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There are 2 sensible interpretations. It is the amount of units a production line will produce. Or it is the amount of time that will be needed for that. The production menu will give you an estimate about that, but as technologies, ministers and sliders change it can change, in fact it can change considerably.
The assembly line techs come a bit late for building the bulk of your army, but assembly line experimention may come just in time in early 1939. It increases the maximum gearing bonus from 26% to 36%. That is prior to sliders. It is generally accepted that a professional army is much preferable to a drafted army. At full professional army it is only 23.4% vs. 32.4%, that is up to 13.3% more units per day. I usually try to optimize my production line to not complete the sixth unit prior to assembly line experimention. As it also increases efficiency of supply production. It is quite a neat way to optimize building schemes.
It is a production line of units that according to my investition is best relatively long like for armour and bombers. It is longer than 24 months.
In practise it can be reasonable to start some production lines of Mot1938-SpArt1938 after Anschluss. That way you can have a strong mobile force early on and that in a way is all Blitzkrieg is about.
Haha.....just got the bitter peace!
That is probably good news. But how are you now going to get to the rares? All 3 provinces with 40 base rares are east of the new border.
"That is probably good news. But how are you now going to get to the rares? All 3 provinces with 40 base rares are east of the new border."
Oh Pang.......auuuugh!!! You're right. Oh crap.........:-(
Holy Moly. I assume you turn that down then, correct? What do you usually do? Does Ivan simply surrender sometime later if you keep going north & east?
Oh Pang.......auuuugh!!! You're right. Oh crap.........:-(
Holy Moly. I assume you turn that down then, correct? What do you usually do? Does Ivan simply surrender sometime later if you keep going north & east?
That would be costly.
No. Bitter peace already is the Surrender. So you would need to annex the entire soviet union. That will be quite costly, but there are some arguments in favour of it so that might actually be what i usually do. But i would not go so far to call that advisable, there are severe downsides to that.
One sensible approach is to avoid or delay the event. One way to do that is to not take Baku or Stalingrad or Leningrad or Moskau. Letting Stalin survive in Stalingrad until the end of the war seems somewhat sensible.
While Bitter Peace is prevented to trigger you can do 2 things: Try to annex soviet union or created puppets to secure what you desire. Kasachstan has cores on 2 of the rare provinces, the Transuralrepublic should give you the third one. After properly releasing those 2 puppets you can let Bitter Peace trigger and of course accept it. Or you can release some further puppets. Those south of Kasachstan and Siberia but in the later case there will be little left of soviet union, so than you might as well finish the job and release Primorsk with Vladivostok as its capital. In Siberia your ESE would be truely challenging and in winter there is subject to subartic climate letting your attrition skyrocket. So Transuralrepublic, Kasachstan and the several smaller puppets south of Kasachstan should really suffice.
"No. Bitter peace already is the Surrender. So you would need to annex the entire soviet union. That will be quite costly, but there are some arguments in favour of it so that might actually be what i usually do. But i would not go so far to call that advisable, there are severe downsides to that."
Hmmmm.......well, no balls no glory. Let's see what happens to turning it down. I simply "must" have those rares. it's too late to give Stalin one of those provinces now anyway. This is unexplored territory for me. But it's incredibly funi!
Just annexed Persia. Will be having fun with England & the USA ground troops soon. Vicious air fights all over Germany & France. Wow. Especially around Dortmand, Essen, Cologne, etc.
Having to eat 15 dissent isn't good. But..........we'll see!
Thank you Pang!!
Hmmmm.......well, no balls no glory. Let's see what happens to turning it down. I simply "must" have those rares. it's too late to give Stalin one of those provinces now anyway. This is unexplored territory for me. But it's incredibly funi!
Just annexed Persia. Will be having fun with England & the USA ground troops soon. Vicious air fights all over Germany & France. Wow. Especially around Dortmand, Essen, Cologne, etc.
Having to eat 15 dissent isn't good. But..........we'll see!
Thank you Pang!!
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Soviet union will receive a dissent hit of 27% from Bitter Peace. That is great opportunity for a coup d'etat. By using spies you can overthrow the new soviet government and make soviet union become a nazi friendly russia you can invite into axis and it will be happy to trade those rares with you.
That is putting it mildly. This will directly reduce your combat performence, further partisans will increase your tc load, reduce your resource production and your ic. In total your used tc/usable tc ratio will skyrocket. Your ESE will drop sharply and will drop further because of partisan activity. Rejecting Bitter Peace is sort of insane.
That is putting it mildly. This will directly reduce your combat performence, further partisans will increase your tc load, reduce your resource production and your ic. In total your used tc/usable tc ratio will skyrocket. Your ESE will drop sharply and will drop further because of partisan activity. Rejecting Bitter Peace is sort of insane.
Yep, it's rough sledding for everything with that huge hit of dissent. Ouch! But having rares that I desperately need is a huge asset too. I just gotta hang tough and hold on for the dissent reduction. Oh boy......
Haha, I guess I'm just an insane kind of guy. But if I can survive this we're gonna be tough for the Allies to deal with I think. With rares & oil the Allies are going to have their hands full.
Haha, I guess I'm just an insane kind of guy.
But if I can survive this we're gonna be tough for the Allies to deal with I think. With rares & oil the Allies are going to have their hands full.Pang;
How does how much foreign manpower work? Does that or can that make a big difference?
How does how much foreign manpower work? Does that or can that make a big difference?
Hey Pang!
heh.....I changed my mind. That dissent hit is just too brutal. Combined with having to keep a fairly strong wayyyy northern line.....well, I've re-considered.
As you just mentioned due to the high dissent my Luftwaffe got cremated.
heh.....I changed my mind. That dissent hit is just too brutal. Combined with having to keep a fairly strong wayyyy northern line.....well, I've re-considered.
As you just mentioned due to the high dissent my Luftwaffe got cremated.
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Those two provinces help boatloads for bringing my army supplied up for fully smashing through Armavil & so on into the mountains.
The advantage of using the coast for overseas ESE transfer is not that the high ESE is limited to two provinces inland, but that the 3rd province inland will still have far higher ESE than the trace from Berlin (if the line to Rostock outlet was built properly). Further - if there is no drop in infra as you go from the coast, then whatever ESE you get at the coast, all following provinces will get about 1% less (a drop of only 1% ESE/per additional province being a rough average for the map, and sometimes no drop if small province).
So it is really not limited to 2 provinces inland. Assuming you have 150 ESE at Rostock, you might get 120 ESE at Leningrad. Now, if all following provinces were same infra as Leningrad, you could expect only a 1% ESE lessening per additional province travelled.
However, if there is a drop in infra in the line then there will be huge additional ESE drop. That drop happens in the next two provinces and is actually what is being referred to. This is what happens at Leningrad if it has 200 infra and then following provinces only 60 infra. There will be a huge drop from Leningrad to next province, and from that province to next. But then ESE along line drops only 1% more per province as long as infra does not decrease. But, this situation is still more ESE at Moscow than if doing land trace from Berlin because that ESE also drops severely with any lowering in infra. Hence, at 3rd province from Berlin, there has occurred a huge drop in ESE.
Additionally, whatever one believes, it gets extremely handy when naval bases like Batum in the Black Sea exist "within 2 provinces" of your forces committing an attack on oil rich Baku. It is even handier when panzers take Karachi and enjoy new starting ESE at about 100% or better for the conquest of India.
But to really understand this well, one needs to study the map for the ESE traces. As you now have a 200 infra Rostock, if you can post your file save with farthest advance, I will do a screen shot and on the relevant provinces print the ESE numbers so readers can instantly see the importance of creating a maximum outlet for overseas ESE (Rostock in the case of Germany).
It can make a big difference by increasing daily gross gain of manpower to more than 2 if you take russia, india, china and most of europa. In fact europa has more manpower than china. The difference by foreign manpower however is only because there simply is so much foreign manpower while the "yield" on it is very low. Prior to ministers you get up to 10% of the manpower you get from national provinces. The Goebbels type of minister will increase it by 10% to 11%. So liberating nations is about ten times more effective for "harvesting" manpower. Managing many puppets can be a bit of a hassle, so i rather keep the number of puppets and allies low, but that is more a subjective preference than an "objective" reason.
Medium and long term puppets are a no brainer. They take 100% of the lands manpower & industry & resources Which is 10x more manpower and around 2.5x more industry & resources then a foreign owner could achieve.
The main downside is dissent, which is why puppets don't pay off short term (I.e first few months).
The main downside is dissent, which is why puppets don't pay off short term (I.e first few months).
In a way you are right about this, but there are some limitations. Puppets will be behind in tech and they donnot do what one wants them to do in the desired precision. This minimizes the long term net disadvantage from not puppeting severely and thus possibly to likely making it unreasonable to librate them as the accumulated net advantage till the estimated end of the war will be negative. Using the few puppets with lots of manpower or rares seems somewhat reasonable to me. They can then be gifted garrisions divisions which can utilized to supresses partisans in areas without puppets.
In few cases puppets can take away the advantages of a land connection for supplies and also the utilization of manpower.
Is it worthwhile taking the divs that the puppet produces, restoring their manpower, and incorporating them into the master's army? It was mentioned in HoI2 that following this procedure gave the master a lower manpower and ICd burden than if the master created these divs in the normal way. The master will have superior organisation and doctrines providing combat benefits.
Creating new puppets after annexing (or occupying & controlling territory) means that the puppet is technologically advanced. However a forced puppet without annex is still behind in technology (cant remember what the dissent hit, if any, is for this). Still the master can give them blueprints to help catch up in some areas.
Democratic (or is it the other slider) countries releasing puppets don't get a big dissent hit; 0.5% compared with 5% although size of puppet is a factor.
Pang, I don't understand:
Do you mean the master gives the puppet Gar divs as expeditionary forces, then the master moves them to occupied territory to suppress dissent? I would be inclined to go the other way and make the puppet give divs to the master.
Creating new puppets after annexing (or occupying & controlling territory) means that the puppet is technologically advanced. However a forced puppet without annex is still behind in technology (cant remember what the dissent hit, if any, is for this). Still the master can give them blueprints to help catch up in some areas.
Democratic (or is it the other slider) countries releasing puppets don't get a big dissent hit; 0.5% compared with 5% although size of puppet is a factor.
Pang, I don't understand:
Do you mean the master gives the puppet Gar divs as expeditionary forces, then the master moves them to occupied territory to suppress dissent? I would be inclined to go the other way and make the puppet give divs to the master.
In HoI2 the manpower needed for reinforcement was set to 80%. In AoD it is 100%, therefore this strategy will not work properly anymore. But reinforcing will still be much more icd efficient than building.
Some techs will not be transfered. Puppets with few tech slots will soon be outpaced in reserach.
The idea is to sell them to the puppet. The puppet will then have to reinforce them. 50% strenght can be quite fine, that way you can have twice the amount of garrisions. Quantity is better than quality there.
Commander666;
"The advantage of using the coast for overseas ESE transfer is not that the high ESE is limited to two provinces inland, but that the 3rd province inland will still have far higher ESE than the trace from Berlin (if the line to Rostock outlet was built properly). Further - if there is no drop in infra as you go from the coast, then whatever ESE you get at the coast, all following provinces will get about 1% less (a drop of only 1% ESE/per additional province being a rough average for the map, and sometimes no drop if small province).
So it is really not limited to 2 provinces inland. Assuming you have 150 ESE at Rostock, you might get 120 ESE at Leningrad. Now, if all following provinces were same infra as Leningrad, you could expect only a 1% ESE lessening per additional province travelled.
However, if there is a drop in infra in the line then there will be huge additional ESE drop. That drop happens in the next two provinces and is actually what is being referred to. This is what happens at Leningrad if it has 200 infra and then following provinces only 60 infra. There will be a huge drop from Leningrad to next province, and from that province to next. But then ESE along line drops only 1% more per province as long as infra does not decrease. But, this situation is still more ESE at Moscow than if doing land trace from Berlin because that ESE also drops severely with any lowering in infra. Hence, at 3rd province from Berlin, there has occurred a huge drop in ESE.
Additionally, whatever one believes, it gets extremely handy when naval bases like Batum in the Black Sea exist "within 2 provinces" of your forces committing an attack on oil rich Baku. It is even handier when panzers take Karachi and enjoy new starting ESE at about 100% or better for the conquest of India.
But to really understand this well, one needs to study the map for the ESE traces. As you now have a 200 infra Rostock, if you can post your file save with farthest advance, I will do a screen shot and on the relevant provinces print the ESE numbers so readers can instantly see the importance of creating a maximum outlet for overseas ESE (Rostock in the case of Germany)."
Sadly my kind sir due to my inept computer skills posting my file just doesn't work for me. I've tried about 20 times with no luck. Just frustration.
Geesh, Commander666, this information is simply priceless. I've previously played three different games but still got horribly stuck east of Stalingrad each time. I see now it's largely due to me having my whole bloody army to the far east which is a huge strain. "But" your solution gives my style of playing a way to make it work. Just a titanic difference.
Commander666, while off topic, could I ask you & Pang another question? Now that Ivan is taken care of it's really kind of boring. Already took back India & almost all of Africa. But how to attack England or the USA is just over my head. It seems it would be almost impossible to build a Navy strong enough to have a successful invasion. I think my Luftwaffe could blast a hole through the air to England but their Navy (& USA's) would be very, very difficult I think. Surly there must be way? This is new territory for me and (as always) I would greatly appreciate you and/or Pang's insight.
Thanks a million Commander666!
"The advantage of using the coast for overseas ESE transfer is not that the high ESE is limited to two provinces inland, but that the 3rd province inland will still have far higher ESE than the trace from Berlin (if the line to Rostock outlet was built properly). Further - if there is no drop in infra as you go from the coast, then whatever ESE you get at the coast, all following provinces will get about 1% less (a drop of only 1% ESE/per additional province being a rough average for the map, and sometimes no drop if small province).
So it is really not limited to 2 provinces inland. Assuming you have 150 ESE at Rostock, you might get 120 ESE at Leningrad. Now, if all following provinces were same infra as Leningrad, you could expect only a 1% ESE lessening per additional province travelled.
However, if there is a drop in infra in the line then there will be huge additional ESE drop. That drop happens in the next two provinces and is actually what is being referred to. This is what happens at Leningrad if it has 200 infra and then following provinces only 60 infra. There will be a huge drop from Leningrad to next province, and from that province to next. But then ESE along line drops only 1% more per province as long as infra does not decrease. But, this situation is still more ESE at Moscow than if doing land trace from Berlin because that ESE also drops severely with any lowering in infra. Hence, at 3rd province from Berlin, there has occurred a huge drop in ESE.
Additionally, whatever one believes, it gets extremely handy when naval bases like Batum in the Black Sea exist "within 2 provinces" of your forces committing an attack on oil rich Baku. It is even handier when panzers take Karachi and enjoy new starting ESE at about 100% or better for the conquest of India.
But to really understand this well, one needs to study the map for the ESE traces. As you now have a 200 infra Rostock, if you can post your file save with farthest advance, I will do a screen shot and on the relevant provinces print the ESE numbers so readers can instantly see the importance of creating a maximum outlet for overseas ESE (Rostock in the case of Germany)."
Sadly my kind sir due to my inept computer skills posting my file just doesn't work for me. I've tried about 20 times with no luck. Just frustration.
Geesh, Commander666, this information is simply priceless. I've previously played three different games but still got horribly stuck east of Stalingrad each time. I see now it's largely due to me having my whole bloody army to the far east which is a huge strain. "But" your solution gives my style of playing a way to make it work. Just a titanic difference.
Commander666, while off topic, could I ask you & Pang another question? Now that Ivan is taken care of it's really kind of boring. Already took back India & almost all of Africa. But how to attack England or the USA is just over my head. It seems it would be almost impossible to build a Navy strong enough to have a successful invasion. I think my Luftwaffe could blast a hole through the air to England but their Navy (& USA's) would be very, very difficult I think. Surly there must be way? This is new territory for me and (as always) I would greatly appreciate you and/or Pang's insight.
Thanks a million Commander666!
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Pang;
"It can make a big difference by increasing daily gross gain of manpower to more than 2 if you take russia, india, china and most of europa. In fact europa has more manpower than china. The difference by foreign manpower however is only because there simply is so much foreign manpower while the "yield" on it is very low. Prior to ministers you get up to 10% of the manpower you get from national provinces. The Goebbels type of minister will increase it by 10% to 11%. So liberating nations is about ten times more effective for "harvesting" manpower. Managing many puppets can be a bit of a hassle, so i rather keep the number of puppets and allies low, but that is more a subjective preference than an "objective" reason."
Oh, I see......That explains it completely. Thank you sir!
I would have never guessed there's more manpower in Europe than China. Very interesting. Maybe puppet the Ukraine? Maybe that would work ok with Ivan out of the picture?
"It can make a big difference by increasing daily gross gain of manpower to more than 2 if you take russia, india, china and most of europa. In fact europa has more manpower than china. The difference by foreign manpower however is only because there simply is so much foreign manpower while the "yield" on it is very low. Prior to ministers you get up to 10% of the manpower you get from national provinces. The Goebbels type of minister will increase it by 10% to 11%. So liberating nations is about ten times more effective for "harvesting" manpower. Managing many puppets can be a bit of a hassle, so i rather keep the number of puppets and allies low, but that is more a subjective preference than an "objective" reason."
Oh, I see......That explains it completely. Thank you sir!
I would have never guessed there's more manpower in Europe than China. Very interesting. Maybe puppet the Ukraine? Maybe that would work ok with Ivan out of the picture?
The ukraine is a relatively good puppet. Not too small, not too little manpower. But the opposite of your logic seems more applicable. Releasing the ukraine long before bitter peace helps a lot. Once you own the territory anyway the relative usefulness of a puppet is reduced. Still i expect there are not few player who would advise you in favour of liberating it even now.
The most important thing seems to abandon your naval doctrines in favour of Base Strike. This leaves your navy weak while your are struggling to reduce your backwardsness there, but in the long run it helps a lot.
Once you have the 1941 technology for Carriers you can build 18 of them at once. Before using them in battle you best upgrade the CAG to tech level 1943 or better. Together with proper naval doctrines 3 seperate fleets of 6 CV1941-Cag1943 and 6 DD1941-ASW1943 are a powerful naval force. One important thing to consider about naval warfare is that it might take quite some time till all enemies are sunk. Repairing your fleet may take months and your enemy might do the same. Take that into account, his fleet may leve port when it is least convenient for you.
Taking the UK mainland is not so hard, the Luftwaffe should be able to take care of the fleets there. A strong force of naval bombers is the key. 16 to 32 Nav1943-Esc1943 will do some bloody sinking of anything that dare to move into their range, 16 to 32 Tac1943-Esc1943 can support them and more importantly can support the final invasion. CAS is much better for that of course.
Once the UK mainland is taken your have the opportunity to release England as a puppet. Do it.
No problem, I found a file of another and am just finishing his Barbarossa to let me do screen shots that will help illustrate. I already got the screens but need time to present them. What they already reveal is fascinating.
Maximizing one's ESE is important, but the bigger thing is downsizing one's army (build for value, not volume) and having a strategy that will result in the SU army only decreasing in size (50 divisions at a time is appropriate). If you fail to eliminate huge pockets soon after Barbarossa starts, you will end up needing too much army too far past the Barbarossa line battling too many new SU divisions and so causing too high a TC overload in spite of all done best to maximize TC.
Well, I build Bismarcks and much more navy from start. However, we can expect the RN and/or USN to be stronger. However, with having CAGs, NAVs, subs, marines and paratroopers there is usually some way for German player to get a landing in the Isles. One strategy (which doesn’t build any navy except some TPs and lots of SS) is to use only subs to block the ends of the English Channel while your marines assisted by paratroopers attack the provinces in the south. Maybe attacking several provinces to get spoiling attacks so the defender can't move reinforcements to your main attack might be good. Clearly, you probably want to minimize the time your forces need be at sea.
The above is the strategy in the game file I was given. That guy only build many subs and 10 TPs but kept the historical German navy path and concentrated on sub doctrines. The UK is so crippled that they are out of convoys, and no rares so their IC has dropped to pitiful levels. They can't build anything and the Isles are only defended by 1 GAR most places. The U-boats even slaughtered much of the RN. He doesn't have a single NAV or CAG, nor did he build a single TAC or any FTR. But his INT have complete air dominance, and he will easily win several beach heads simultaneously using his 9 PARA and 8 MAR because he's doing it just before the USA enters the war. Recently the "last best British fleet" met 18 U-boats and took a terrible beating.
But the other concern is what one does once they get a landing. Hopefully you will have enough transports to ferry across a small army quickly because – depending on what player has done before to cripple the UK, there might be waiting for you nothing but garrisons… or a real army!
Alternately, being driven back into the sea facing overwhelming odds, or losing some panzer corps as their transports get sunk, or having paratroopers slaughtered as they fail to land all lend spice to playing AoD.
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