1936 Naval OOB (AKA Navy Suggestions)

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Suggestions for the navies...

I am going to start doing a comparison on navies and ships for many minor nations - on the line of the naval OoB suggestions I have made before.

I was thinking like this:

Destroyer type 0 = old torpedo boats, old destroyers (ww1 vintage)

Destroyer type 1 = modern destroyers

Destroyer type 2 = destroyer leaders

Cruiser type 0 = old light cruiser

Cruiser type 1 = modern light cruiser, old heavy cruiser, old coastal defence ships, monitors

Cruiser type 2 = modern heavy cruiser, small modern coastal defence ships

Pre-dreadnough battleship = old coastal defence ships, pre-dreadnought battleships

Will look more into the various battleship types and make suggestions. Few minor nations had any real I might suggest more AA, NA or GD or lowered of the same for some ships

Many of the minor nations navies are a bit under-powered. I will also make tech addition suggestions, as some nations had extensive warf and shipbuildign capactiy (Sweden, the Netherlands and Spain, for example).

I'll also try to make a list for the different levels of cruisers classes for the different minor nations.

 

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Royal Hellenic Navy

Hello guys,
long time reader first time post. Im playing with the 1.04 patch but was wondering if the Greek navy has been changed since then or unofficially for the next patch? As it stands in 1.04 it’s missing a bit in the way of its historical capital ships. I don’t know about what you guys want to define each ship as within HOI so I will include some info for the missing ships:

Lemnos & Kilkis (pre-dreadnought battleships)
13000 tons displacement, 14500 tns full load
2X2-12inch guns, 4X2-8 inch guns, 1X8-7inch guns
9" belt, 3" deck armor
12 knots
ex USA Mississippi and Idaho, laid down 1904, launched 1908, sold to Greece 1914.
Sunk at anchor, 1940 by German dive bombers

Giorgios Averoff (Armored Cruiser)
10,000 tons (full load est 13000)
2X2-9.2 guns, 4X2-7.5 guns, 3-18" torpedo tubes
8" belt, 3.25" deck armor
22.5-24 knots
laid down 1905, launched 1910

Yavuz (battlecruiser)
5X2-11inch guns, 1X12-5.9inch guns, 4-19.7inch torpedo tubes
22,600 tons, full load est=25,000 tons
11" belt, 3.25" deck armor
23-25 knots
launched 1911 as SMS Goeben

so I guess thats 2 pre-war dreadnoughts and a pair of low end cruisers? once again if these changes have been made or previously discussed my apologies. what does everyone think?

 

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Uhm... Yavuz served in the Turkish navy, not the Greek

One of the pre-dreadnought battleships are in, the Kilkis - the Lemnos had her guns removed 1932.

Som our Greek navy looks like this:

Battleship type 0:
Kilkis

Cruisers type 1:
Georgios Averof

Cruisers type 0:
Ellis

Proposed Destroyer Squadrons (each of 5 ships)
type 1: 1
type 0: 1

Proposed Submarine Flottilas (each of 5 boats)
type 1: 1

Starting Escorts 1936: 15

 

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Originally posted by von Adler
Lets leave KNM in, it looks good.

 

[Vulture]

Originally posted by von Adler
Uhm... Yavuz served in the Turkish navy, not the Greek

One of the pre-dreadnought battleships are in, the Kilkis - the Lemnos had her guns removed 1932.

Som our Greek navy looks like this:

Battleship type 0:
Kilkis

Cruisers type 1:
Georgios Averof

Cruisers type 0:
Ellis

Proposed Destroyer Squadrons (each of 5 ships)
type 1: 1
type 0: 1

Proposed Submarine Flottilas (each of 5 boats)
type 1: 1

Starting Escorts 1936: 15

Aye and I included that

 

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oops

*finds a old copy of Jaine's fightiing ships*
oops good call about the Lemnos, what did they ever do with its guns? costal fortifacations? large paperweights?
and you are also very currect about the Yavauz (maybe thats why it doesn't sound very greek ) sorry for the bad info I failed to read some notes properly. keep up the good work with the navies guys.

 

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Thx

 

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There are some real naval oddities in 1.05c:

Germany have Schlesien and Schleswig-Holstein as battleships comparable to the British Nelson and Rodney, similar if not identical statistics. But the two german ship were pre dreadnoughts armed with something like 4- 11-12in guns, whereas the British ships were modern Washington treaty ships form the 1920s with 9- 16in guns !
This is demostrated by their use in the war, the two German ships shelled Polish position in 1939 and did very little after that, the British ship took part in several major naval battles and naval invasions like D-day.

I don't see how these can be rated the same type of ships.

The British ships in the 1939 OOB are oddly named, the R class and Queen Elizabeth class ships (WW1 vintage 8 -15in gun ships) are listed as King George V class. Which were modern 10-14 in gun ships in the process of building and completion as of 1939. I don't think these are even in the process of building in the game.

 

[Vulture]

1) Check the suggested changes on British OOB... The Rodney and such are now of a different model than the Schlesien and such.

2) 1939 & 1941 will be fixed later (at least that's what von Adler said )

 

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Yep. 1936 first, then 1939 and 1941. And the Schlesien and Schleswig-Holstein is now level 0 while most UK battleships are level 1 (some are even level 2).

 

[Vulture]

Aye! I think Rodney is level 2

 

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Going for Japan now...

 

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We're done with Japan. I think Guderian can post the list.

 

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after some work, we proudly present JAPAN

Japan 1. January 1936

Battleships type 1:
Haruna (+ 1 Speed)
Hiei (+ 1 Speed)
Kongo (+ 1 Speed)
Kirishima (+ 1 Speed)
Fuso
Yamashiro
Hyuga
Ise
Mutsu (+1 NA)
Nagato (+1 NA)

Carrier type 2:
Akagi
Kaga

Carrier type 1:
Ryujo
Soryu

Carrier type 0:
Hosho

Cruiser type 2:
Ashigara
Haguro
Nachi
Myoko
Atago
Chokai
Maya
Takao
Suzuya
Mogami
Mikuma
Aoba (- 1 NA)
Kinugasa (- 1 NA)
Furutaka (- 1 NA)
Kako (- 1 NA)
Kumano (in building process until 15.10.1936)
Chikuma (in building process until 19.03.1938) (refitted with 203mm guns before finishing)
Tone (in building process until 21.11.1937) (refitted with 203mm guns before finishing)

Cruiser type 0:
Abukuma
Isuzu
Kinu
Nagara
Natori
Yura
Yubari
Jintsu
Naka
Sendai
Tatsuta
Tenryu
Kiso
Kitikama
Kuma
Oi
Tama
Asama
Azuma
Iwate
Izumo
Kasuga
Yakumo

Proposed Destroyer Groups (each of 5 ships)
type 1: 10
+ 1 in building process until June 1936
+ 1 in building process until May 1937
type 0: 10


Proposed Submarine Flottilas (each of 5 boats)
typ 1: 5
+ 1 in building procesds until September 1937
type 0: 5


Starting escorts 1936: 11

 

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when you do 39`and 41`, which type will bismarck, tirpitz and yamamoto be?

shouldnt there be some changes to tech tree when the navies are altered this much?

your tiny fan

 

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British Battleship 1939

Hi again.
slightly confused by the missnaming of British battleship classes, so some of the King George V ships are in the build queue; that is KGV and another. But the Prince of Wales isn't building even though it was complelete in March/April 1941. Two other ships in the class, Howe and Anson, had been started, but were built slowly, the armoured plate was need elsewhere, so you could argue they need not be in the 1939 build queue.

OK, so Schlesien and Schleswig-Holstein are in as 0 level ships, in that case I'd like to argue for the inclusion of HMS Iron Duke which in 1939 was still inservice as a gunnery training ship. It was built later than the two german ships and was a super dreadnought rather than the pre-dreadnought S and S-H. Incidentally Iron Duke was the British flagship at Jutland.
Its stats are:
Tons: 30,380 disp Arm.10 × 13.5 in guns (5 × 2), 12 × 6 in Armor: 12 in belt, 2.5 in deck. Mach.: steam turbines, 29,000 shp, 20.7 kts. Built: Portsmouth Dockyard, Eng.; 1914.
Schllesien's are:
Tons: 13,190 Arm. 4 x 11in guns, 16 6.7 in 18 kts.

Another British battleship was around in 1939, HMS Centurion was similar 10x 13.5in guns but 20,000 plus tons, but by this stage was being used as a target ship. So I'm not argueing for it to be an active ship, thats despite it being towed into the Mediterranean during the war as a dumy HMS Anson and it too part in D-Day, being sunk as a breakwater

 

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Nope, we are doing it towards the present tech tree.

All those will be level 2 battleships, Yamato MIGHT be level 3, but it is nothing we have discussed more seriousely yet.

 

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Re: British Battleship 1939

Originally posted by armyknife
Hi again.
slightly confused by the missnaming of British battleship classes, so some of the King George V ships are in the build queue; that is KGV and another. But the Prince of Wales isn't building even though it was complelete in March/April 1941. Two other ships in the class, Howe and Anson, had been started, but were built slowly, the armoured plate was need elsewhere, so you could argue they need not be in the 1939 build queue.

Laid down 1937, so not relevant for 1936.

OK, so Schlesien and Schleswig-Holstein are in as 0 level ships, in that case I'd like to argue for the inclusion of HMS Iron Duke which in 1939 was still inservice as a gunnery training ship. It was built later than the two german ships and was a super dreadnought rather than the pre-dreadnought S and S-H. Incidentally Iron Duke was the British flagship at Jutland.
Its stats are:
Tons: 30,380 disp Arm.10 × 13.5 in guns (5 × 2), 12 × 6 in Armor: 12 in belt, 2.5 in deck. Mach.: steam turbines, 29,000 shp, 20.7 kts. Built: Portsmouth Dockyard, Eng.; 1914.
Schllesien's are:
Tons: 13,190 Arm. 4 x 11in guns, 16 6.7 in 18 kts.

Another British battleship was around in 1939, HMS Centurion was similar 10x 13.5in guns but 20,000 plus tons, but by this stage was being used as a target ship. So I'm not argueing for it to be an active ship, thats despite it being towed into the Mediterranean during the war as a dumy HMS Anson and it too part in D-Day, being sunk as a breakwater

HMS Iron Duke was decomissioned 1929. Will check upon staus in 1936, maybe gunnery training ship will count as useable.
HMS Centurion was rebuilt in 1942. Before used as traget ship, so not in for 1936!

 

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Re: Re: British Battleship 1939

Originally posted by GS_Guderian
Laid down 1937, so not relevant for 1936.

HMS Iron Duke was decomissioned 1929. Will check upon staus in 1936, maybe gunnery training ship will count as useable.
HMS Centurion was rebuilt in 1942. Before used as traget ship, so not in for 1936!

Hi
my comments are about the 39 OOB, which doesn't have POW in the build queue. Indeed since she was engaging Bismarck in May 41 its build time remaining should be somewhere between KGV and Duke of York.

Anson and Howe were laid down in June/Jul 37 but took to 42! to complete so perhaps they shouldn't be in. But then again perhaps a player might choose to put extra battleships on the backburner so may they should be in aswell.

Iron duke was rerated as a gunnery ship in 1930 and ended its days as a depot after being disabled by german bombing very early in the war. It certainly was still armed in 1939/40 because after been grounded, the guns were removed to be used in coastal artillery. The 13.5 in guns were very impressive pieces far more capable than the 11 in of the S and S-H. My arguement is that if these two are in with their limited abilities as shore bombardment vessesls, then surely the Duke should be in. Say if the UK had been invade, I'm sure it could have been taken south to bombard german invasion positions.

As for the Centurion, I was joking about its inclusion, though consider some of the useless coastal defence ships that are included as cruisers in the game, perhaps why not.

 

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Well, if you read the thread ( ) you might have noticed, that ALL OOBs are for 1936!!!

We will do 1939 & 1941 later, that´s for sure.
We will consider your info, thank you.

 

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Yes, we are still doing the 1936 OoB, we will consider you propositions when doing the 1939 one.