+175% Xenophilia attraction yet I have 325 Xenophobe pops

[TheHolyAsdf]

I am fanatic xenophile. I have never conqured any planets and have migration treaties only with other xenophile egalitarian empires.

Yet this xenophobe faction has ramped up from 50 pops to 350 in 30 or so years. How?
It has 0% government ethnic attraction and i've switched on all the edicts to shift government ethnics, yet it still grows.

This is not the first time it happens, in fact it happens all my games, there is always an opposing faction of my main government ethnic I cannot get rid. But this is the most substantial case.

 

[Kryndude]

I have similar issue when playing authoritarian slave empire. Slaves aren't supposed to have political influenc but the empire egalitarian attraction exists because of the fact that I have slaves.

 

[Urza1234]

Firstly I wouldnt worry about it, since its still relatively small.

Pop Ethic Weights Xenophobe
+2.00 Has supremacist or isolationist faction and is not Xenophobe or Fanatic Xenophobe
+1.50 Leader of the supremacist or isolationist faction is the ruler
+2.00 Has Xenophobe
+3.00 Has Fanatic Xenophobe
+1.50 Has the Inwards Perfection civic
+1.50 Has the Fanatic Purifiers civic
-0.75 Non-subject Xeno empire has migration acess
-0.75 Allows alien leaders
+3.00 In a defensive war against a xeno empire
+2.00 A xeno empire has enslaved your primary species. Robot Pops excluded
+4.00 A xeno empire has committed genocide on your empire's primary species
+2.00 This pop is not enslaved but a xeno is enslaved on the world
-0.50 This pop is not enslaved and a not enslaved xeno is on the world
+1.50 A Repugnant xeno is on the world

+Governing ethics attraction can only do so much. Your faction attraction and approvals are still largely dictated by the situation and by your actions.

Xenophobia in particular is an ethic with a lot of factors out of your control, especially if you have migration pacts.
The +3 to xenophobe attraction if in a defensive war is something you will always have to deal with, but if you also have migration pacts:
1. Those filthy xenos coming in could be repugnant
2. Your main species can migrate from the signatory of your migration pact to some other slaving asshole out there, or can be captured in war. When that happens it can be enslaved or purged, which grants that up to +6 xenophobe attraction.

 

[Kakotheres]

There's also the 'Encourage Political Thought' Edict which should increase the rate that pops reconsider their personal politics by 50%. It's only available if you're Egalitarian, though.

 

[Wolfgang I]

I suspect that government ethics attraction bugs out at some point if you stack too many bonuses.

I have managed to delete unwanted factions at 0 attraction but only if I did not stack too many bonuses on the government ethics attraction side. My spiritualist faction collapsed completely in the one game in which I stacked all possible spiritualist attraction bonuses.

 

[Urza1234]

I suspect that government ethics attraction bugs out at some point if you stack too many bonuses.

I have managed to delete unwanted factions at 0 attraction but only if I did not stack too many bonuses on the government ethics attraction side. My spiritualist faction collapsed completely in the one game in which I stacked all possible spiritualist attraction bonuses.

Lol, I would be 0% surprised.

 

[TheHolyAsdf]

I have One Vision, Hearts and Minds and Encourage Political Thought all active as well as Black Site starbase modules on every planet. I have not had any wars in the past 50 years, indicated by the xenophobic faction "issue".

There are currently about 50 repugnant pops in my empire which I can get rid of in a few months since I have 10K+ research.

You can also see, even though I have dozens of species. None are subjected to slavery or purging.

Ridiculous as it is, nearly a third of the population on my capital planet (which i did not move) are xenophobic despite the government ethnic attraction bonuses.

 

[Eled the Worm Tamer]

Had this issue as a mega-church, even with +50% spiritualist atraction? still had swathes of people diverging. Either we need a better look under the hood or the system is yet another thing needing closer attention.

 

[permeakra]

I have not had any wars in the past 50 years, indicated by the xenophobic faction "issue".

You actually have two xenophobic factions: isolationist and dominating, the latter is rather minimal.
It's isolationist faction. It doesn't want war and it wants your empire to stay alone and in peace.

If I have to guess and make sense from the situation, than I'd say you somehow managed to avoid spawning prosperity faction and pacifists join the best substitute.

 

[Xaos]

Question. Is there purging going on in the galaxy somewhere?

If there is any purging of pops in the galaxy there normally is a xenophobe attraction boost, even of you are not directly involved in it.

 

[krios41]

I have managed to delete unwanted factions at 0 attraction but only if I did not stack too many bonuses on the government ethics attraction side. My spiritualist faction collapsed completely in the one game in which I stacked all possible spiritualist attraction bonuses.

HOW
Teach me your ways senpai

 

[Wolfgang I]

HOW
Teach me your ways senpai

Lol. It just happened during normal gameplay.
I made sure that the only positive effect was the "active political faction" effect. The wiki is very useful for that. Urza1234 posted that info for xenophobia in this thread for example.
I also try my best to activate effects like "free xenos in empire" for xenophobia or "robotic pops/full AI rights" for the spiritualist faction for example. The wiki has all relevant infos for that too.
Afterwards I activate the suppress faction option which usually reduces attraction to 0. It takes some time but seems to work fine at least for early game conquests. If it does not hit 0 there is not real point to suppressing a faction though.
If there is more than one positive effect on top of the "active political faction" effect it is really difficult though. If you get the "ruler's political faction" modifier you are shit out of luck I think.
Some ethics require an extreme approach though. The xenophile faction takes a huge hit if you allow a purifier to purge some of your founding species pops for example.

The other option that still works is nerve stapling or enslaving all new pops if you conquer a single-species empires. That is usually fast enough to delete a faction before the heresy spreads to other worlds.

 

[Derp]

pop ethics/factions have always been dubious, since the very beginning

 

[TheHolyAsdf]

Question. Is there purging going on in the galaxy somewhere?

If there is any purging of pops in the galaxy there normally is a xenophobe attraction boost, even of you are not directly involved in it.

There has been a number of purges but none of which affect my species as my species have all been modified and outward migration destinations are to allied empires I protect. Even if they were purged or enslaved, it would be indicated so on the government attraction, and even if it there such penalties, the xenophobe government ethnic attraction should increase but has never rose above 1%

 

[TheHolyAsdf]

You actually have two xenophobic factions: isolationist and dominating, the latter is rather minimal.
It's isolationist faction. It doesn't want war and it wants your empire to stay alone and in peace.

If I have to guess and make sense from the situation, than I'd say you somehow managed to avoid spawning prosperity faction and pacifists join the best substitute.

I do have a migration pack with fanatical pacifists, but I would think if there is no matching faction for immigrants, they would be subjected to existing government ethnic attractions or a pacifist faction is spawned when there are at least 5 pops. I have noticed populations can adhere to government ethnics even if there is no political party. You can have materialist pops even if you have no political party for example.

It doesn't make sense a pacifist would then merge with xenophobic factions. If a materialist immigrant came, which would be the closest match? Spiritualist? Authoritarian?

 

[permeakra]

It doesn't make sense a pacifist would then merge with xenophobic factions.

Don't tell me that, tell that the devs.

Spoiler

a quote from the file on isolationist faction

        can_join_faction = {
                is_enslaved = no
                is_shackled_robot = no
                is_being_purged = no
                has_culture_shock = no
                NOT = { has_trait = trait_nerve_stapled }
                OR = {
                        has_ethic = ethic_xenophobe
                        has_ethic = ethic_fanatic_xenophobe
                }
                OR = {
                        NOT = { is_same_species = owner_species }
                        owner = {
                                OR = {
                                        has_ethic = ethic_pacifist
                                        has_ethic = ethic_fanatic_pacifist
                                }
                        }
                }
        }

Again, there are two flavors of xenophobe in Stellaris: the one who wants to dominate (and it IS fairly miserable in your empire) and the one who doesn't trust anyone (and this is what isolationist faction represents). Pacifistic ethos is compatible with isolationistic faction, so yeah.

 

[icon41gimp]

Do you have any kinds of diplomatic agreements with isolationist/xenophobic type empires? Things like guarantees, defensive pacts, research agreements, commercial agreements, etc.

 

[TheHolyAsdf]

Do you have any kinds of diplomatic agreements with isolationist/xenophobic type empires? Things like guarantees, defensive pacts, research agreements, commercial agreements, etc.

Any diplomatic overtures would shift government attraction ethnics and it would be displayed in the screenshot i provided as a positive or negative. Xenophobic governnment attraction ethnic is 0%, if there is anything that would shift the ethnics of my population, it should be listed there and the attraction percentage adjusted rather than silentyly adjusting the valued ideals of my people. If there are invisible modifier favouring xenophobia, the government ethnic attraction is not representative of what it should be.

 

[TheHolyAsdf]

Don't tell me that, tell that the devs.
a quote from the file on isolationist faction.

Enlightening. But also quite disappointing this is so.

 

[krios41]

Lol. It just happened during normal gameplay.
I made sure that the only positive effect was the "active political faction" effect. The wiki is very useful for that. Urza1234 posted that info for xenophobia in this thread for example.
I also try my best to activate effects like "free xenos in empire" for xenophobia or "robotic pops/full AI rights" for the spiritualist faction for example. The wiki has all relevant infos for that too.
Afterwards I activate the suppress faction option which usually reduces attraction to 0. It takes some time but seems to work fine at least for early game conquests. If it does not hit 0 there is not real point to suppressing a faction though.
If there is more than one positive effect on top of the "active political faction" effect it is really difficult though. If you get the "ruler's political faction" modifier you are shit out of luck I think.
Some ethics require an extreme approach though. The xenophile faction takes a huge hit if you allow a purifier to purge some of your founding species pops for example.

The other option that still works is nerve stapling or enslaving all new pops if you conquer a single-species empires. That is usually fast enough to delete a faction before the heresy spreads to other worlds.

i never can reduce any faction to 0 for some reason, even after supressing a faction and making sure there are no atraction effects besides the faction itself. Real, realy anoying.
I hope the devs look at factions and ethics once again.
How it is might be WAD, but it sure as hell doesn't fucking feel like it as stacking empire faction atraction never seems to have any effect. I can be running hearts and minds for hundreds of years without it havig any sort of noticable imapct on the ethics within my empire. The 100% gov Ethics atraction and 100% Ethics shift chance should have an enormous impact right?