1838 Patriots (Québec and Ontario)

[Niptium]

Will there be a independant Québec ? There was a rebellion in 1938 that won several fights over the British army with Papineau as the political head. But soon, the Patriots were crushed by the British army and Papineau fled to the USA. The USA chose not to intervene in this rebellion because they valued their economic relationship with the UK more than liberty. Most of the leaders were hung up and high.

Nowadays, in Québec, on the same day as the Canadians are celebrating the holiday of the Queen, we are celebrating the Patriots Holiday to comemorate these sad events.

I think this option should be considered since Québec is the only american nation that didn't win (and still hasn't) it's independance.

 

[Surgünoglu]

I think this option should be considered since Québec is the only american nation that didn't win (and still hasn't) it's independance.

Other than, of course, the native Americans...


And the Confederacy.

And Burr's empire. Though that was a scheme and less a nation.

I don't know. Why would anybody sacrifice peace with the UK to save Quebec? I mean, I can understand why Quebecois might have wanted independence, Canada being hell and all, but why would anybody else care?

 

[Niptium]

Re: Re: 1838 Patriots (Québec and Ontario)

Originally posted by Surgünoglu
I mean, I can understand why Quebecois might have wanted independence, Canada being hell and all, but why would anybody else care?

One hell of a chance France didn't say that in 1779 ! I know a country that would'nt be what it is right now without France's support centuries ago.

 

[unmerged(5217)]

If you wanted that badly you should have met us half way in the city after hacking up your evil overlords.

 

[Moltke]

The USA chose not to intervene in this rebellion because they valued their economic relationship with the UK more than liberty. Most of the leaders were hung up and high.

Right... And why didn't the "Quebecois" intervene when the American colonies were being ravaged by Britain's harsh policies? To say the United States at the time didn't value liberty is preposterous, so perhaps you can find other factors that contributed to their staying neutral? 1812 perhaps?

 

[Faeelin]

Originally posted by Niptium
The USA chose not to intervene in this rebellion because they valued their economic relationship with the UK more than liberty

I keep forgetting about how tyrannical the British were.

 

[unmerged(5217)]

Tyrannical? No you could do a lot worse if your were going to be controlled ,but some people would rather go it alone.

 

[unmerged(18522)]

Yes, the British are undoubtedley the most evil race of people on earth. Consistently throughout history trampling on the rights of smaller nations and massacring native populations for sport. What the British need is to emulate the kind considerate nature towards native peoples shown by the US in the mid-west or France in Algeria or Spain in Cuba or Germany in South West Africa. Not to mention the generous nature native people have shown to their neighbours, the Dahomey slave trade, just about any indian principality to any other principality and the apache to anyone. If you ask me the Canadians are the only people wihtout blood on their hands (or are they???)

 

[unmerged(870)]

Originally posted by Constantine VII
If you ask me the Canadians are the only people wihtout blood on their hands (or are they???)

Canadians do like to trample the civil rights of their native baby seal population no?

 

[unmerged(18522)]

Oh absolutely, nothing like seal clubbing to get one in the mood. Maybe an independent Quebec will exist in the Fantasia scenario, along with other fantastic countries such as Belgium.

 

[Niptium]

Sorry to be insistent but the rebellion DID happen in 1838 and 39. It was organized, it had a political meaning and assets. Québec could have been an independant nation if the rebellion would have been supported by foreign entities and by a bigger portion of the population.

Do I have to remind you that Québécois were supporting the American revolution ? During the War, an american army marched through Montréal without any real opposition and spent a whole winter in Montréal, fed by the local Québécois. Benjamin Franklin spent some time in Montréal at the same time and his voyage was archived thorougly.

 

[unmerged(7078)]

just remember quebec isnt just french speaking. thanks to the U.S there is also a large "english" community there as well

 

[brandnew70x7]

Theres also Texas (Although they were willingly annexed, if they weren't they would've been defeated eventually), and the failed attempted at a republic of California.

 

[Niptium]

Huh ? I wouldn't say a large english speaking community. When only 8% percent of the population speaks english... and 82% speaks french !

 

[Niptium]

Originally posted by Burris
Theres also Texas (Although they were willingly annexed, if they weren't they would've been defeated eventually), and the failed attempted at a republic of California.

Texas will playable be in Victoria. Johan said it more than once.

 

[Languish]

Re: Re: 1838 Patriots (Québec and Ontario)

Originally posted by Faeelin
I keep forgetting about how tyrannical the British were.

It was either us or the french...

 

[Surgünoglu]

Re: Re: Re: 1838 Patriots (Québec and Ontario)

Originally posted by Niptium
One hell of a chance France didn't say that in 1779 ! I know a country that would'nt be what it is right now without France's support centuries ago.

France helped America because it was in its interest to screw with England. All romanticism aside, they did it in no small part to help themselves. I'm not criticizing, but there it is. I'm sure the game will show the Quebecois riots, but answer me this--what incentive to help Quebec is there for any player or computer playing America or any other power? I think that the event should play very much as it did in real life. Unfortunate for the Quebecois rebels, but this isn't real fertile ground for alternate history. The Confederacy had more of a chance than Quebec. Heck, the Ottoman Empire had more of a chance creating a free republic in North America than Quebec.

This might be very sad. I don't know; I've never read about it. But this is certain--they weren't going to get any help.

 

[Faeelin]

Re: Re: Re: 1838 Patriots (Québec and Ontario)

Originally posted by Languish
It was either us or the french...

Well, you know, under Quebec, the despotic Briitsh forced them to be part of the world's largest free trade zone, ensure religious tolerance, economic prosperity, and local autonomy.

There are nations who would go to war to be conquered by such an empire.

 

[unmerged(15967)]

Re: Re: Re: Re: 1838 Patriots (Québec and Ontario)

Originally posted by Faeelin
Well, you know, under Quebec, the despotic Briitsh forced them to be part of the world's largest free trade zone, ensure religious tolerance, economic prosperity, and local autonomy.

There are nations who would go to war to be conquered by such an empire.

Examples? who did go to war with the goal of being conquered?

 

[unmerged(5217)]

The problem was that in the early years you were in the empire not necessarily playing any kind of active part it in the running of that empire. When you look at the pre revolution American colonies most are proud of being British and enjoy being apart of something greater. What they did not like was the soft bigotry they received for being thought lesser than what they considered to be their equals in Britain. I seem to remember a comment Franklin made on the subject and his anger about it. During one of his trips to Britain repeatedly hearing even common people saying “our subjects in the colonies” as if a begger in london was sovereign of a continent.