I wanted to get, so good luck with this, most times this works.

 

[bshirt73]

Oh. very good. Thank you so kindly MagooNZ!!

 

[MihaiROU]

What you need to do is to take Sverdlovsk. After that BP will trigger with a chance of 35% every 10 days. Simply waiting there will suffice.

The attrition is still super high, you basically lose more manpower while moving in Siberia than you do fighting the Soviets.

This however, while somewhat reasonable, is giving USSR the opportunity to build quite some army in the winter. So it is better to wait just inside Siberia. Fight at the urals with high Infra and try to keep enemy Infra low. Building up Infra for better ESE will very likely not be relevant till BP, it takes till Bitter Peace expires to pay off.

It's realistic however, the Germans would stop somewhere near the Urals to refit and resupply during the winter and prepare to conquer the USSR in the following spring or summer. I haven't yet tested where the German army should be placed for it to not take casualties during winter. The game is weird as it is, you might lose manpower even if you stay and you'll lose lots of manpower if you move into Siberia, so you're probably right, just move into the province you need for the event to fire and then just wait...

 

[stevep]

AA does not help against Carriers. AA helps only against air units. CAGs donnot count as air units, they are just a regular naval brigade.

Pang

Just to check I'm reading this correctly please? CAGs do not count as air units and won't take losses from AA? Would that include land based AA as well? That seems very strange as in real life ship bases AA was very significant in defending against carrier attack, especially later in the war when proxy fuses were available. Do they take losses from defending aircraft? If not basically it sounds like their pretty much invulnerable and you can only stop them attacking by sinking/damaging the carriers.

Steve

 

[Pang Bingxun]

The attrition is still super high, you basically lose more manpower while moving in Siberia than you do fighting the Soviets.

Then donnot move. Attrition is high while you move and while you are in subartic climate during winter. Avoid both and regular attrition will be low and outweighted by the hostile front attrition. That however can be eliminated by forcing nearby enemies into retreat. But donnot persue!

Also units unable to move donnot suffer hostile front attrition. That includes garrision, but it also includes "locked" divisions like the US infantry division in Manilla.

Regular attrition on the other hand is cut by 50% by logistic wizards. Those LWs save quite some manpower.

 

[Pang Bingxun]

Just to check I'm reading this correctly please? CAGs do not count as air units and won't take losses from AA?

Yes.

Would that include land based AA as well?

I donnot understand your question. Neither static AA nor the AA brigade are involved in sea battles, are they?

Do they take losses from defending aircraft?

Carriers suffer losses if they are attacked by enemy CV-CAG.
Carriers suffer losses if they are attacked by enemy bombers at open sea or in their home port.
Carriers suffer losses if their CAG attacks a naval base that is protected by air units currently stationed at an air base in the same province.

CAGs are a part of the CV they are attached too. So CAGs are unable to suffer loses, only the CV can take losses. And of course the CAG will sink if the CV does.

 

[MihaiROU]

Then donnot move. Attrition is high while you move and while you are in subartic climate during winter. Avoid both and regular attrition will be low and outweighted by the hostile front attrition. That however can be eliminated by forcing nearby enemies into retreat. But donnot persue!

Also units unable to move donnot suffer hostile front attrition. That includes garrision, but it also includes "locked" divisions like the US infantry division in Manilla.

Regular attrition on the other hand is cut by 50% by logistic wizards. Those LWs save quite some manpower.

Nice, I'll change my generals and minister right after I destroy the Soviets and see how well I do. This was my campaign btw, I did a derp with Baku, should have left a garrison there but I did not and a retreating Soviet army captured it, I also modified the game so Hungary got "Bacau" (it's wrongly named and placed by the producers): https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwhhN-t-C6BObHlzdExCY21sdGM/view?usp=sharing

 

[stevep]

I donnot understand your question. Neither static AA nor the AA brigade are involved in sea battles, are they?



Carriers suffer losses if they are attacked by enemy CV-CAG.
Carriers suffer losses if they are attacked by enemy bombers at open sea or in their home port.
Carriers suffer losses if their CAG attacks a naval base that is protected by air units currently stationed at an air base in the same province.

CAGs are a part of the CV they are attached too. So CAGs are unable to suffer loses, only the CV can take losses. And of course the CAG will sink if the CV does.

Pang

What I meant was if a CAG attacked say a port or other land target which was defended by land based AA units. However I think the point highlighted above answers my question. Thanks. I never considered that point, although with my limited game experienced I've never fought a battle involving CVs, at least on my side.

Steve

 

[Zsar1]

CAGs do not count as air units and won't take losses from AA?

Yes.

Actually, it's a bit more convoluted. From memory:

If the fleet containing a carrier is defending, that carrier will be damaged by sea attack.
If the fleet containing a carrier is attacking, that carrier will be damaged by air attack.

... At least in 1.07 and in 1.10.