1936 Naval OOB (AKA Navy Suggestions)

unmerged(1180) · Sep 29, 2003

Suggestions for the navies...

I am going to start doing a comparison on navies and ships for many minor nations - on the line of the naval OoB suggestions I have made before.

I was thinking like this:

Destroyer type 0 = old torpedo boats, old destroyers (ww1 vintage)

Destroyer type 1 = modern destroyers

Destroyer type 2 = destroyer leaders

Cruiser type 0 = old light cruiser

Cruiser type 1 = modern light cruiser, old heavy cruiser, old coastal defence ships, monitors

Cruiser type 2 = modern heavy cruiser, small modern coastal defence ships

Pre-dreadnough battleship = old coastal defence ships, pre-dreadnought battleships

Will look more into the various battleship types and make suggestions. Few minor nations had any real I might suggest more AA, NA or GD or lowered of the same for some ships

Many of the minor nations navies are a bit under-powered. I will also make tech addition suggestions, as some nations had extensive warf and shipbuildign capactiy (Sweden, the Netherlands and Spain, for example).

I'll also try to make a list for the different levels of cruisers classes for the different minor nations.

unmerged(1180) · Oct 9, 2003

New Swedish list...

MODEL_SWE_0_0;INFANTERI;;;;;;;;;;X
MODEL_SWE_1_0;KAVALLERI;;;;;;;;;;X
MODEL_SWE_2_0;MOTORISERAT INFANTERI;;;;;;;;;;X
MODEL_SWE_3_0;MEKANISERAT INFANTERI;;;;;;;;;;X
MODEL_SWE_4_0;Strv m/21-29;;;;;;;;;;X
MODEL_SWE_4_1;Strv m/37;;;;;;;;;;X
MODEL_SWE_4_2;Strv m/39 (MG);;;;;;;;;;X
MODEL_SWE_4_3;Strv m/39 (20mm);;;;;;;;;;X
MODEL_SWE_4_4;Strv m/39 (37mm);;;;;;;;;;X
MODEL_SWE_4_5;Strv m/39 (40mm);;;;;;;;;;X
MODEL_SWE_4_6;Strv m/40 (20mm);;;;;;;;;;X
MODEL_SWE_4_7;Strv m/40 (37mm);;;;;;;;;;X
MODEL_SWE_4_8;Strv m/40 (40mm);;;;;;;;;;X
MODEL_SWE_4_9;Strv m/41 (37mm);;;;;;;;;;X
MODEL_SWE_4_10;Strv m/41 (40mm);;;;;;;;;;X
MODEL_SWE_4_11;Strv m/42 (50mm);;;;;;;;;;X
MODEL_SWE_4_12;Strv m/42 (75mm);;;;;;;;;;X
MODEL_SWE_4_32;Strv 81 (80mm);;;;;;;;;;x
MODEL_SWE_4_33;Strv 81 (90mm);;;;;;;;;;x
MODEL_SWE_4_34;Strv 81 (105mm);;;;;;;;;;x
MODEL_SWE_4_35;Strv 81 (120mm);;;;;;;;;;x
MODEL_SWE_5_0;FALLSKÄRMSTRUPPER;;;;;;;;;;X
MODEL_SWE_6_0;MARINSOLDATER;;;;;;;;;;X
MODEL_SWE_7_0;BERGSTRUPPER;;;;;;;;;;X
MODEL_SWE_8_0;MILIS;;;;;;;;;;X
MODEL_SWE_9_0;J-8 Gladiator;;;;;;;;;;X
MODEL_SWE_9_1;J-9 Seversky;;;;;;;;;;X
MODEL_SWE_9_2;J-20 Falco;;;;;;;;;;X
MODEL_SWE_9_4;FFVS J-22;;;;;;;;;;X
MODEL_SWE_9_5;SAAB J-21A;;;;;;;;;;X
MODEL_SWE_9_6;J-24;;;;;;;;;;X
MODEL_SWE_9_7;J-27;;;;;;;;;;X
MODEL_SWE_9_8;J-26 Mustang;;;;;;;;;;X
MODEL_SWE_9_9;J-30 Mosquito;;;;;;;;;;X
MODEL_SWE_9_11;SAAB J-21R;;;;;;;;;;X
MODEL_SWE_9_13;J-28 Vampire;;;;;;;;;;X
MODEL_SWE_10_0;B-3 Junkers;;;;;;;;;;X
MODEL_SWE_10_1;Flygande Fästning;;;;;;;;;;X
MODEL_SWE_11_0;S-6 Fokker;;;;;;;;;;X
MODEL_SWE_11_1;B-16 Caprioni;;;;;;;;;;X
MODEL_SWE_11_2;SAAB B-18;;;;;;;;;;X
MODEL_SWE_12_0;B-4 Hart;;;;;;;;;;X
MODEL_SWE_12_1;B-5 Northrop;;;;;;;;;;X
MODEL_SWE_12_2;SAAB B-17;;;;;;;;;;X
MODEL_SWE_12_3;SAAB A-21A;;;;;;;;;;X
MODEL_SWE_13_0;S-9 Osprey;;;;;;;;;;X
MODEL_SWE_14_0;T-3 Heinkel;;;;;;;;;;X
MODEL_SWE_14_1;T-16 Caprioni;;;;;;;;;;X
MODEL_SWE_14_2;SAAB T-18;;;;;;;;;;X
MODEL_SWE_18_0;Sverige Class;;;;;;;;;;X
MODEL_SWE_18_1;De Champ Class;;;;;;;;;;X
MODEL_SWE_18_2;Thörnell Class;;;;;;;;;;X
MODEL_SWE_19_0;Fylgia Class;;;;;;;;;;X
MODEL_SWE_19_1;Äran Class;;;;;;;;;;X
MODEL_SWE_19_2;Tre Kronor Class;;;;;;;;;;X
MODEL_SWE_19_3;Baltimore Class;;;;;;;;;;X
MODEL_SWE_20_0;Wrangel Class;;;;;;;;;;X
MODEL_SWE_20_1;Ehrensköld Class;;;;;;;;;;X
MODEL_SWE_20_2;Stadsjagare Class;;;;;;;;;;X
MODEL_SWE_20_3;Öland Class;;;;;;;;;;X
MODEL_SWE_22_0;Abborren Class;;;;;;;;;;X
MODEL_SWE_22_1;Sjölejonet Class;;;;;;;;;;X
MODEL_SWE_22_2;Neptun Class;;;;;;;;;;X
MODEL_SWE_22_3;U1 Class;;;;;;;;;;X

unmerged(1180) · Oct 9, 2003

New French shiplist...

MODEL_FRA_18_0;Danton Class;;;;;;;;;;x
MODEL_FRA_18_1;Bretagne Class;;;;;;;;;;x
MODEL_FRA_18_2;Richelieu Class;;;;;;;;;;x
MODEL_FRA_18_3;Alsace Class;;;;;;;;;;x
MODEL_FRA_19_0;Edgard Quinet Class;;;;;;;;;;x
MODEL_FRA_19_1;La Galissonnière Class;;;;;;;;;;x
MODEL_FRA_19_2;Foch Class;;;;;;;;;;x
MODEL_FRA_20_0;L'Adroit Class;;;;;;;;;;x
MODEL_FRA_20_1;Jaguar Class;;;;;;;;;;x
MODEL_FRA_20_2;Mogador Class;;;;;;;;;;x
MODEL_FRA_21_0;Bearn Class;;;;;;;;;;x
MODEL_FRA_21_1;Joffre Class;;;;;;;;;;x
MODEL_FRA_21_2;Arromanches Class;;;;;;;;;;x
MODEL_FRA_21_3;Lafayette Class;;;;;;;;;;x
MODEL_FRA_21_4;Clemenceau Class;;;;;;;;;;x
MODEL_FRA_21_5;Charles de Gaulle Class;;;;;;;;;;x
MODEL_FRA_22_0;Sirène Class;;;;;;;;;;x
MODEL_FRA_22_1;Requin Class;;;;;;;;;;x
MODEL_FRA_22_2;Surcouf Class;;;;;;;;;;x

unmerged(1180) · Oct 9, 2003

French navy

Almost 100% Guderians work:

France 1. January 1936:

Battleship type 2:
Richelieue (in building process until Jan.17/1939)
Verdun (in building process until Mar.6/1940)

Battleship type 1:
Dunkerque (+1 NA/ +1 GD / +1 Speed)
Strasbourg (+1 NA/ +1 GD/ + 1 Speed)(in building process until Dec.12/1936)
Courbet
Jea-Bart
Paris
Bretagne
Lorraine
Provence

Battleship type 0:
Diderot
Condorcet

Carrier type 0:
Bearn

Cruiser type 2:
Algérie
Foch
Dupleix
Suffren
Colbert
Duquesne
Tourville

Cruiser type 1:
Duguay Trouin
Lamote-Picquet
Primaguet
Pluton
Jeanne d'Arc
Émile Bertin
La Galissonnière
Jean de Vienne
Marseillaise
Gloire
Montcalm
Georges Leygues (former Chateaurenault, in building process until Mar.24/1936)

Cruiser type 0:
Waldeck-Rousseau
Strasbourg (Ex- German Regensburg WWI Warreparation)
Metz (Ex- German Königsberg WWI Warreparation)
Thionville (Ex- Austrian Novara WWI Warreparation)

Destroyer type 2:
Mogador Class 2 (in building process until June 9th/1937)

Destroyer type 1:
Le Fantasque Class 6 (Speed + 1)
Vauquelin Class 6
Aigle Class 6
Guépard Class 6
Jaguar Class 6
Bourrasque Class 12

Destroyer Type 0:
L'Adroit Class 14 (modern Torpedo Boats)

Proposed Destroyer Squardrons:
type 2: 1 (in building Process until 9th/1937)
type 1: 7
type 0: 3

Submarine type 2:
Surcouf Class 1

Submarine type 1:
Redoutable Class 18
Agosta Class 6 (one in building process until July 9, 1937)
L'Espoir Class 6
Requin Class 9
Minerve Class 6 (modern big Coastal Subs/ 2 in building process until December 9, 1938)
Saphir Class 6

Submarine type 0:
Jean Corre 1 (Ex- German UB155, WWI Warreparation)
Diane Class 9
Orion Class 2
Sirène class 11
Argonaute Class 5

Proposed Submarine Flotillas:
type 2: 1
type 1: 9 (plus one additional in building process until December 9, 1938)
type 0: 5

Escorts:
16 Submarine Chasers
23 Torpedo Boats
31 Gunboats (River Gunboats NOT counted)
7 Auxiliary Cruisers

unmerged(13008) · Oct 9, 2003

Re: French navy

Originally posted by von Adler
Almost 100% Guderians work:

Well thanks, but we did actually talk hours over it, deciding on bordercases

So not only me.

Anyway,

The Escorts:
16 Submarine Chasers
23 Torpedo Boats
31 Gunboats (River Gunboats NOT counted)
7 Auxiliary Cruisers

They were available in Januray/1936.
So how many Escorts do we grant?
One Destroyersquad (5 ships) give 10!

So I think a single Torpedoboat might give 1...but that would amount a a big escort fleet! (How many do you need for a convoy to effectivly stop U-Boat Raids on them?)

Anyway I propose this:
Auxiliary Cruisers (2,5 each)
Destroyers (allready in with 2 each, but in my proposals it´s always up to player wheather he makes them real escorts)
Torpedo Boats (1 each)
Submarine Chasers/Mine Sweepers (1/2 each)
Gunboats (1/4 each)

Which would give France:
17,5 + 23 + 15,5 + 4 = 60

So maybe France then starts 1936 with 60 Escorts!

(Is that to much, I don´t think so. For a big Empire like France, those 5 starting escorts in 1.05c are a little joke, no?)

unmerged(1180) · Oct 9, 2003

Well, France got LONG supply lines and a rampant Italian navy threatening the nice supplies from Africa. And France usually falls before the Germans can get a real sub-war going...

unmerged(13008) · Oct 9, 2003

Jop, in my opinion it will be hardly enough to guard all the Convoies in Mediterranian.

unmerged(13008) · Oct 10, 2003

French Navy easy to read setup for 1. January 1936:

France 1. January 1936:

Battleship type 2:
Richelieue (in building process until Jan.17/1939)
Verdun (in building process until Mar.6/1940)

Battleship type 1:
Dunkerque (+1 NA/ +1 GD / +1 Speed)
Strasbourg (+1 NA/ +1 GD/ + 1 Speed)(in building process until Dec.12/1936)
Courbet
Jea-Bart
Paris
Bretagne
Lorraine
Provence
General Alekseev

Battleship type 0:
Diderot
Condorcet

Carrier type 0:
Bearn

Cruiser type 2:
Algérie
Foch
Dupleix
Suffren
Colbert
Duquesne
Tourville

Cruiser type 1:
Duguay Trouin
Lamote-Picquet
Primaguet
Pluton
Jeanne d'Arc
Émile Bertin
La Galissonnière
Jean de Vienne
Marseillaise
Gloire
Montcalm
Georges Leygues (in building process until Mar.24/1936)

Cruiser type 0:
Waldeck-Rousseau
Strasbourg
Metz
Thionville

Proposed Destroyer Squardrons:
type 2: 1 (in building Process until 9th/1937)
type 1: 7
type 0: 3

Proposed Submarine Flotillas:
type 2: 1
type 1: 9
+ 1 in building process until December 9, 1938
type 0: 5

Starting Escorts: 60

unmerged(13008) · Oct 10, 2003

Italian Navy easy to read setup for 1. January 1936:

Battleship type 2
RM Littorio (In building process since Oktober 1934, should not be ready until 1937)
RM Vittorio Veneto (In building process since Oktober 1934, should not be ready until 1937)

Battleship type 1
RM Conte di Cavour (+2 NA) (+1 Speed) (should be in modernizing process until 1. June 1937)
RM Giulio Cesare (+2 NA) (+1 Speed) (should be in modernizing process until 1. Oktober 1937)
RM Caio Duilio
RM Andrea Doria

Cruiser type 2
RM Zara
RM Gorizia
RM Fiume
RM Pola
RM Bolzano
RM Trento
RM Trieste

Cruiser type 1
RM Giuseppe Garibaldi (in bulding Process until 20.12.1937)
RM Luigi Di Savoia Duca Degli Abruzzi (in bulding Process until 01.12.1937)
RM Emanuele Filiberto Duca D'Aosta
RM Eugenio DiSavoia (in bulding Process until 16.01.1936)
RM Alberico da Barbiano
RM Bartolomeo Colleoni
RM Ciovanni Delle Dande Nere
RM Alberto Di Giussano
RM Raimondo Montecuccoli
RM Muzio Attendolo
RM Luigi Cadorna
RM Armando Diaz

Cruiser type 0
RM Taranto
RM Ancona Bari Pisa
RM San Giorgio
RM Libia
RM Campania
RM Quarto
RM Brindisi
RM Venezia

Proposed Destroyer Squardrons (5 destroyers each):
type 1: 8
+ 1 in building process until July 1937
type 0: 11
+ 1 in building process until June 1936
+ 1 until January 1937
+ 2 until June 1937

Proposed Submarine Flotillas (5 Subs each):
type 1: 6
+ 1 in building process until February 1936
+ 1 in building process until August 1936
+ 1 in building process until July 1937
type 0: 6
+ 1 in building process until June 1936

Starting Escorts: 47

unmerged(1180) · Oct 10, 2003

I think the Italian ships should have the prefix RM.

Excellent list, Guderian, I will alter the models.csv accordingly.

unmerged(13008) · Oct 10, 2003

National China January 1936:

Cruiser type 1:
Ning´Hai
Ping´Hai (in production Process until 18.06.1936)

cruiser type 0:
Hai´Yung
Hai´Shew
Hai´Shen
Hai´Chi
Ying´Swei
Chao´Ho

Proposed Destroyer Squardrons (5 destroyers each):
type 0: 2

Starting Escorts: 2

unmerged(13008) · Oct 10, 2003

Originally posted by von Adler
I think the Italian ships should have the prefix RM.

Edited. thx.

Excellent list, Guderian, I will alter the models.csv accordingly.

Click to expand...

Thank you.
Next major was National China. Easier to find out about it´s 1914 fleet, then 1936. But I think we have them pretty much in now.

Vulture · Oct 10, 2003

Originally posted by von Adler
Just change the Swedish Stridsvagn to Strv, which was (and is) the official short. Using stridsvagn is like using Panzerkampfwagen - everybody uses Pz or Strv anyway.

I also hava changed and added a bit within the Swedish airplanes (added strategic bombers and naval bombers and added and moved some tactical and dive bombers). They are now a bit more varied, more realistic and more in line with the 1936 OoBs I suggested.

I have not changed anything in tanks, the only thing I got there is that the Czech 40mm+ tanks should be 47mm, like the 30mm is 37mm.

Will go wild on the ships then.

Ok mail it over pls!

Vulture · Oct 10, 2003

Re: French navy

Originally posted by von Adler
Almost 100% Guderians work:

France 1. January 1936:

Battleship type 2:
Richelieue (in building process until Jan.17/1939)
Verdun (in building process until Mar.6/1940)

Battleship type 1:
Dunkerque (+1 NA/ +1 GD / +1 Speed)
Strasbourg (+1 NA/ +1 GD/ + 1 Speed)(in building process until Dec.12/1936)
Courbet
Jea-Bart
Paris
Bretagne
Lorraine
Provence

Battleship type 0:
Diderot
Condorcet

Carrier type 0:
Bearn

Cruiser type 2:
Algérie
Foch
Dupleix
Suffren
Colbert
Duquesne
Tourville

Cruiser type 1:
Duguay Trouin
Lamote-Picquet
Primaguet
Pluton
Jeanne d'Arc
Émile Bertin
La Galissonnière
Jean de Vienne
Marseillaise
Gloire
Montcalm
Georges Leygues (former Chateaurenault, in building process until Mar.24/1936)

Cruiser type 0:
Waldeck-Rousseau
Strasbourg (Ex- German Regensburg WWI Warreparation)
Metz (Ex- German Königsberg WWI Warreparation)
Thionville (Ex- Austrian Novara WWI Warreparation)

Destroyer type 2:
Mogador Class 2 (in building process until June 9th/1937)

Destroyer type 1:
Le Fantasque Class 6 (Speed + 1)
Vauquelin Class 6
Aigle Class 6
Guépard Class 6
Jaguar Class 6
Bourrasque Class 12

Destroyer Type 0:
L'Adroit Class 14 (modern Torpedo Boats)

Proposed Destroyer Squardrons:
type 2: 1 (in building Process until 9th/1937)
type 1: 7
type 0: 3

Submarine type 2:
Surcouf Class 1

Submarine type 1:
Redoutable Class 18
Agosta Class 6 (one in building process until July 9, 1937)
L'Espoir Class 6
Requin Class 9
Minerve Class 6 (modern big Coastal Subs/ 2 in building process until December 9, 1938)
Saphir Class 6

Submarine type 0:
Jean Corre 1 (Ex- German UB155, WWI Warreparation)
Diane Class 9
Orion Class 2
Sirène class 11
Argonaute Class 5

Proposed Submarine Flotillas:
type 2: 1
type 1: 9 (plus one additional in building process until December 9, 1938)
type 0: 5

Escorts:
16 Submarine Chasers
23 Torpedo Boats
31 Gunboats (River Gunboats NOT counted)
7 Auxiliary Cruisers

BEAUTIFUL! Going in soon!

Vulture · Oct 10, 2003

ALL GOING IN

unmerged(13008) · Oct 10, 2003

Dreadnought Volya, later General Alekseev:

ex Imperator Aleksandr III
Black Sea Fleet
renamed Volya Apr.29/17
evacuated to Novorossisk 1918
returned to Sevastopol against scuttling orders
interned at Sevastopol by Germans
German flag was raised in Sevastopol on Jun.19/18
commissioned into the German Navy on Oct.15/18
turned over to the "White Russians" and renamed General Alekseev
Interned at the French port of Bizerte in Tunisia (North Africa) Aug./20
following the White Russian's collapse
scrapped in France 1936

Well, I put this ship into the French List.
So, France has its Hands over this Dreadnought now.

Vulture · Oct 10, 2003

Sure

unmerged(13008) · Oct 10, 2003

Next major Nation reworked:

Sowjetunion easy to read Startup January 1936:

Battleships type 1:
Parizskaya Komuna
Marat (NA + 1)
Oktyabrskaya Revolyuciya (NA + 1)

Cruisers type 2:
Kirov (in building process until 30.12.1936)
Voroshilov (in building process until 28.06.1937)

Cruisers type 1:
Krasnyj Kavkaz

Cruiser type 0:
Aurora
Komintern
Chervona Ukraina
Profintern

Proposed Destroyer Squardrons:
type 2: 1 (in building process until 28.11.1937)
type 1: 1 (in building process until August 1936))
type 0: 3

Proposed Submarine Flotillas (5 Subs each):
type 1: 15
+ 1 in building Process until May 1936
+ 1 in building Process until October 1936
+ 1 in building Process until May 1937
+ 1 in building Process until November 1937
type 0: 13

Starting Escorts for 1936: 20

Seems like Russians likes Subs much more then anything else

Nikolai II · Oct 10, 2003

Finland again

Would Uusimaa, Hämeenmaa, Karjala, Turunmaa qualify as anything?

1917-1918 ships, 340-400 ton, 15 knots, 2/104+1/40 arty for two and 2/75mm+2/20mm for the other two. (7 torpedo boats could be added too if necessary, 2 tubes of 450mm on all, Sisu, hurja, Isku, Syöksy, Nuoli, Vinha, Raju; 25(2)-31(1)-40(4) knots, 1917(2), 1926(1) 1928(2) 1929 (2))

Also as 'fillers' are Luohi (1916, 770 ton, 10kts, 2/75mm+2/20mm, minelayer) and Rautu (1917, 240 ton, 10 knots, 1/75mm, mineclearer)

Anything there useful as a destroyer flotilla? (or two

) (or one? at 0?)

Nikolai II · Oct 10, 2003

USSR with added 'baltic'

Originally posted by GS_Guderian
Sowjetunion easy to read Startup January 1936:

Battleships type 1:
Parizskaya Komuna
Marat (NA + 1) baltic
Oktyabrskaya Revolyuciya (NA + 1)baltic

Cruisers type 2:
Kirov (in building process until 30.12.1936)baltic in 39
Voroshilov (in building process until 28.06.1937)

Cruisers type 1:
Krasnyj Kavkaz

Cruiser type 0:
Aurora
Komintern
Chervona Ukraina
Profintern

Proposed Destroyer Squardrons:
type 2: 1 (in building process until 28.11.1937)baltic in 39
type 1: 1 (in building process until August 1936))baltic in 39
type 0: 3 one in baltic

Proposed Submarine Flotillas (5 Subs each):
type 1: 25
+ 1 in building Process until May 1936
+ 1 in building Process until October 1936
+ 1 in building Process until May 1937
+ 1 in building Process until November 1937
type 0: 3
Whee- Lezzee here: 32 'biggish' subs and 21 'smallish' in the baltic fleet of 39, 29 'biggish' and 16 'smallish' in '36. It would seem that one type 0 should be in the works, completion 36-39, (the M90 & M94-M97) Else 6 type 1 in baltic and 3 type 0 in baltic, right?

Starting Escorts for 1936: 20

Seems like Russians likes Subs much more then anything else

Vulture · Oct 11, 2003

Ok will do all Russian changes, except the subs until you've decided

1936 Naval OOB (AKA Navy Suggestions)

Kaiser und König

Kaiser und König

Kaiser und König

Kaiser und König

Granzerpennadier

Kaiser und König

Granzerpennadier

Granzerpennadier

Granzerpennadier

Kaiser und König

Granzerpennadier

Granzerpennadier

Aerandir Eärfalas

Aerandir Eärfalas

Aerandir Eärfalas

Granzerpennadier

Aerandir Eärfalas

Granzerpennadier

A bunny with a hat

A bunny with a hat

Aerandir Eärfalas